- Dec 30, 2009
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- Yago
The Internet director IS the sales manager of the Internet area of the biz, or else what the h... do you manage and what do you manage it for?
Salary for Internet Sales Manager or Director
- Thread starter Alex Snyder
- Start date
The Internet director IS the sales manager of the Internet area of the biz, or else what the h... do you manage and what do you manage it for?
New Car Sales Manager? Sales Managers are dime a dozen. For the most part, they are the laziest, most overpaid people in a dealership. Hell, buy a monkey and put a note in it's mouth.
Here is a little reality. Most stores take the lowest ranking Sales Manager or Assistant Sales Manager and make him the the Internet Director. He gets the gig because nobody else wants it.
Lets compare this to a guy that that manages 8 or 9 cradle to grave ISMs. The sales floor has 18 sales associates. There are three new car managers and two used. The Internet department represents 65-70% of the stores sales with an average front and back gross that is higher than the floor. This is a metro store with sales of about 300 units.
Do you seriously think this guy is going to work for the average Sales Manager's pay? I can name several people that fit this profile.
The only other guy that approaches the workload and expertise, in a dealership, is the Used Car Director.
Here is a little reality. Most stores take the lowest ranking Sales Manager or Assistant Sales Manager and make him the the Internet Director. He gets the gig because nobody else wants it.
Lets compare this to a guy that that manages 8 or 9 cradle to grave ISMs. The sales floor has 18 sales associates. There are three new car managers and two used. The Internet department represents 65-70% of the stores sales with an average front and back gross that is higher than the floor. This is a metro store with sales of about 300 units.
Do you seriously think this guy is going to work for the average Sales Manager's pay? I can name several people that fit this profile.
The only other guy that approaches the workload and expertise, in a dealership, is the Used Car Director.
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One of my small dealer clients (Sales Approx 80 units per/mo) has this approach. (1) Internet Manager (1) BDC Director (1) Sales Manager. The Internet Managers job is to get leads. The BDC Directors job is to get them in the door. The Sales Managers job is to sell them. Internet Manager is paid 1/2 of what the other two make, but he works about 1/2 the hours. They don't have an Internet Department (ISM's). All the leads are divided up between the sales dept. (what difference does it make anyways, most walk ins are Internet leads anyways!) It works for them, as they normally turn over 60% of the inventory each month.
Well I'm not even sure what my title really is.
I was the UC Manager at one of our stores, and couldn't stand the people I was working with and was leaving, so now I am doing this...
I image and write descriptions of the used cars at 3 of our stores.
I price and monitor pricing of our inventory (150 cars approx)
I go to the auctions and do buying, not all, but a fair amount
I handle most of our Smart Auction sales
I keep our inventory online current
I do a bit of the appraising
I often go to auctions to rep cars we're selling
I watch the inventory in ADP and delete stuff
Oh and a bunch of little other things.. deal with transportation, wholesale billouts, etc.
I make 90% of what I was making as a used car manager and I don't work nights and weekends.
I was the UC Manager at one of our stores, and couldn't stand the people I was working with and was leaving, so now I am doing this...
I image and write descriptions of the used cars at 3 of our stores.
I price and monitor pricing of our inventory (150 cars approx)
I go to the auctions and do buying, not all, but a fair amount
I handle most of our Smart Auction sales
I keep our inventory online current
I do a bit of the appraising
I often go to auctions to rep cars we're selling
I watch the inventory in ADP and delete stuff
Oh and a bunch of little other things.. deal with transportation, wholesale billouts, etc.
I make 90% of what I was making as a used car manager and I don't work nights and weekends.
I went back through this thread. After reading ten pages, I came back to Joe's comment.
Putting dealerships into three categories, we have the market leaders, the average and the bottom. If we assume that every dealership has an internet department, two thirds of these people are working for marginal stores. If they are working for the bottom third, you are working for a loser. In an interview, 100% of the DPs out there are going to tell you that they want to get aggressive and sell more cars. There is a reason why these stores are marginal. Key to being a market leader is good people. Market leaders understand this and pay. Most of the rest, don't.
This thread, found on google, made me registered just to reply. I only spent two years in the car business, but I dont think it takes a genius to figure out how much pay should be.
"As much as possible" is the clear answer. And for the owner, probably "As little as possible".
Your job is to make as much as possible, and his is to pay you as little as possible without making you look for employment elsewhere. The market decides what that is, and somewhere in the middle of all that is what we call 'competitive' for arguments sake and once we see a payplan thats competitive with other dealerships in your region, you probably take it and work hard to make the best of it.
Considering sales is virtually all commission based, I would think most SALES jobs pay commission and the more you sell the more you make. Management, real management, is something different that honestly seems to barely exist at most dealerships. But thats fine. It is what it is. I cant speak for that pay plan.
HOWEVER, all the people talking about all the tasks they do aside from sales, all the stuff they 'handle' and 'manage' and 'start' and 'do' please understand that you are completing 'TASKS' which is very different than sales. It just is. If you learned how to do something, and now do it weekly, and when the task is done means that its done to about the same level of competence that anyone would expect, you've turned yourself into someone doing average clerical work. I hope they pay you well for it. But it seems they dont.
I assume you started working at a dealership because sales made a decent commission. And you stayed because you were half decent at it. And then somehow someone asked you to handle the inventory, and pictures, and ads, and stickers? And you said yes? For an extra $1500? Jesus christ, could you just focus and sell a few more cars? And if you tell me, "Well, we have a lot of down time at my dealership" then I honestly want to kick you in the ass because you seem to not understand how dealerships even work at all. You may think you had a free hour in the morning, except now that youre away from the phone you missed the easy morning phone up. You missed the service customer that needs a new car that service just hands to the one salesperson they see. You didnt call your walkins from yesterday first thing the morning but that other guy down the street did so they bought at 4pm.
If you want to be an IT guy, be an IT guy. If you want to post ads, post ads. But if you sell cars, sell cars. I assure you the market places values a salesman better than an 'ad poster' or a pseudo-manager or director of 5 people. Or an IT guy with one mini client.
If you still depend on 'selling cars' to make any of your income, focus on selling cars and NOTHING else. Im pretty sure if you look closely it pays rather well. You just need to focus and be the best at something that your ownership probably still pays well: the salespeople.
"As much as possible" is the clear answer. And for the owner, probably "As little as possible".
Your job is to make as much as possible, and his is to pay you as little as possible without making you look for employment elsewhere. The market decides what that is, and somewhere in the middle of all that is what we call 'competitive' for arguments sake and once we see a payplan thats competitive with other dealerships in your region, you probably take it and work hard to make the best of it.
Considering sales is virtually all commission based, I would think most SALES jobs pay commission and the more you sell the more you make. Management, real management, is something different that honestly seems to barely exist at most dealerships. But thats fine. It is what it is. I cant speak for that pay plan.
HOWEVER, all the people talking about all the tasks they do aside from sales, all the stuff they 'handle' and 'manage' and 'start' and 'do' please understand that you are completing 'TASKS' which is very different than sales. It just is. If you learned how to do something, and now do it weekly, and when the task is done means that its done to about the same level of competence that anyone would expect, you've turned yourself into someone doing average clerical work. I hope they pay you well for it. But it seems they dont.
I assume you started working at a dealership because sales made a decent commission. And you stayed because you were half decent at it. And then somehow someone asked you to handle the inventory, and pictures, and ads, and stickers? And you said yes? For an extra $1500? Jesus christ, could you just focus and sell a few more cars? And if you tell me, "Well, we have a lot of down time at my dealership" then I honestly want to kick you in the ass because you seem to not understand how dealerships even work at all. You may think you had a free hour in the morning, except now that youre away from the phone you missed the easy morning phone up. You missed the service customer that needs a new car that service just hands to the one salesperson they see. You didnt call your walkins from yesterday first thing the morning but that other guy down the street did so they bought at 4pm.
If you want to be an IT guy, be an IT guy. If you want to post ads, post ads. But if you sell cars, sell cars. I assure you the market places values a salesman better than an 'ad poster' or a pseudo-manager or director of 5 people. Or an IT guy with one mini client.
If you still depend on 'selling cars' to make any of your income, focus on selling cars and NOTHING else. Im pretty sure if you look closely it pays rather well. You just need to focus and be the best at something that your ownership probably still pays well: the salespeople.
- Apr 28, 2009
- 1,163
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- Jerry
- Mar 6, 2012
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- Jeffery
I spoke to a Marketing Manager today who was to reapply for his position on Monday for a new boss. We spoke about it a bit. He had a terrific advertising background and a real grip on measuring digital vs (best he could, traditional). He seemed to do his job diligently with nobody watching. A team player. Was obvious.
He also got "ordered" alot..."DO SOME RADIO (to fix a problem)" so e could not be a "manager" and show a result to get judged by. If a GSM was ordered to not take a deal below $3000 would volume be his fault? (good or bad). What if the owner ordered below invoice hang tags, would the GSM be accountable for gross? (If he decided himself, then yes I say)
His new boss did not know the internet at all so he has a job to do to teach hat before he starts his selling (of self) job.
I suggested that he challenge to have the boss challenge him...on volume and cost per sold vehicle ad spend. And to have a conversation to discover the bosses feelings about things like say, Units In Operation for the svc dept and "Branding" which may not be measured this month. (who's car the guys in little league will drive in 5 years)
Whatever the dollar amount a Digital Marketing manager makes, i think it has to be attached to volume and efficiency. And let the Marketing manager have permission to risk and fail and to make it his baby. Like a manager!
Remember in America you can never be under or over paid. You can always look for more or do your own deal and your boss can always try to find someone better for less. So we audition for our jobs every day and the boss does the same if we make it worth it for them! My Dad always said "you're even every payday. No one owes anyone after that. Make sure your boss feels like he's stealing you (by working hard)."
Jeff Sterns
VP of Sales & Business Development
CarChat24
[email protected]
Twitter: @JeffCarChat24
Toll Free: (800) 510-7567 ext 702
Mobile: 727-638-0069
Fax: 800-430-1535
www.CarChat24.com
"Helping car dealers sell more!"
He also got "ordered" alot..."DO SOME RADIO (to fix a problem)" so e could not be a "manager" and show a result to get judged by. If a GSM was ordered to not take a deal below $3000 would volume be his fault? (good or bad). What if the owner ordered below invoice hang tags, would the GSM be accountable for gross? (If he decided himself, then yes I say)
His new boss did not know the internet at all so he has a job to do to teach hat before he starts his selling (of self) job.
I suggested that he challenge to have the boss challenge him...on volume and cost per sold vehicle ad spend. And to have a conversation to discover the bosses feelings about things like say, Units In Operation for the svc dept and "Branding" which may not be measured this month. (who's car the guys in little league will drive in 5 years)
Whatever the dollar amount a Digital Marketing manager makes, i think it has to be attached to volume and efficiency. And let the Marketing manager have permission to risk and fail and to make it his baby. Like a manager!
Remember in America you can never be under or over paid. You can always look for more or do your own deal and your boss can always try to find someone better for less. So we audition for our jobs every day and the boss does the same if we make it worth it for them! My Dad always said "you're even every payday. No one owes anyone after that. Make sure your boss feels like he's stealing you (by working hard)."
Jeff Sterns
VP of Sales & Business Development
CarChat24
[email protected]
Twitter: @JeffCarChat24
Toll Free: (800) 510-7567 ext 702
Mobile: 727-638-0069
Fax: 800-430-1535
www.CarChat24.com
"Helping car dealers sell more!"
- Sep 5, 2011
- 8
- 0
- First Name
- Dan
Chris,
Is the short answer to the pay plan equation...15% of the Bottom Line Delta?
Dan Mercurio
Is the short answer to the pay plan equation...15% of the Bottom Line Delta?
Dan Mercurio
- Sep 5, 2011
- 8
- 0
- First Name
- Dan
I couldn't agree more. That said; I would like to offer some tips based on my successes and failures to not only get paid fair, but to provide tangible value to the dealership and/or upper management. I also hope some of the decision makers on this position read this as well...
Disclaimer: Being that there are single point, mega groups and director level positions, please take this as a guide, not the gospel. Your mileage may vary, but the key points hold true in my opinion. I will also try to be detailed, as I don't want things taken out of context, but it may be a long read.
Step 1: Define
Before even talking about pay, you need to understand what they (meaning the dealer or executive management) think the position entails. Even if you already have this position, you need to make time to address these questions, if you haven't done so already:
To the last point especially; most dealers don't know. They know they need the position, but typically haven't thought about these questions, or how to pay you. You have to get buy-in and a commitment that isn't the "let's just put our toes in the water" approach or the "we will automatically sell X amount of vehicles with you here" philosophy.
- Do you have an existing CRM/ILM? If so, does it give you the tools to succeed? If not, can you be a part of the process to bring one in?
- Do you have the ability to bring on third party vendors, and/or purchase leads? If so, what is the budget to do so?
- Is the Internet considered advertising for ROI purposes?
- Is an Internet sale one that comes from e-mail only, or do phone calls count, walk ins count. I could spend a day on this alone, but the bottom line is that if you don't measure success the same way, you are doomed to fail.
- Are you considered Sales, Marketing or a hybrid with a dash of IT thrown in?
Step 2: Define current state
Before you take the Internet/e-commerce/whatever position over, I urge you to do your homework. Every time I come into a dealer group as a Internet Director/Operations Manager I immediately try to determine the following:
If you don't define current state, you can't and more importantly they can't appreciate successes or opportunities. You and your new boss HAVE to agree on current state before talking about pay or expectations. You can't know where you are going unless you know where you have been.
- How much is currently being spent on advertising and the results (historical ROI)?
- What % of your advertising budget is going to current Internet advertising and what are the results, including but not limited to; round deal gross, conversion ratio, lead response times and personnel costs?
- At director level I would definitely look at inventory turns, old age inventory, parts sales and even CSI. Also, how much is being spent on CRM, ILM, Websites, etc.
Step 3: Manage expectations
Take the information above and determine the lowest hanging fruit. If you have no idea, then do your research or come to a place like DR for help. Typically, it is overall advertising ROI and/or the allocation of those funds. Some dealers will tell you this is none of your business. If Internet is advertising (see above) it IS your business! Try to determine how many resources you have at your disposal to get the desired expectations without discussing specific results. The whole purpose of this step is to allow you to break down preconceived, ill founded notions and replace them with a willingness to accept current, tangible and realistic data.
Caution: If you allow your employer to have unrealistic expectations with no concept of what a good job looks like, you won't be happy with your pay plan
Step 4: Discuss value
Once you are confident with "current state" condense it into a one page (yes, one page) sheet that you review in person with your employer. Show/highlight areas you feel you can effect, what the difference in revenue would be and what it would take to do so. By talking bottom line, you speak their language. Again, this doesn't apply to everyone or every situation, but I will give you some examples:
Now discuss non-revenue producing things that you need to do in order to make this happen. Maintaining a website with specials, SEO, photo teams etc is a lot of work that produces "debatable" results. I saw that someone else mentioned existing and prior customers and whether or not they should be counted; this to is "debatable".
- If we reduced overall advertising expense by 10-20% and produced the same results, what would that do to the bottom line?
- If we increased your existing Internet sales from x to y with a per copy average of Z, but with an increase of expenses of (insert letter here) how much would that do to the bottom line?
- If we increased volume to get to retro monies, or higher tier retro monies, what would that do to the dealership?
- You get the idea.
Stay away from opinions or grey area as much as possible. Arm yourself with data and speak to things as a whole, not individual pieces. By hiring me for this position, you will see improvement in these areas overall. You would be surprised at how much revenue you helped produce that doesn't get factored in.
Step 5: Payplan
Now that they know based on current state and realistic forecasting what you can do for them they should be able to provide you with an incentive based payplan. Your potential pay should equal a % of the profit generated after expenses similar to finance or a GM's net/net pay plan commission. Depending on other non-revenue producing responsibilities, this may or may not include the base pay.
Examples:
If you can generate and/or save the company $20k per month based on your findings you should expect pay around $3000 a month total.
If you are selling an additional 50 vehicles per month at $2500 round deal, you are putting up $125k per month. If it costed you $60k to do this, including personnel, you should make around $10k per month.
The bottom line is that you need to both be speaking the same language. Identify once and for all what defines a lead and a sale. On some things you may have to agree to disagree, but once you understand the expectations, you must be able to show and prove (which means a lot of continual measuring) that you are getting the desired results. A good CRM will make life a lot easier!
Good luck and please let me know if I can help!
Chris Hawley
Christopher Hawley | LinkedIn
Chris,
Is the short answer to the pay plan equation...15% of the Bottom Line Delta?
Dan Mercurio
