Beepi and Vroom and Carvana - will they make a DENT?

[Chris Leslie]

“All your base are belong to us. You have no chance to survive make your time.”

 

[ed.brooks]

@Clay Toporski - I, for one, am sorry to see you go! As far as being a bunch of vendors that "like to think they can change the car selling world without actually having any clue or having spent any time actually selling cars", I spent a decade closing deals on the blacktop before there even was a 'digital side'. @Cullen C works at Carvana, one of the dealerships (yes it is a dealership) that is working to change how cars are sold. 'Uncle' @JoePistell worked running marketing for a large NY dealership before moving to the vendor world. This is a place where dealers and vendors work together in a pretty amazing way.

But you are correct that there is probably not a lot of love shown for the old school sales strategies (Joe Verde, etc.) by a good portion of the members here. It is however interesting to note that Grant Cardone has moved over and appears fully in the TrueCar camp "Car Dealers & TRUECar".

There a number of groups on Facebook where car salespeople talk about their favorite 'closes' - try Six Figure Sales Strategies for example. Yes, nobody at DealerRefresh seems to spend time thinking about how to make selling a car "easier". There are a lot of great minds thinking about how to make dealership marketing more effective and examining and reinventing the sales process for a dramatically changed marketplace.

 

[joe.pistell]

I've come the conclusion that DealerRefresh probably isn't the forum for me.

Clay, there is great value in surrounding yourself with people of similar views, but, you'll find the narrative limited to improving what's known.

“It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change”
– Charles Darwin
​

p.s. if you're the smartest person in the room then you're in the wrong room

 

[joe.pistell]

Clay,
I understand your passion, we spent decades on the battlefront, we have a view that no vendor sees. This means we have a special role in evolution of disruption. We must seek out disruptive discussions (like DR) and bring the "voice from the battlefront" to them.

Vendors that build solutions without understanding the battlefront is like playing darts with a blind-folded chimp... entertaining, but completely useless.

HTH
Joe
p.s. Disruption will never come to our industry without voice(s) from the battle front.

 

[Chris Cachor]

You ask for facts, but when presented with the facts you've decided to refute them with your opinions.

Exactly. Then hurl insults telling someone else to go to back to school because they don't "science" enough. Ha

 

[Bill Simmons]

Back to the topic, "Can they make a dent?", I say yes. Most successful startups begin with an idea based on solving a consumers problem. One of the most successful in our space began in the early 90's. CarMax wanted to solve the consumers problem of buying a used car without the hassle of negotiating. The "one price" concept was a hot button at that time and they built a business model around it that many said would not work. Twenty years later and annual sales approaching 600+K units per year proves that someone can make a dent in our industry. All of us car guys know that a consumer can buy a used car for less elsewhere if they want to do the shopping and negotiating but what we know doesn't matter to them or the consumer. It's their business model and their yearly sales prove that many wish to do business that way. Personally, I love it that the KMX stock that I bought for $6 is now trading at around $60.

Another startup mentioned recently in another thread, @Automatic, also solves another problem consumers have with our business. This is the company that designed the OBD port device that connects to an app to monitors a cars performance. Whats the problem they solve? Why bring your car to a dealer and pay $100+ labor charge to find out why your check engine light is on? Use their device and connect it to an app on your phone and they'll send the consumer the code and diagnosis. We may not think its a big deal but a vendor that supports our business just gave them a bunch of cash.

That's just a couple of examples and there are more. So I'm not the type to discount these new ventures so quickly. Not all of them are going to make it with their new ideas. But guess what? A lot of traditional dealers with outdated processes that are resistant to any type of change are not going to make it either. Someone said at one of our conferences this year, "if you want to know what the next big thing in our industry is, follow the venture capital money and there it is". I'm not sure it's quite that simple but there is definitely some truth to it.

 

[Tallcool1]

I've come the conclusion that DealerRefresh probably isn't the forum for me. It appears to be more of a group of vendors that like to think they can change the car selling world without actually having any clue or having spent any time actually selling cars.

Sorry that I tried to offer insight into the actual world that these companies are trying to break into. But, having been in this business - specifically on the digital side for almost 8 years now - they aren't presenting anything new. It's all been done before - and failed. Because, selling cars isn't easy. Human beings are rationale agents. There are roadblocks to selling a car from the customer and the dealer side. Until a website can fully realize what people like Verde and Cardone have spent their lives teaching, then I don't think it will work. Because, I can show a customer a great price on a car they love - and that simply isn't enough to make a deal in many cases. If so - selling cars would be a lot easier. The order takers would sell more cars than the actual salespeople - and the market would look completely different.

So, adieu to you and all the vendors here that want to continue to think they can change the world. I wish you the best of luck - but I highly doubt you will find it is as easy as you make it seem.

Ciao! Time to find a forum with actual car people on it.

Clay

I would encourage you to hang around.

Many of these vendors actually did (at some point) work on the retail side. This business has changed a great deal since some of them were on the retail side. Depending upon the thread or issue at hand, some of what they experienced still applies. Some of it doesn't.

You have referenced science vs. opinion many times. What I have learned is that different things work for different dealers. Sometimes all the science in the world won't make it work in my store. Sometimes what works for me are exactly the things that science says won't work. I don't know why that is, but it is.

I share your opinion that there is a dealership or human element that is a necessary part of this industry. I personally have no desire to put a "Buy It Now" button on my website. I just want to give as much information as I can so that customers will want to come to my store and not a competitors store. I believe @JoePistell in that customers WANT to come to the store. They want to drive it, they want to look me in the eyes, they want to know who they are doing business with. Some day this may change. That day is not today.

I believe that your stance on this thread has not been understood the way that you intended it. I personally don't think that your intention was to rub anyone wrong. Many of these people are extremely analytical and can easily get their feelings hurt. There is nothing wrong with that. It takes all of our personalities to make a site like this valuable.

We don't all have to agree. People don't have to see your point, and you don't have to see other people's points. For every person that thinks you are an idiot, there are 2 that get what you are saying. You are here for those two.

If you are able to shrug it off, some of these people that you find yourself at odds with can turn into tremendous resources. I had a guy just completely piss me off about a month ago. I sent him a message to let him have it, and wow am I glad I did. This guy is helping me more than I would have ever guessed was possible.

Just hang around. The next thread may need you.

 

[Clay Toporski]

Exactly. Then hurl insults telling someone else to go to back to school because they don't "science" enough. Ha

I believe that I do owe you an apology before I do move on. You're right, I was wrong to insult you. We can respectfully to agree to disagree. I suppose it was difficult to accept the idea that someone thinks dealerships are "bad" places when I see the other side of it daily - and it is a stigma that as an industry we battle daily. Please accept my apology for being rude, condescending and generally acting in poor taste.

Other than that, I appreciate everyone else's warm words and encouragement to stay - but I don't believe I have much to gain and don't want to end up at odds with other members. Especially, since I regard marketing as simply one part of the car selling process. Many people I run into see marketing as the road to more sales. I disagree. I see it as a road to a bigger funnel. However, the funnel itself if the sales process - which when refined correctly can produce more sales than simply the haphazard "luck" of someone making it from the top to the bottom simply from marketing alone.

Last, the only thing I want to correct is my last post which I mistyped, "People are rationale agents." I meant to type, "people aren't rational agents."

Again, please accept my apology for being a complete jerk and best of luck to everyone.

 

[craigh]

Other than that, I appreciate everyone else's warm words and encouragement to stay - but I don't believe I have much to gain and don't want to end up at odds with other members.

There's nothing wrong with being at odds with others here. If we all agreed on everything we would just pat each other on the back and nothing would ever change. There are many fact based discussions on these forums and you'll be able to lend some great advice to many of them if you decide to stick around.

 

[joe.pistell]

I empathize with Clay's rant. I'm surrounded by brilliant people, but it astonishes me on how few really understand what's happening inside dealerships. I must spend 80% of my efforts in teaching, mentoring and communicating.

IMO, here's why so few people understand WTF is going on.

1. Shoppers are invisible.
2. Dealers are pre-judged to be the cause of unethical behavior.

#1). Shoppers are invisible.
Car shoppers have a clear path, it's called ROBO (Research Online, Buy Offline). They prefer to be shopping stealth. Dealers AND vendors have no clue as to what or how the invisible internet shopper impacts their business. How can you measure ROI if you can't see the damn shopper? we're left with dealers and vendors chasing lead gen when in fact lead gen is NOT a productive shopping experience. The lack of performance visibility creates a features arms race that makes HIPPOs happy.

#2). Dealers are pre-judged.
The urban legend of evil dealers has to die. It amazes me how so many many intelligent people can't see the facts. Negotiation is a dance. In almost all cases, negotiation is begun by the buyer (not the seller). Car shoppers are very selfish. Car shoppers have all the tools to buy cars and financing at the cheapest rate. No where in this "evil car dealer" narrative do I ever hear about shoppers taking responsibility. This belief is un checked and is rooted in bad science. This legend has to end.


IMO we need more dealer voices in vendor world. Clay's apology was a welcome site.