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How much are you spending on online marketing per month?

On average each locations spends about 20% of total ad budget. 700 New, 325-340 Used for Group.

We run our website in-house so a larger percentage can be spent on other digital sources.


You have 4 brands, maybe 5 if you count Lincoln. At $700-800 for a full blown site with mobile, videos, email, graphics, manufacturer incentives in the VDP etc you are "saving" once you count what you get paid maybe $1500 a month. Maybe (and by not having some things).

Percentage wise if the budget for 5 stores is $100,000 a month for total budget is almost insignificant.

I understand that you do your sites for a million other reasons though.
 
You have 4 brands, maybe 5 if you count Lincoln. At $700-800 for a full blown site with mobile, videos, email, graphics, manufacturer incentives in the VDP etc you are "saving" once you count what you get paid maybe $1500 a month. Maybe (and by not having some things).

Percentage wise if the budget for 5 stores is $100,000 a month for total budget is almost insignificant.

I understand that you do your sites for a million other reasons though.


Your numbers are not even remotely close close in your post, so your speculation on what we spend or what we saved is way off. Our monthly online budget is nearly 4-5x the figure you posted. You kind of struck a nerve with me on this post. When I got into the automotive industry slightly over a year ago, I was blown away at the amount website providers are charging per month for dealers. We were spending approx $5200 a month for our previous provider (1 group & 3 location sites). This doesn't take in the price of our Colbat sites for both Kia locations, our Lincoln websites, and Ford Premium websites. You, like other dealership website providers want to see people and groups like us fail, especially our previous website provider. However, there are a few that have had high praises (dealer.com/dealeron).

I'll never forget the email I received from our previous provider and I quote, "I hope you fail and fail miserably; when you do you'll be crawling back to us in hopes to save you. We see these 'graphic designers' come in promising a bill of goods to dealerships but they lack the industry knowledge and support like we can. Dealer websites are not like other websites out there and all in house websites will fail. I'll keep you on file and touch base soon because in a few months you'll be coming back. Best of luck, you will need it, xxxxxxx"

I did quite the opposite in the first year increasing our unique visitor count by an average of 5,032 a month, increasing our unique VLP/VDP viewers by 9,483 for year, increased our conversion rate by 4%, and increased our website lead count by 1,243. So what I'm doing works or is working, I can guarantee you that. If you can guarantee those same results over a DealerFire website, I'd love to see it.

I'm part of a in-house marketing team which I also produce our commercials and design our printed marketing materials which saves us lots of money over 3rd party vendors. So our cost saving for in-house isn't limited to digital sources. I'm not going to post exactly how much, but in 1 year it was over 4x our yearly marketing team's salaries.

Again, don't speculate on numbers you don't know anything about.
 
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Your numbers are not even remotely close close in your post, so your speculation on what we spend or what we saved is way off. Our monthly online budget is nearly 4-5x the figure you posted. You kind of struck a nerve with me on this post.

Chad,

Speculation is just that since I don't know the numbers. But if your budget is 5X what I thought it was my point is even more on target:

We run our website in-house so a larger percentage can be spent on other digital sources.


We are talking about a 0.3% of extra budget by running the sites in house and that was my point.

I'm not trying to attack you or your work, I mentioned that there are many reasons why someone may decide to do their own sites, but saving money shouldn't be one because you really don't, or you do at the expense of not having certain technologies.

When I got into the automotive industry slightly over a year ago, I was blown away at the amount website providers are charging per month for dealers. We were spending approx $5200 a month for our previous provider (1 group & 3 location sites). .

My daughter goes to a private school and they just paid $80,000 for a 4 year website contract ($1,600/month) with no extremely spec applications, feeds, and all the crap the car biz needs. I think the auto industry, for how fine tuned these sites need to be, is not expensive.

I can't tell you $5,200 is expensive or not for 4 websites. Did it include some custom programing, on page SEO, content creation, automated rebates, graphics design, etc? I still will gamble my life that you don't spend much less but don't have, and never will, the latest research and technology.

This doesn't take in the price of our Colbat sites for both Kia locations, our Lincoln websites, and Ford Premium websites.



I can't do anything about your Cobalt site or the Ford Direct site, that is something only you as a dealer can change. If you think is a waste of money get together with the other dealers in the state and bid for a change.

You, like other dealership website providers want to see people and groups like us fail, especially our previous website provider. However, there are a few that have had high praises (dealer.com/dealeron).

I don't like or dislike what you do. As a matter of fact I don't even know who you are or what you do for the most part. What I care is that if your business model is better than mine I need to look at adapting. You will fail if you are wrong not because I desire you to fail.

Let me tell you how I see it:

I practice martial arts every day of my life to a fault. I'm good. But my teacher, who is older, slower, and not as strong as I'm still beats the hell out of me. The reason is that he teaches 4 classes a day, so for every year that I put into training he puts 4. For every opponent I fight (and therefore I increase my experience) he fights 4.

Unless I become a teacher I can't be as good as he is.

I'll never forget the email I received from our previous provider and I quote, "I hope you fail and fail miserably; when you do you'll be crawling back to us in hopes to save you. We see these 'graphic designers' come in promising a bill of goods to dealerships but they lack the industry knowledge and support like we can. Dealer websites are not like other websites out there and all in house websites will fail. I'll keep you on file and touch base soon because in a few months you'll be coming back. Best of luck, you will need it, xxxxxxx"

There are assholes in every area of your life, but that doesn't mean all website vendors are. I hope you don't judge the car industry as a whole by the one sales experience you had when you were 18. Know what I mean?



I did quite the opposite in the first year increasing our unique visitor count by an average of 5,032 a month, increasing our unique VLP/VDP viewers by 9,483 for year, increased our conversion rate by 4%, and increased our website lead count by 1,243. So what I'm doing works or is working, I can guarantee you that. If you can guarantee those same results over a DealerFire website, I'd love to see it.

Oh sh@#%& no wonder if it was DealerFire! :) Just kidding.

I don't doubt that you increased things, ut my point was towards "we are saving money". I never put in doubt your numbers, partially because I don't know them, I don't know if the dealer worked with DealerFire (there is only so much they can do on their own), etc.

We run our website in-house so a larger percentage can be spent on other digital sources.


I'm part of a in-house marketing team which I also produce our commercials and design our printed marketing materials which saves us lots of money over 3rd party vendors. So our cost saving for in-house isn't limited to digital sources. I'm not going to post exactly how much, but in 1 year it was over 4x our yearly marketing team's salaries.

Again, don't speculate on numbers you don't know anything about.

Well you know I'm a small chicken but I run a data collection company that takes photos of 25,000 cars a month, manages CL for over 500 dealers, have over 10,000 micro-sites and blogs the we maintain, own 2 weekly published magazines (over $1.5M a year in printer cost) so I do know a little bit about what things cost and I'll not take your numbers for granted. I see a lot of P&L statements, payroll, etc.

This is a good set up for the dealer owner because he has another business, he will save of make (however you want to see it) the money the owner of DeaerFire would make. You still need to have a programmer, designer, etc. There is only so much cost you can take out of things, it cost money to get things done and in the car industry margins are pretty thing because competition is fierce among vendors.

Back to me original point:

Not much money saved and chances that you will not be able to develop some technology that you just have at one point.

Most set ups like yours end because of that, not because you are not a great designer/programer/etc but because the dealer reaches an impasse where the team can't develop or acquire whats needed to remain competitive in the market.
 
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Thanks for your reply. Good stuff there.

The one point I'll make is the website costs. From what I noticed most automotive website companies have the development and technologies in place for the big website features - inventory display, basic SEO practices, mobile sites, etc. There are some that advance their technologies and have development costs. Some simply rebundle those features and "lease" them to other dealerships. I went back and looked and it was actually $7200/month, not a huge difference, but still significant in the long term. If you take that cost over a year, you're looking at a $86k "leased" or "rented" website. That expense only keeps adding up over time. The second you stop paying, then second the website is gone and you have nothing to show for it - no ownership what-so-ever.

I received a quote from a good programmer I use and a custom all-inclusive inventory system to program from scratch would be around $30k. This system included everything - Theme options, VLP display options, ability for user to save vehicles, related vehicles, incentives, carfax, everything imaginable. Even if you went your own route and left a developer on retainer or had access to him in case something breaks, you're still in the clear, plus you own it.

We took the middle route to start - built own website customized an already development inventory plug-in. However, our goal is to get off that and build our own.

Automotive website companies have a good market, they know dealerships won't take that plunge and there are thousands of dealerships needing websites and are willing to pay.
 
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Thanks for your reply. Good stuff there.

The one point I'll make is the website costs. From what I noticed most automotive website companies have the development and technologies in place for the big website features - inventory display, basic SEO practices, mobile sites, etc. There are some that advance their technologies and have development costs. Some simply rebundle those features and "lease" them to other dealerships.

I strongly disagree. Research and development is needed in the car industry as shopping methods, customer expectations, etc change. It cost a lot more in money, time, and energy that people realize.

Just as a footnote: Technology has always been and it will always be exhnaged and re-bundled. First program I wrote (after "hello world"--a programmer will get the joke) I took someone else code and I use pieces of it as base for my own program.


I went back and looked and it was actually $7200/month, not a huge difference, but still significant in the long term. If you take that cost over a year, you're looking at a $86k "leased" or "rented" website. That expense only keeps adding up over time. The second you stop paying, then second the website is gone and you have nothing to show for it - no ownership what-so-ever.

I received a quote from a good programmer I use and a custom all-inclusive inventory system to program from scratch would be around $30k. This system included everything - Theme options, VLP display options, ability for user to save vehicles, related vehicles, incentives, carfax, everything imaginable. Even if you went your own route and left a developer on retainer or had access to him in case something breaks, you're still in the clear, plus you own it.

I still argue that you will spend that money anyway and perhaps not be able to keep up with technology development and cost over the long run. I myself had to reach out several times to outside programers, even outside the U.S. for very specific applications (mobile).

The graphics and content don't matter because they must change over time rather quick. Content is easy to take from provider to provider. So what is that you lease? The code/programs that make the site? Even if you claim you own yours what is that you own? You still have to pay for it up front when you build it and you have to ay to maintain it and to change it in the future. Pay-pay-pay.

Your programmer's quote will develop what works today, but not what you will need to work in 6 months. What if you need a full re-design? How much is that now? What if he wants another 30K? Have you even worked with programers before or taken a program from one guy to a different one... I--HAVE!

I will also tell you that building a program is a little bit like building a house without general contractor. Leave the brick layer's alone and lets see how that goes. Make sure you get every single detail on paper and that you don't change the system's requirements along the way. You will not be the first guy I know that dumps 30K in a program and 1 year later still don't have something that works to show for.






We took the middle route to start - built own website customized an already development inventory plug-in. However, our goal is to get off that and build our own.

Automotive website companies have a good market, they know dealerships won't take that plunge and there are thousands of dealerships needing websites and are willing to pay.

Automotive website companies have a market because they can develop infinitely better and more systems that what one person can do on their own. That is why car companies consolidated from hundreds of makes in a few years to twenty, that's why IBM uses MS excel, that is why Rackspace uses MS Outlook, etc instead of developing their own.
 
Chad,

A few questions:

  • You have 6 stores?
  • What does your web production and support team look like?
  • What do you bring to the team?
  • Do you have an assistant?

  • How do you handle Conversion Rate Optimization (CRO) Internal or external?



  • Who does your inventory hosting? Whats that cost you?
  • Other than inventory, Whats your web vendor list look like (art, SEO, OEM Incentives feed, Compliance, CRO etc)?



  • Who else in your org gets involved with web (managers, owner)
  • UI/UX?
  • Vendor reviews, negotiations & contracts

p.s. Look into chat, it works very well!
 
In the spirit of honesty Chad, heres where I am coming from.

The cost of the website is a sum of the entire team required to bring it to life and to keep it alive.

Web site DIY (that is world class) can only happen with HIGHLY TALENTED players (like yourself). Highly talented players are VERY RARE. Your company depends on you being at the helm to guide and optimize their investment. Should you leave (for any reason), they're never going to find a player like you that can execute like you have.

My Summary: Your sites success leaves when you do.

If I were mngt at your org, I'd pay to have a worthy assistant at your side recording it all and being mentored by you should something happen...

Web site DIY is very often dependent on ONE GUY and that's a risk to consider.
 
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In the spirit of honesty Chad, heres where I am coming from.

The cost of the website is a sum of the entire team required to bring it to life and to keep it alive.

Web site DIY (that is world class) can only happen with HIGHLY TALENTED players (like yourself). Highly talented players are VERY RARE. Your company depends on you being at the helm to guide and optimize their investment. Should you leave (for any reason), they're never going to find a player like you that can execute like you have.

My Summary: Your sites success leaves when you do.

If I were mngt at your org, I'd pay to have a worthy assistant at your side recording it all and being mentored by you should something happen...

Web site DIY is very often dependent on ONE GUY and that's a risk to consider.

Chad,

To add to Joe's.

If you are really that talented, you will look for bigger challenges.

Look at Joe, Alex, Jeff. It happened to me too.
 
Chad,

A few questions:

  • You have 6 stores?
  • What does your web production and support team look like?
  • What do you bring to the team?
  • Do you have an assistant?

  • How do you handle Conversion Rate Optimization (CRO) Internal or external?



  • Who does your inventory hosting? Whats that cost you?
  • Other than inventory, Whats your web vendor list look like (art, SEO, OEM Incentives feed, Compliance, CRO etc)?



  • Who else in your org gets involved with web (managers, owner)
  • UI/UX?
  • Vendor reviews, negotiations & contracts

p.s. Look into chat, it works very well!

You have 6 stores?
Slightly confusing on how we count things. 3 cities - Lincoln, NE (2 locations - Ford, Lincoln, Mazda, and a separate pre-owned), Grand Island, NE (1 location, but 2 different buildings - Kia and Ford/Lincoln), St. Joseph, MO (1 location, but 2 different buildings - Kia and Ford/Lincoln). Then we have 3 closely tied-in Buy-Here-Pay-Heres in each city.

What does your web production and support team look like?
I'm lone developer, SEO, SEM, email newsletters, and do a majority of design work. I do have one other designer who's primary focus is print and commercial production who I can use for design work if needed.

What do you bring to the team?
This is a good question, but I'll try not to inflate what I do too much. In a previous position of 6 years I was a designer/developer working for vendor provided websites and CRMs for the trucking, machinery, ag, and aircraft sales industry. I was also main UI/UX designer for an in-house CRM system which we resold to those same industries. I bring knowledge of design, development (html, css, php, WordPress, mySQL), SEO, SEM, data analytics, customer behaviors analytics, as well as, commercial production.

Do you have an assistant?
Mainly budgetary and a team leader who can in contact with people and meet with them if I am unable. Our e-commerce director for group recently moved into a GM role.

How do you handle Conversion Rate Optimization (CRO) Internal or external?
Internal

Who does your inventory hosting? Whats that cost you?
DealerTrend. Approx. $750 per month for all locations. We do have a dedicated web server through InMotion Hosting, but cost is split up among several stores and departments. Currently, have 14 external and internal facing websites hosted there (sales, service, car wash, QuickLanes, accessories, etc).

Other than inventory, Whats your web vendor list look like (art, SEO, OEM Incentives feed, Compliance, CRO etc)?
RedBumper, Cars.com, CarsForSale.com, Haystak (SEM), BlackBook Used Value, CarFax Advantage Dealer, ContactAtOnce, DealerRater. For new we are a one-price negotiation-free dealership in Lincoln and Grand Island incentives are built into pricing.

Who else in your org gets involved with web (managers, owner)
Everyone is free to give suggestions and input. Final decisions come down to our team and GMs/owners. Main ideas originate from myself and a few others on our design team.

UI/UX?
Mainly myself with the help of some outside design forums I'm a member of. I get a lot of my data from customer behaviors from using a website call CrazyEgg.com. Sales does have input on features they would like to see used.

Vendor reviews, negotiations & contracts
This was the role of our group e-commerce director until he left to become GM. Since his departure this has become a part of of team until his role is filled or we decide what to do with that position. Currently, I am leading up hunt for new CRM system.

p.s. Look into chat, it works very well!
We use ContactAtOnce for chat. Our group site doesn't have a 'card drop-in' like our location websites, but it has a chat button at top of page, on VDPs, and on bar at bottom of site. I'm working on a side chat tab that is better displayed than what we have currently. Our customer behavior according to Crazy Egg click charts were to close that chat card drop-in (99.8% of visitors clicked close on card) and use the button at top for chat.
 
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