Welcome to DealerRefresh Forums!

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking thelink above. You may have to Register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

How many leads can an Internet Manager handle, effectively?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by ddavis, Oct 1, 2011.

  1. ddavis

    ddavis Sr. Refresher

    First Name:
    Doug
    Company:
    Retired
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Posts
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    465
    Location:
    Arlington, Texas
    I responded to a post that raised this question. I was looking at some data, that dates back a few years. It is dated, and I would like to know what some of the DealerRefresh people think. It makes some assumptions, that many might feel are unrealistic but it addresses the growing workload of an ISM as he enters into the Internet department, with a low (80) lead count. Please challenge the assumptions as I really would like to see some input. In the past, I have based my staffing on this logic. We worked cradle to grave and all Internet phone calls coming to ISMs.

    New ISM – Month First Month
    Assumptions:
    • 80 New Leads
    • 15% are Bad
    • 10% are Sold
    If we make contact once every 3 days, this requires 22 phone calls per day with 25 working days. 61 Leads will carry over to the next month.

    New ISM – Month #2
    Assumptions:
    • 80 New Leads
    • 15% are Bad
    • 10% are Sold
    • 61 Carry Overs (25% Buy elsewhere, 5% Sold, 20% No Response)
    If we make contact once every 3 days, this requires 43 calls per day with 25 working days.
    95 leads will carry over to the next month.

    New ISM – Month #3
    Assumptions:
    • 80 New Leads
    • 15% are Bad
    • 10% are Sold
    • 95 Carry Overs (25% Buy elsewhere, 5% Sold, 20% No Response)
    If we make contact once every 3 days, this requires 59 calls per day with 25 working days.
    115 leads will carry over to the next month.

    Whats the contempory wisdom on this?
    • Like Like x 1
  2. kcar

    kcar Sr. Refresher

    First Name:
    B
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Posts
    427
    Likes Received:
    32
    200/month is key; with 250/month is pushing but doable per Internet Manger.
  3. yagoparamo

    yagoparamo Sr. Refresher

    First Name:
    Yago
    Company:
    PGIAUTO.COM
    Twitter:
    yagoparamo
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Posts
    1,597
    Likes Received:
    366
    Location:
    Seattle
    Reverse the numbers; if we take that the average person closes 10% of the leads considering all lead quality to be equal (and that perhaps my % is correct), how many sales can a person handle a month? 20 units? Then the person should get 200 leads/month.

    Of course, if these are mosthly used, perhaps can handle more. If majority are new, perhaps can handle less since these require more delivery time.

    If the person is an excellent closer, with an assistant (what then is called "the internet departmet") maybe they can handle a lot more and keep % closing in good terms.
  4. ddavis

    ddavis Sr. Refresher

    First Name:
    Doug
    Company:
    Retired
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Posts
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    465
    Location:
    Arlington, Texas
    If you look at the numbers, the second month takes in an assumption of a 15% closing ratio. It is 10% of that months leads plus 5% of the previous. ISMs will take all the leads that you will throw at them but cherry pick. Plug in 200 leads per month and consider the amount of phone calls after 90 days. At my last store, my top guy sold 99 cars, in a quarter, and I never allowed the lead count, on any ISM, to exceed 100.

    I kept an eye on the ROI report and eliminated any lead source that was low performing. We maintained a closing ratio (sales as a percentage of leads) above 15%. How many calls to you expect your ISMs to make?
  5. Jeff Kershner

    Jeff Kershner Founder Staff Member

    First Name:
    Jeff
    Company:
    DealerRefresh
    Twitter:
    dealerrefresh
    Joined:
    May 1, 2005
    Posts
    2,358
    Likes Received:
    478
    Location:
    Maryland
    Yago and Kkar - you guys are smoking crack. 200 leads a month? Are you serious??

    Doug, you have it mapped right for IMS's that are cradle to grave.

    I recommend assigning 70-80 leads per ISM.
    15% closing ratio on forum filled internet leads is the goal
    Your carry over percentage is close to what I measure out as well.

    You give an ISM anymore that 100 a leads a month and you're going to lose sales. Sales people are going to cherry pick leads no matter what you do, throw 200 leads at'm and in their mind, there's no need for follow-up. They'll wait for a fresh lead / low hanging fruit before they go back and work leads from the previous week and previous month.

    My job as director of marketing is to get the best possible leads for my team. If I'm going to allocate them 70-80 leads a month, I'm going to get them the best 70-80 leads I can possibly get.

    Basing sales and lead count on a 10% closing ratio is causing some of this confusion. Sales people need to be help to a 15% closing ratio - UNLESS you have crap leads. And again, then it's time to rework your lead mix and marketing budget to go after acquiring better leads.

    Be sure your team has the right tools an resources for great follow-up. Throw in a Lead to Show tool while you're it.
    • Like Like x 3
  6. CAORYAN

    CAORYAN Sr. Refresher

    First Name:
    Ryan
    Company:
    Black Book USA
    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Posts
    354
    Likes Received:
    10
    Kershner,

    You wouldn't hire me or any ISM I know with 80 leads. Wisdom will tell you the dealer expects you to sell 8 to 10 cars and I need to sell 20-25 to make the money I want. If you want average ISM's your method works. If that same internet manager can take ups and phone calls 80 is fine. I have sold 25 cars a month off 80 internet "Email" leads and phone ups.

    No way I would work somewhere that wanted me to sell 8 to 10 cars a month. Give people room for greatness but don't overwhelm them.

    I think 180 to 215 is fine. If you have the right follow up system (Some automated) and the right people. If you hire a BDC type 80 is fine if you hire a car guy who knows what he is doing you have to give him more.

    Just my two cents
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Jeff Kershner

    Jeff Kershner Founder Staff Member

    First Name:
    Jeff
    Company:
    DealerRefresh
    Twitter:
    dealerrefresh
    Joined:
    May 1, 2005
    Posts
    2,358
    Likes Received:
    478
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ryan, when you would see the resources and tools I provide my dealers (though most don't use) - you would love to be an ISM for one of my Nissan dealer.

    I have ISM's receiving 80 leads and selling 15-20plus cars a month.

    You're forgetting..

    80 Leads the first month. A good 40-50 leads from the previous month on top of the 80 fresh leads from this month. The next month your getting another 80 fresh leads, plus 40-50 leads from the previous month and another 20-30 active leads from 2 months before.

    Month 3, you're sitting on 150-170 active leads.

    When you throw 200 plus leads a month to someone, they will not nor would they have the time to work all the leads effectively.

    My ISM's are not restricted from taking phone ups. They're usually our best performers on the phone.

    My cradle to grave ISM's at my Nissan dealer sell more cars and make more money that the traditional floor every month.
    • Like Like x 2
  8. ddavis

    ddavis Sr. Refresher

    First Name:
    Doug
    Company:
    Retired
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Posts
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    465
    Location:
    Arlington, Texas
    I expected some people to suggest 120, 125 or even 130. I never expected 180 or more.

    I increased ISMs when an additional man/woman would drop us back to about 80 leads/each. The goal should be to close atleast 10% of current leads and 8 to 12% of the bank.

    Jeff has it right with: They'll wait for a fresh lead / low hanging fruit before they go back and work leads.

    CAORYN,
    my team sold 70% of new and used car sales and made good money. Everyone wanted to be in the Internet department and the store considered it a promotion. An ISM got written up if you sold under 15 cars. We didn't have the resources to give that position to a marginal salesperson.

    We didn't purchase leads, from any source, and my people had confidence that any lead had a great chance of being sold.
    • Like Like x 1
  9. yagoparamo

    yagoparamo Sr. Refresher

    First Name:
    Yago
    Company:
    PGIAUTO.COM
    Twitter:
    yagoparamo
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Posts
    1,597
    Likes Received:
    366
    Location:
    Seattle


    Jeff,

    If you look at my comment--and perhaps I didnt explain well enough--I said things like:

    1) Considering an average of 10% closing ratio
    2) That all leads are equal
    3) etc

    You are very unique, with a lot to background on this, with very finetuned lead sources, etc.

    I was more or less talking about the average dealer where they hire one guy and put him in a room with a computer to work with the leads the dealer already gets.
  10. ajholland

    ajholland Refresher

    First Name:
    Aaron
    Company:
    Comcast Spotlight
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2009
    Posts
    171
    Likes Received:
    11
    We are trying something a little different at a couple of my stores. Our Internet Manager's receive about 150-175 leads per month, but those leads are transfered to our BDC after 45 days for long term follow up. They don't seem to have a problem staying after them aggressively and we still have solid long term follow up out to about 180 days.
    • Like Like x 1
  11. ddavis

    ddavis Sr. Refresher

    First Name:
    Doug
    Company:
    Retired
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Posts
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    465
    Location:
    Arlington, Texas
    I have never worked in a store that had a BDC for sales. My understanding is that they are hourly people. I had a lot of confidence in our ISMs. I also worked very hard to make sure that the leads were high quality. I wanted the best people in the store working my leads but I didn't want them overwhelmed to the point where they cherry picked.

    Nobody has answered the question of how many phone calls to you expect your ISMs to make on a daily basis? How do you confirm it?
  12. yagoparamo

    yagoparamo Sr. Refresher

    First Name:
    Yago
    Company:
    PGIAUTO.COM
    Twitter:
    yagoparamo
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Posts
    1,597
    Likes Received:
    366
    Location:
    Seattle
    It depends; a normal person or Jeff Keshner with 3 arms and 3 ears?
  13. ddavis

    ddavis Sr. Refresher

    First Name:
    Doug
    Company:
    Retired
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Posts
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    465
    Location:
    Arlington, Texas
    jeff-avatar1.jpg

    I hadn't noticed but there does seem to be a lot of shading on the right side of the picture.
    • Like Like x 1
  14. JoePistell

    JoePistell Super Moderator

    First Name:
    Joe
    Company:
    Dealer.com
    Twitter:
    JoePistell
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2009
    Posts
    2,879
    Likes Received:
    849
    Location:
    Vermont
    What a fantastic thread! TY DD for starting it!

    Question:
    I sell used cars. If you sold 100% used cars, would your numbers change?
    --# Leads per ISM
    --Closing Ratio Goals
  15. JoePistell

    JoePistell Super Moderator

    First Name:
    Joe
    Company:
    Dealer.com
    Twitter:
    JoePistell
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2009
    Posts
    2,879
    Likes Received:
    849
    Location:
    Vermont
    Email Leads with Phone Numbers vs. Leads with out phone numbers...

    Because our team is so poor at working emails, I make phone numbers required on our forms. I know if I turn that feature off, the flood gates will open (lead counts will rise). I also know that those people that agreed to include their phone number will opt out if given the chance. This will negatively impact our current sales flow.


    What are your thoughts and findings on this issue?
  16. jeremys

    jeremys Noob

    First Name:
    jeremy
    Company:
    Wind Gap Chevrolet Buick
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2010
    Posts
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    We require name, phone #, and email. Not sure if that's overkill or not, but I believe the number of quality leads have gone up. There are still of course the fake names, numbers and emails here and there, But if someone is serious about it, they'll usually at least give some of the correct information. I don't have exact numbers in front of me, but that's how it seems to be once we implemented required fields opposed to having the flood gates open.
  17. ddavis

    ddavis Sr. Refresher

    First Name:
    Doug
    Company:
    Retired
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Posts
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    465
    Location:
    Arlington, Texas
    I found it easier to move the needle on new cars. Many dealers do a much better job at marketing their used cars.

    Joe, you took a much easier question (lead counts) and turned it into a much more difficult one.

    Do we want to eliminate potential customers because we feel they are are low percentage? Are your ISMs really doing a poor job with emails or are phone calls more effective? Will serious customers include a phone number, if required? Will the same customer not include the phone number if it's not necessary? This would turn a great lead into a marginal one.
  18. ddavis

    ddavis Sr. Refresher

    First Name:
    Doug
    Company:
    Retired
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Posts
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    465
    Location:
    Arlington, Texas
    As we improved the marketing on our website and third party sites, our lead counts increased. We had more issues with people, desks, computers and phones. I opted for quality leads.
  19. colson

    colson Noob

    First Name:
    Chris
    Company:
    PhoneTAP
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Posts
    24
    Likes Received:
    3
    In my stores the Internet Department handle all inbound Internet sourced calls and emails. As far as leads go we shoot for 60-80 leads per ISM, supplemented with calls. I think JK is spot on. I do have a couple people who have shown, month in month out, an abbility to close at a higher rate and we're able to compensate them with more opportunities than some of our lower performing ISMs.

    We've now gotten away from 3rd party leads altogether, and are mixing in AutoAlert opportunities to supplement. So far so good. With internet leads, one thing is for sure..."Less is more."
  20. Alex Snyder

    Alex Snyder Administrator Staff Member

    First Name:
    Alex
    Company:
    DealerRefresh
    Twitter:
    axsnyder
    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    Posts
    1,844
    Likes Received:
    343
    Location:
    Vermont
    There are two big things not being discussed here:

    1. Leadership skills
    2. Hiring skills
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page