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Clarification:
I'm not calling Joe a liar or saying that he supports lying. While we may see some things differently, I sincerely respect his thoughts and opinions.
I'm not calling Joe a liar or saying that he supports lying. While we may see some things differently, I sincerely respect his thoughts and opinions.
- Jan 8, 2013
- 9
- 1
- First Name
- gilbert
Joe,
You were the one who first drew the comparison to sporting goods stores, I just tried to share the difference between honest advertising and what I feel is dishonest, intentionally deceptive advertising.
You are absolutely right, "Golf Galaxy" (it was Golfsmith, in case anybody is wondering) does not face those same challenges. But how does a loss-leader ad address any of those issues in our business? If all else is equal, I would rather be forthright and transparent in my advertising/marketing efforts.
And by the way, speaking of buying experiences, I got a THOROUGH product presentation and demonstration/"test-drive," by a commissioned salesperson, who asked qualifying questions like "what's your handicap?" "can you describe your typical ball-flight?" "what is more important to you, distance or accuracy off the tee?" etc. He tailored his presentation in response to my answers. After my test-drive he closed me by asking "do you need new spikes for the season, or just the club today?" I almost fell over. He then explained their financing options, including a no payments/zero-interest til 2009 program. He asked whether I had any old equipment I wanted to trade in, then explained how their trade-in program worked, in case I wanted to take advantage of it next season and get a new driver again (gotta have the latest technology, you know?!?!??!). He showed me their club repair/customization department, just in case. He explained the manufacturer's warranty, and the store's return/exchange policies. When he learned I was in business for myself, he made sure to tell me all about their "business solutions" program. All told, he spent well over an hour with me, for what I can only assume was a pretty measly commission on one golf club.
How many of the customers at your dealership get this kind of service? If it's a lot of them, great job!!! If yours is more representative of the norm, customers are probably still getting the old "if I could, would ya?" buying experience. It's time to stop blaming the customers for our woes. The argument that "customers only try to negotiate for cars" is our own fault!!! Until the whole Monroney debacle, autos were the only consumer product that could get away with not carrying a price tag! And we wonder why customers don't trust us? Customers upside down? Whose fault is that? Our need to sell 17 million new cars a year has driven us to deceptively low price advertising, incentivizing customers to trade more often than they ever have before. Need to sell more cars? Just find a bank that will do 96 month loans, don't worry, none of your customers will be upside down when they want to trade in 3 years. Shaun had it right, the car buying process is an emotional process, but our advertising and sales processes evoke the wrong emotions.
You were the one who first drew the comparison to sporting goods stores, I just tried to share the difference between honest advertising and what I feel is dishonest, intentionally deceptive advertising.
You are absolutely right, "Golf Galaxy" (it was Golfsmith, in case anybody is wondering) does not face those same challenges. But how does a loss-leader ad address any of those issues in our business? If all else is equal, I would rather be forthright and transparent in my advertising/marketing efforts.
And by the way, speaking of buying experiences, I got a THOROUGH product presentation and demonstration/"test-drive," by a commissioned salesperson, who asked qualifying questions like "what's your handicap?" "can you describe your typical ball-flight?" "what is more important to you, distance or accuracy off the tee?" etc. He tailored his presentation in response to my answers. After my test-drive he closed me by asking "do you need new spikes for the season, or just the club today?" I almost fell over. He then explained their financing options, including a no payments/zero-interest til 2009 program. He asked whether I had any old equipment I wanted to trade in, then explained how their trade-in program worked, in case I wanted to take advantage of it next season and get a new driver again (gotta have the latest technology, you know?!?!??!). He showed me their club repair/customization department, just in case. He explained the manufacturer's warranty, and the store's return/exchange policies. When he learned I was in business for myself, he made sure to tell me all about their "business solutions" program. All told, he spent well over an hour with me, for what I can only assume was a pretty measly commission on one golf club.
How many of the customers at your dealership get this kind of service? If it's a lot of them, great job!!! If yours is more representative of the norm, customers are probably still getting the old "if I could, would ya?" buying experience. It's time to stop blaming the customers for our woes. The argument that "customers only try to negotiate for cars" is our own fault!!! Until the whole Monroney debacle, autos were the only consumer product that could get away with not carrying a price tag! And we wonder why customers don't trust us? Customers upside down? Whose fault is that? Our need to sell 17 million new cars a year has driven us to deceptively low price advertising, incentivizing customers to trade more often than they ever have before. Need to sell more cars? Just find a bank that will do 96 month loans, don't worry, none of your customers will be upside down when they want to trade in 3 years. Shaun had it right, the car buying process is an emotional process, but our advertising and sales processes evoke the wrong emotions.
And, I would not call Joe a liar either. As I said before, I think he is a hugely intelligent person, with some great ideas.
If it seems I am being a bit combative over the golf store/car dealership comparison, it is only because I have been making the comparisons in my head since my visit last weekend, and this thread gave me the perfect avenue for venting.
Keep up the good work Joe, Shaun, and everyone else!
If it seems I am being a bit combative over the golf store/car dealership comparison, it is only because I have been making the comparisons in my head since my visit last weekend, and this thread gave me the perfect avenue for venting.
Keep up the good work Joe, Shaun, and everyone else!
What consumers want is:
1. Their color, options, in stock, forget dealer trade, too long.
2. Invoice pricing from first quote request
3. The quickest transaction time possible
4. 0% interest
Cars have become commoditized, zero percent has become expected, invoice pricing is available to everyone all the time. If you can't give this to them, chances are someone else will, it's only a couple more calls away.
1. Their color, options, in stock, forget dealer trade, too long.
2. Invoice pricing from first quote request
3. The quickest transaction time possible
4. 0% interest
Cars have become commoditized, zero percent has become expected, invoice pricing is available to everyone all the time. If you can't give this to them, chances are someone else will, it's only a couple more calls away.
I dunno, I guess I like to think each customer is a little different and what might appeal to one won't appeal to another. Lucky for the consumer they have about 1 kazillion choices. When I look at my own personal buying habits it seems I like to buy from people that are like me in a way. They might be completely different but they have some way of connecting to me. Most folks are creatures of habit and like to do things in a pattern, I attended Ford training back in the late 90's and they use to suggest Mirror and Match the folks your speaking with, (meaning adjust to the speed and go at their pace), I thought it made sense? My point would be, I think consumers want somebody compatible with them and its our job to figure out what that might be and keep it flowing within a general buying process that treats them with respect. I know not all customers will go along with our process(or any process for that matter) and after trying to adjust it to their style it still doesn't work for that one customer, sometimes you have to chalk it up to a learning experience and get back to the other 90%.
@the marketing ethics group
tell the manufactures to stop first, I think I know where the Dealers learned it. (and it wasn't from the G-Pod) Ha ha I made funny <
@the marketing ethics group
tell the manufactures to stop first, I think I know where the Dealers learned it. (and it wasn't from the G-Pod) Ha ha I made funny <
- May 1, 2005
- 5,999
- 1,914
- Awards
- 12
- First Name
- Jeff
It's very interesting to read both sides of the coin here. The best part is that everyone keeps an open mind that has total respect for each others opinion. Do you know how rare that is in the blogosphere?
Joey Stivic "In any case, the factory calls at the end of the month for your sales numbers, not your CSI." - True that! (my ghettoness, just for Trev)
Frank "zero percent has become expected" - You can blame GM, Ford and Chrysler for that crap!
Frank "invoice pricing is available to everyone all the time" - We can blame the manufactures for that.
Brian "I think consumers want somebody compatible with them and its our job to figure out what that might be and keep it flowing within a general buying process that treats them with respect." - That's salesmen ship. (yes you did make a funny)
Are you salesman or an order taker? Some people want to place an order and some people want to be sold. No doubt the number of consumers that want to "place an order" are growing (this is where transactional websites come into play in the near future) but consumers that want to purchase from someone is still the dominant percentage. This percentage can fluctuate with the make of interest and demographics.
Joey Stivic "In any case, the factory calls at the end of the month for your sales numbers, not your CSI." - True that! (my ghettoness, just for Trev)
Frank "zero percent has become expected" - You can blame GM, Ford and Chrysler for that crap!
Frank "invoice pricing is available to everyone all the time" - We can blame the manufactures for that.
Brian "I think consumers want somebody compatible with them and its our job to figure out what that might be and keep it flowing within a general buying process that treats them with respect." - That's salesmen ship. (yes you did make a funny)
Are you salesman or an order taker? Some people want to place an order and some people want to be sold. No doubt the number of consumers that want to "place an order" are growing (this is where transactional websites come into play in the near future) but consumers that want to purchase from someone is still the dominant percentage. This percentage can fluctuate with the make of interest and demographics.
I've neglected to comment because I've been really torn on this subject. I'd love to be the foremost spokesman for truth in advertising, I'd love to come in here and say our OEM's are spear-heading change, I'd love to talk about a few of the retailers in the car industry (retailers - not car people) who try to operate like Golfsmith, and I'd love to say I believe everything on CNN too.
The truth is reality is a mean bitch. Just as I post this, two of our Hyundai ads are expiring. We advertised a Sonata for $16,777 out the door with all VA taxes and fees included, and had over 30 to choose from at that price - it failed. On the other hand, the Hyundai Santa Fe ad for "up to $6,000 off" worked like a charm. When I see an OEM ad it is always for the base car they produce the least of (the one we can't order) without freight and some other stipulations. CSI takes a long time to pay the bills, and it starts in your service department. I can go on and on...
A while back I posted a comment about the changes going on in this industry and said the current economic situation will either speed those changes up or halt them in their tracks. This is what I think will happen over the next 2 years if the economy stays like it is right now: Every manufacturer has acknowledged there are going to be less cars sold in the US this year. Those same manufacturers then said, "yes, there are going to be X million less cars sold in 2008, but we have the new XX model coming out so we'll still increase our sales this year! Keep those plants pumping those cars out because when the new XX model hits our older cars will start moving again." They'll hold onto this notion through April or May, then realize they made a big mistake, fire some people, and the new bosses will then come on board saying "the only way we can move this stuff is to put bigger incentives out than ever before" and this summer we'll start selling more cars again based on huge incentives. Trades will be worth less down the road, crazy leasing residuals or longer financing options will be introduced, and the cycle will continue. We'll continue doing what America does best: putting things on the back-burner.
I hope I'm wrong.
The truth is reality is a mean bitch. Just as I post this, two of our Hyundai ads are expiring. We advertised a Sonata for $16,777 out the door with all VA taxes and fees included, and had over 30 to choose from at that price - it failed. On the other hand, the Hyundai Santa Fe ad for "up to $6,000 off" worked like a charm. When I see an OEM ad it is always for the base car they produce the least of (the one we can't order) without freight and some other stipulations. CSI takes a long time to pay the bills, and it starts in your service department. I can go on and on...
A while back I posted a comment about the changes going on in this industry and said the current economic situation will either speed those changes up or halt them in their tracks. This is what I think will happen over the next 2 years if the economy stays like it is right now: Every manufacturer has acknowledged there are going to be less cars sold in the US this year. Those same manufacturers then said, "yes, there are going to be X million less cars sold in 2008, but we have the new XX model coming out so we'll still increase our sales this year! Keep those plants pumping those cars out because when the new XX model hits our older cars will start moving again." They'll hold onto this notion through April or May, then realize they made a big mistake, fire some people, and the new bosses will then come on board saying "the only way we can move this stuff is to put bigger incentives out than ever before" and this summer we'll start selling more cars again based on huge incentives. Trades will be worth less down the road, crazy leasing residuals or longer financing options will be introduced, and the cycle will continue. We'll continue doing what America does best: putting things on the back-burner.
I hope I'm wrong.
