Pissing Up A Rope SEO and 3rd Party Sites

[BillKVMotorCo]

It drives me nuts being listed under the 3rd party sites when doing an organic search on Google. Am I pissing up a rope trying to keep up with them organically? And tell me again why I shouldn't be on 3rd party sites if they can just kick my ass like this in search results.

 

[Dan Sayer]

Yes. Trying to rank Organically, traditional SEO, for Make Model searches is pointless. We pay to play where the shoppers are and are always in at least two 3rd party listings per store. BUT, we may be able to someday shed off the 3rd party completely as we grow this. Vehicle listings on Google | Google for Developers Huge growth for us so far. We also continue to run SEM Make Model campaigns as well which impacts the VLAs.
In full disclosure, I signed us up on the Beta for "Cars for sale" as Google was calling it years ago and hired a small agency then pivoted to building out a BDC for sales and service. Our marketing team and the agency have since grown this.

 

[Ryan Everson]

It drives me nuts being listed under the 3rd party sites when doing an organic search on Google. Am I pissing up a rope trying to keep up with them organically?

Yes.

And tell me again why I shouldn't be on 3rd party sites if they can just kick my ass like this in search results.

You should be on 3rd party site(s). See my LinkedIn post from 2 years ago on this topic:

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Lately, I’ve been hearing a lot of dealers speak out against third-party classified websites like AutoTrader, Cars.com, CarGurus, etc by stating that dealers hold all of the power with their inventory.

Is it 2010 still? Let’s be real, that ship has long since sailed. The third-party sites now hold the power with millions of in-market eyeballs and the power of scale. If you’re not on it, your competitors will be and will gain that ever-elusive competitive advantage.

Let me frame it a different way: Amazon, Expedia, Kayak, etc are all third-party marketplaces. Consumers love the convenience of these third-party marketplaces. Don’t you?

Imagine having to check 6 airline websites to find the best flight? Talk about a painful experience.

Now imagine consumers having to check hundreds of car dealer websites to find the best car. Real PITA.

It’s naive to expect consumers to use third-party marketplaces everywhere EXCEPT automotive.

Let me say it again, it’s naive to expect consumers to use third-party marketplaces everywhere EXCEPT automotive.

And if that were the case, it would further accelerate consumers’ desire for disruption in our industry. Let's not add fuel to the fire.

Let’s make car buying as frictionless as possible for shoppers. If that means partnering with a great dealer-friendly marketplace like Cars.com, then so be it. They are going to continue to innovate and help dealers stay competitive in today’s ever-changing market.

Boycotting third parties is taking a step backward in the consumer experience. Sure, it may work for a few dealers, just like the anti-marketplace strategy works for Southwest Airlines. But they are the exception to the rule.

Heck, even the disruptors like Carvana and Vroom list their inventory on all of the third-party marketplaces! Why? Because it works.

And what about the argument that I can use Google Ads to eliminate the need for third parties? Ha, as Brian Pasch demonstrated in his most recent report, Google Ads is generally an incredibly expensive and ineffective way to reach in-market car shoppers. If your agency is suggesting you cancel third parties and shift your entire budget to their google ads campaigns, they do not have your best interests in mind.

I admit, I used to be part of the anti-third marketplace crowd, but I’ve come to the realization that for most dealers they are now a necessary and effective digital partner against the disruptors and OEM overreach. In the end, I’m pro customer experience.

Source: Ryan Everson ⚡ on LinkedIn: #automotive #dealerships | 55 comments

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The one thing that has changed since I posted this was the advent of Google VLA's. In the beginning, Google VLA's had an insane ROI. As more dealers have jumped on them, the ROI has diminished and in some cases, we find the cost per VDP view and cost per lead is often cheaper on third-party sites.

 

[Marc Lavoie]

Yes.

You should be on 3rd party site(s). See my LinkedIn post from 2 years ago on this topic:

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Lately, I’ve been hearing a lot of dealers speak out against third-party classified websites like AutoTrader, Cars.com, CarGurus, etc by stating that dealers hold all of the power with their inventory.

Is it 2010 still? Let’s be real, that ship has long since sailed. The third-party sites now hold the power with millions of in-market eyeballs and the power of scale. If you’re not on it, your competitors will be and will gain that ever-elusive competitive advantage.

Let me frame it a different way: Amazon, Expedia, Kayak, etc are all third-party marketplaces. Consumers love the convenience of these third-party marketplaces. Don’t you?

Imagine having to check 6 airline websites to find the best flight? Talk about a painful experience.

Now imagine consumers having to check hundreds of car dealer websites to find the best car. Real PITA.

It’s naive to expect consumers to use third-party marketplaces everywhere EXCEPT automotive.

Let me say it again, it’s naive to expect consumers to use third-party marketplaces everywhere EXCEPT automotive.

And if that were the case, it would further accelerate consumers’ desire for disruption in our industry. Let's not add fuel to the fire.

Let’s make car buying as frictionless as possible for shoppers. If that means partnering with a great dealer-friendly marketplace like Cars.com, then so be it. They are going to continue to innovate and help dealers stay competitive in today’s ever-changing market.

Boycotting third parties is taking a step backward in the consumer experience. Sure, it may work for a few dealers, just like the anti-marketplace strategy works for Southwest Airlines. But they are the exception to the rule.

Heck, even the disruptors like Carvana and Vroom list their inventory on all of the third-party marketplaces! Why? Because it works.

And what about the argument that I can use Google Ads to eliminate the need for third parties? Ha, as Brian Pasch demonstrated in his most recent report, Google Ads is generally an incredibly expensive and ineffective way to reach in-market car shoppers. If your agency is suggesting you cancel third parties and shift your entire budget to their google ads campaigns, they do not have your best interests in mind.

I admit, I used to be part of the anti-third marketplace crowd, but I’ve come to the realization that for most dealers they are now a necessary and effective digital partner against the disruptors and OEM overreach. In the end, I’m pro customer experience.

Source: Ryan Everson ⚡ on LinkedIn: #automotive #dealerships | 55 comments

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The one thing that has changed since I posted this was the advent of Google VLA's. In the beginning, Google VLA's had an insane ROI. As more dealers have jumped on them, the ROI has diminished and in some cases, we find the cost per VDP view and cost per lead is often cheaper on third-party sites.

Great post Ryan and still holds 1000% true today.

How would you describe that for new vs used?

 

[Ryan Everson]

How would you describe that for new vs used?

I'll use my co-op funds all day long to pay for my third-party marketplaces. That being said, third-party marketplaces definitely tend to benefit used more than new (shh don't tell the OEM's).

As dealers begin to get more new car inventory it will be interesting to watch consumer behavior.

Will consumers assume their local dealer has plenty of new car inventory again, lessening the need to search a wide radius on a marketplace?

Will consumers search on third-party marketplaces to seek out dealers offering the highest dealer discounts (*cough* RAM trucks *cough*)

Will consumers follow the OEM's desire to go straight to tier 1 and build / reserve the exact vehicle and option packages they want on the OEM website?

I'd expect it to be a mixture of all these scenarios, there's no one size fits all.

It will be even more interesting as OEM's start splitting their inventory into 2 silos - ICE and EV:

• If a consumer wants an ICE vehicle they can stay on the dealership website.
• If the consumer wants an EV vehicle, they are linked out to a separate website - either the OEM website or a dealer subdomain website often powered by Tekion with no dealer customization or access allowed.

Which leaves me questioning - what's going to happen to the dealership website once all new vehicles inevitably become EV's?

And if (a big IF) OEM's successfully transition dealers away from having hundreds of in-stock units and towards becoming more of a delivery center - what new car inventory could dealers even list on third-party marketplaces? Would OEM's list their central stock inventory on third-party marketplaces instead?

We also have OEM's like Porsche banning dealers from listing their new vehicles on third-party marketplaces altogether - will other OEM's follow suit?

Interesting times as always in automotive retail!

 

[Greg_Gifford]

no - you're not pissing up a rope - it's definitely possible to beat the 3rd party sites with good SEO.

Plus - everyone keeps saying "we'll go where the customers are" - because they shrug at SEO and think it's worthless. But the dealers who rock awesome SEO beat the 3rd party sites all day long, and control the user journey, and sell more cars.

Plus - data has shown that customers only go to the 3rd party sites when they can't find what they're looking for locally. If you're selling lots of hard-to-find vehicles, or you're definitely the cheapest in the market, then sure - go for it and bang out all the 3rd party sites...

but most customers WANT to buy from a local dealership - so if you do solid SEO and show in search results, you'll get those customers...

Why would you spend thousands on 3rd party sites where your competitors are also advertised when you can spend less money on effective SEO and own the customer's attention? AND control the messaging?

I'm not advocating that dealers boycott the 3rd party sites - they're a tool in your toolbelt, and you should be everywhere a potential customer might be... but you shouldn't boycott SEO and PPC and only do 3rd party sites - that's a horrible strategy

Ryan had some good points - but it's irresponsible to compare automotive to Amazon. Amazon exists for cheap, instant buying. That's not the car buying process. People don't just hop on a 3rd party site and buy a car. When people buy cars, they do LOTS of research (through multiple different sessions)...

 

[Dan Sayer]

no - you're not pissing up a rope - it's definitely possible to beat the 3rd party sites with good SEO.

Plus - everyone keeps saying "we'll go where the customers are" - because they shrug at SEO and think it's worthless. But the dealers who rock awesome SEO beat the 3rd party sites all day long, and control the user journey, and sell more cars.

Plus - data has shown that customers only go to the 3rd party sites when they can't find what they're looking for locally. If you're selling lots of hard-to-find vehicles, or you're definitely the cheapest in the market, then sure - go for it and bang out all the 3rd party sites...

but most customers WANT to buy from a local dealership - so if you do solid SEO and show in search results, you'll get those customers...

Why would you spend thousands on 3rd party sites where your competitors are also advertised when you can spend less money on effective SEO and own the customer's attention? AND control the messaging?

I'm not advocating that dealers boycott the 3rd party sites - they're a tool in your toolbelt, and you should be everywhere a potential customer might be... but you shouldn't boycott SEO and PPC and only do 3rd party sites - that's a horrible strategy

Ryan had some good points - but it's irresponsible to compare automotive to Amazon. Amazon exists for cheap, instant buying. That's not the car buying process. People don't just hop on a 3rd party site and buy a car. When people buy cars, they do LOTS of research (through multiple different sessions)...

Who is doing this now, @Greg_Gifford? What dealers can we look at that are outranking 3rd parties in Organic for make/model searches because of their SEO efforts?

 

[Dan Sayer]

The one thing that has changed since I posted this was the advent of Google VLA's. In the beginning, Google VLA's had an insane ROI. As more dealers have jumped on them, the ROI has diminished and in some cases, we find the cost per VDP view and cost per lead is often cheaper on third-party sites.

We're currently running at $0.50 per VDP on VLAs, @Ryan Everson.

 

[Greg_Gifford]

Here are a few searches for make/model searches where dealers outrank 3rd party sites:

2022 chevrolet blazer youngstown oh - Google Search
2023 kia telluride rochester mn - Google Search
ford f-150 dallas - Google Search

you can pick almost any market and do a year+make+model search and see at least one or two dealers outranking 3rd party sites

Here's one for one of @Ryan Everson's stores: 2023 audi a4 rochester ny - Google Search

 

[Baron Ringler]

Simple enough to consider with 3rd Party sites. Does the ROI make sense?

If you are getting enough deals to make the ROI numbers work, and they are deals that were generated solely by that third party, then keep them. If not, dump them. They will try and maneuver you with their talk of "impressions", but I have always found that to be a weak position. At worst, they will come back at you with discounted rates and you can re-do the math from there.

It drives me nuts being listed under the 3rd party sites when doing an organic search on Google. Am I pissing up a rope trying to keep up with them organically? And tell me again why I shouldn't be on 3rd party sites if they can just kick my ass like this in search result