Very well said, Erica. And in case anyone is wondering, ESAP is the Elite Society for Automotive Professionals. It's for the cool kids. And Sean, you are invited to join anytime. Don't worry, Mr. Anonymous Post Person won't be there

Hey Ash - thanks for the shout out. Kinda random, but appreciated.

This whole string is sad. Single tear. I concur with Ashley on not saying anything, but I can see Sean's frustrations with someone claiming that without x number of years, how can you do x? Age and wisdom are but numbers and opinions. Look at Mozart, Beethoven, Mark Zuckerberg, JFK, Kevin Rose, Larry Page, Sergei Brin, George Washington, Albert Einstein - none of them had 50 years experience in anything when they had some of the greatest accomplishments of their lives and I would certainly pay to hear them speak and heed their advice. I mean Kennedy slept with Marilyn Monroe - what guy would not pay to get womanizing advice from him? (that was a joke - he was hot, rich and powerful so I guess that is not really advice. I coulda told you that hot, powerful, rich guys can get just about anyone for free and I have never even been a hot, powerful, rich guy!!)

Not one of Joe Verde's trainers has 50 years experience nor did he when he begun. Who else? Grant Cardone and Paul Cummings - neither with 50 years. In fact, I probably wouldn't go see any of them if they did...not gonna lie, young, energetic dynamos are pretty standard in the world of training (in any industry) . What made these people some of the most successful trainers in the industry? My guess they are the same things that make Shaun successful - passion, understanding, the desire to help, patience, energy, and experience. It doesn't have to be 50 years or even 10 years for that matter...heck, professors only have to go through 8 years of school before they can teach (and sometimes they can even start with only a masters), so why should the car business need to give 50 years?

I am sure you were just using 50 as an example and we are throwing that back a little over-zealously, but similar to your use of the number - it adds a little oomph to your argument and even more to the counter-argument. I don't think at any point Sean said the phrase "I know everything and will never learn more and until the end of time, my current philosophies will remain accurate and applicable" Everyone knows things change and that as time drags on, the face of business will change, as will our methods and tactics, yet this does not mean that no one should try to share with others what has him/her and others to be successful. And if I had to guess, as Sean's business evolves, he includes more and more examples of other people's successes and innovations versus only his own experiences.

And bad form to anonymous post person. Kershner totally voted you off the island. You are so not invited to join ESAP.

And one more thing!!!!!

Please have visual of tough black chick (me) shaking her head from side to side...

in reference to this...
I own their names... their URLs... How can you be a national "expert"... teach dealers Internet sales and your technology is ghetto and you can NOT even secure your own Name or PMA?

Why his technology gotta be ghetto? You da one talkin bout Bentleys and Cristal. Sh-t...

Ouch! Personal attacks may not be the way to go here, and sometimes the best defense is to say nothing. I know you Sean. You seem to be doing well for yourself. Should have probably left it at that. We all know that it's pretty easy to pay to play for the covers of the mags. Name dropping is never good although you redeemed yourself in my book with the Greek system plug.

Btw in case anyone is interested, I am 5"11, 138 pounds, a Kappa Alpha Theta. I've been on some panels and some covers too. And I have the utmost respect for this gal Erica. Tall like me. Kappa Kappa Gamma though...

Sean Bradley is a good guy who has a ton to offer in the space. This thread has no purpose and again folks with no history start this stuff.

It is important that all voices be heard and all opinions be respected. I personally know of stores that Sean has trained that are seeing double-digit increases in sales. Is he for everyone? no, but none of us are.

Keith

Chuck,

Since when has a person's level of knowledge, or level of comprehension for that matter, been based off of physical appearance? "Judging a book by its cover"? Isn't that a little ignorant on your behalf? For someone with so called 50 years of car experience and a person claiming to have a lot of Internet knowledge, one would think that you would at the very least know how to punch www.google.com into the Internet tool bar and do your research before just writing the first comment that pops into your mind. And you teach Internet sales?? Wow, I pitty your students. When it comes to the ability to understand a variety of topics and information, I hate to break the news to you Chuck, but we are NOT all created equal. Some people are just born with a natural gift, it is innate. Just because it has taken you 50 years to comprehend what Sean Bradley knows in 10, you should not pass judgement. That is why HE is the expert and YOU are NOT. I have heard time and time again from Sean's OWN direct competitors, that there is no one else like Sean Bradley. He is the "real" deal. There is no need for me to repeat all of Sean successes, but sir if you are so good at Internet Sales, why have I not heard of you? When I googled your name, you were no where to be found. Maybe you should take one of Sean's classes. I am sure he can teach you a thing or two.

By the way, who are you? What have you done with Internet Sales? Have you ever been on the cover of a magazine, or even written for one? If you are going to talk, spill it.

Lastly, It sounds to me like you are saying that every car person that has 50 years of experience like you, knows EXACTLY what you know, nothing more, nothing less. Let's hope not, because from the sound of things, you don't seem to be too intelligent. Get your head out of the clouds and try putting it into a book.

Chuck,

Sorry for the delayed response. I just concluded another successful Internet Sales Bootcamp with NCM & Associates... www.internetsalesbootcamp.com

Lets get right to it... I am 5'5", about 145 pounds, 31 years of age, engaged have a 6 year old, an 8 year old step daughter and a little boy on the way. ARMY ROTC & Reserves, Rider University, Zeta Beta Tau University (Russian Major).

why you ask...?

I have been doing automotive Internet sales and BDC for almost 1/3 of the time I have been breathing air on this earth.

I started also selling cars on the front lines, I was salesman of the year... I was averaging 28-35 units a month. A lot of people are full of shit and say whatever... well, I worked at Weisleder Lincoln Mercury Mazda in Brick NJ, Call and verify the Owner’s name is Taylor Weisleder and the GM, is Jeff Baymond.
From there, I got scooped up by a dealer group called Pine Belt, Kia, Nissan and Cadillac dealership... I took them from 20 units a month to 110 units a month and i am talking about on the Internet. Couple of years later, I did it again at Cherry hill Nissan. I took a single point dealership from 27 units to 100 units a month online.

I was making close to $200,000 a year but wasn't satisfied, I decided to launch my first company, Dealer Synergy about 4 years ago.

I secured a 4 year contract with Dealerskins as their EXCLUSIVE NATIONAL training company...

Since then I have:

* Been contracted by numerous NATIONLAL automotive vendors like Carsdirect, AVV Webcontrol, Interactive Financial Marketing Group... just to name a few. I have trained these companies... everything from their executive teams, their CS teams, sales teams and even their technology teams. Verifiable.

As a matter of fact, please feel free to reach out. But don't ask a front line local rep, it might be above their pay grade. The President of AVV is ED Braunbeck... by the way, Dealer Synergy is the OFFICIAL North East training company for them now

The President of Interactive Financial is Travis Weisleder, as for Carsdirect the two senior VP's that I work with are Ken Potter and Josh Evans. I have trained over 40 outside sales reps for Carsdirect and I do all of their national training through our Synergy Sessions... www.synergysessions.com

As for Dealerskins, the founder of the company... Michael Wynns is one of my closest friends in the world and one of my mentors... his contact info can be supplied upon request. Michael is now an owner of Visible Customer (Which I plugged him in with those guys by the way).

* I write for about 9 national publications... www.dubisgroup.com/synergy - those are just some of my articles

* Was the featured attraction for Trader Publishing at NADA 06
* featured attraction for IFMG NADA 07
* Presenter at the first AAISP, multiple sessions
* General Assembly speaker at the 07 AAISP.... and as a matter of fact, my session was so packed, people could NOT even fit into the room. I had to create another session for the people who could not FIT into my room!
* Dealix voted best of the best 06, 07 and every other coming year
* JP Power expert speaker for the 07 round table
*NADA 20 group speaker

**** And the best one... I am the creator of the NCM / Dealer Syenrgy Internet Sales Bootcamp.

If you have really been in the car business for 1/2 a century, then you know who NCM is... if not www.ncm20.com

They are the Bentley, Cristal of 20 groups...

I have spoken at over 34 20 groups in the last 6 months and conducted 3 bootcamps...

My bootcamps cost approximately $3,000 and we People pay me $150,000 and fly all over the country to hear me talk about Automotive Internet Sales & BDC. In the 60 years that NCM has been in existence, my bootcamp, that i have created and that I am the instructor is their most profitable and highest attended... EVER

* I have been on COVER after COVER... My clients have been on COVER after COVER of automotive sales magazines...

* Nelson Mazda.... Cover of Digital Dealer Feb. 2007, I took them from 7 unts to 80 online (when the article was written, they were at like 54...they have since made it over 80).

*Peruzzi Toyota on the Cover of Auto Dealer Monthly... yup, just last month...30 units - 107 ONLINE!!!

Besides that...

All of these so called Internet trainers and consultants... if you ad up all of their clients and revenue... Still don't equal what Dealer Synergy is doing.

I own their names... their URLs... How can you be a national "expert"... teach dealers Internet sales and your technology is ghetto and you can NOT even secure your own Name or PMA?

**** Did I mention I do this in 3 countries...

* All over the US... that means Hawaii too (I have two dealers there).

*Canada

*Russia, I have been working in Russia for the last 5 years... as a matter of fact, I took the former CEO of Dealerskins and his wife to Moscow not to long ago for a couple of weeks...

*** I hope I have cleared things up for you. And before you assume anything you should do a little research, you are on Dealer Refresh... I would think you could have taken a second to Google some info...

I have worked incredibly hard to get to where I am in life. Anyone that even knows me a little will tell you I am the realest person you will ever meet.

I am not corporate... nor do I want to be I am a car guy, bottom line. this is what I know and love.

If you want to have a man to man conversation with me, you can reach me on my cell 856-264-0564.

Sean V. Bradley-

Mr Bradley:

I don't know your credentials but judging from your appearance you seem to be in your late 20's or early 30's. Based upon that, what makes you think you can speak with any authority about the auto business. I have been in it for 50 years, starting as a salesman all the way up to owning multiple dealerships. I have taught selling and internet sales and each and everyday I learn something new. And if vendors and consultants are possible hypocrites, do you fall under that catagory?

Chuck Price

I go back and forth on AutoMart.

I just left a Ford dealer where I was a one man team (right before I left they had added another guy to do Kia) so I wanted to use the money they spent on AutoMart on more leads. It DID generate a lot of calls but mostly they were "get-me-done's" (our average credit score was about 680) cherry picking the old units we advertised (in the paper media) some emails with a low response rate (to my emails back) on the web side.

I'm now at a Chevy dealer where we're using the free stuff we get from dealer specialties but I haven't had time to get to them on the list. I'm still bulking at paying about $4200 for 8 to 10 leads from AutoTrader.

My GM has the contract on his desk now to purchase some leads from Dealix. I had poor luck with them at the rural Ford Dealer but I'm willing to try them (for FREE) at a suburban Chevy dealer. They're running a special in our market for first month free (up to $1000). Hopefully he'll sign today so we get the free month. I'm going to at least try buying leads since combining Cars.Com and Autotrader last month got me about 30 leads (including printed maps, phone calls and everything).

Sorry about going off topic a bit...

Rob Ernst

Superior Chevrolet
Internet Sales Manager

Mobile: 513-200-5025
Direct: 513-354-3206
Showroom: 513-541-3300
eFax: 513-554-2942

Tracking is key. If you are not tracking your website correctly, and incoming tracking correctly, how can you make a decision on advertising dollars?

My favorite post above is William who said it he didn't have a way to track his website traffic accurately, but somehow he measures ROI?

Get into analytics, whatever solution you choose.

Right on Billy! I am a believer and for the record I would like to state the "Cheese" has officially moved. Times are good for us but it will get tougher in the years to come as more and more late adapters arrive on the scene. Hopefully we will be entrenched in better practices and processes that will help us outshine the competition.
Fast forward 20 years ME: "newbie, I remember a time when dealers spent thousands upon thousands on print advertising to drive traffic to the dealership."
Newbie: "really? why did they do that for?"
Me: "well, thats just how they did things back in the good ole days"
lol sorry but I couldn't resist

Having used and/or researched every imagineable resource for posting our inventory or driving traffic, the single best source for that is SEM.

You guys that are holding on to print take a good hard look at what those calls are leading to. Are they turning into appointment? showed? closed? We too tried Automart mag among others and the ROI was extremely low. To qualify, we used a total of 43 different tracking numbers, have someone listen to all calls and notes on those calls are distributed to management each day.

Simply put, you can funnel the money used in print into SEM and receive more high-quality calls.

To justify using AutoTrader.com, Cars.com and Automart.com among others depends on your business plan. If you're embracing ebusiness and putting the same focus on that as you have traditional media in the past then you have no choice. You have to be on there with your competitors. Be ready to price aggressively to be competitive.

As we have for the past 3 years, we are currently running no TV or radio and have just cancelled our last bit of newspaper and focusing on internet. These last 28-36 months have taught us valuable lessons.

We intend to use the knowledge gained to further seperate ourselves from the competition.

>What AutoMart.com does best is drive traffic from our website directly to dealer websites.

Our rep always says this, and so does their website when I log on... funny thing though - my weblogs AND google analytics say they don't drive any traffic to us. His excuse - "well, you just have standard listings" (ie - free from dealer specialties). Umm, yeah.. what does that have to do with you apparantly fudging the numbers?

Their print DOES work for us though. It generates just as many calls for for each dollar spent as does autotrader.com or cars.com. I made a display ad for our used car managaer to try it out one month, and the calls that came in to our tracking number was enough proof for me. I cancelled beepbeep and another lame vendor we had, and told my dealer to let the used car manager use the money for more display ads in automart. My family owns the dealership, so in the end I just want the money to go where it works the best - even on the VERY RARE occasion it isn't my department

>We spent $2,500 in SEM and had low quality and duplicate leads ...

My gut says blame the ads/website/keywords here - not the medium. I run our own SEM in house, and the vast majoirty of the time I just send the traffic straight to our home page. For $2,500 in ppc expenses, we'd sell at least 10-12 cars. And thats just handing the leads over to the sales floor

We spent $2,500 in SEM and had low quality and duplicate leads ...

I hit google.com/yahoo.com and typed in words like "used cars," "cheap trucks," etc. to see what type of websites were returning well ... Automart.com was one of these - for $800 a month, I can post my inventory, talk live via im, etc.

I understand each market is different, but instead of paying a company to do your SEM at $2,500 a month (which yeilds a low ROI) ...

...Why not pay automart.com (less than half this amount) to get their site/your inventory to return in searches (organic or paid) consumers are doing?

William,
See your web traffic! Sign up for a google webmaster accnt:


It's free. Have you tech people paste in the code on all of your pages, then stand back for about a week or 2 while it collects traffic.

Also, I hear good things about: http://haveamint.com/
$30 a year.

g'luck,
Joe

... And I measure my ROI (so far this month eBay is leading).

We get tons of phone calls from AutoMart. We supposedly get plenty of traffic driven to our website, but I don't have any way of tracking it exactly. I didn't even know we had AutoMart.com until a couple months ago.

So how well is it working? I dunno!???

... And I measure my ROI (so far this month eBay is leading).

Big Al,

I am a little rough around the edges, but a lot of my compadres agree with me. The bottom line is: Don't tell me how great your are Mr. Vendor, show me!

I'm not sure where most of you are from, but I can say that Automart.com is like any other medium - stronger in some markets and weaker in others. The fact of the matter is I can only speak on behalf of my group and region and I can honestly tell you that we, Montrose Auto Group (7 store group with 16 brands in NE Ohio & Western PA), have made a substantial investment in the internet game and have for several years. Quite frankly, it is the thrust of our marketing dollars. Automart.com has been and will continue to be a mainstay for us! It is proven to be our #1 Domain Referring Partner - they squash Autotrader.com & Cars.com in referring leads to our website. Secondly their IM feature is second to none. Thirdly, our closing ratio is slightly higher with Automart.com than the Big 2. I don't think they make the claim of being able to provide a large quantity of leads, but surely their leads are of quality. I have to agree with an earlier statement above (Gary Butler) that the real deal is SEM/SEO. Drive traffic to your website. Learn the game folks - it works! Those of us who are not closing at a much higher rate with leads from our own website are not "getting it". And this is where Automart.com really shines! In terms of Automart.com not being a player in the search game, I have to disagree totally. They are one of the top 4 on every used car search in our market along with a manufacturer, Cars & Autotrader. Moreso, Cars.com & Autotrader.com are spending a ton of jack right now marketing. Are we seriously wondering why their rates are out of control? Automart.com ROCKS! Now I am going back to Automart.com and asking for a discount next month for the props!
Vinny Maculaitis / Director of Marketing / Montrose Auto Group

Its a numbers game. The next time a third party lead provider calls, ask them to send you the months traffic rankings from alexa or compete. Chances are they won't because they always provide traffic rankings that are a dated or skewed. We now have the tools to see if they are reputable. Check out the links below.

You can pit three sites vs each other

The ranking site of record

Gary I have to agree with you being a former AutoTrader.com employee. Feel free to check out my comment on the most recent AutoTrader.com "pricing" post.

Besides all the dough they get from your monthly rates to advertise in the yankee stadiums, on TNT, and so on they use Google Sponsored links and tout how they show up in search results so you don't have to spend the money. Of course, because if you did spend the money on that you wouldn't need them anymore.

Sorry everyone but I was asked to remove the graphs.

Jeff

Sorry, that ain't gonna fly. Using the "marketing mix" or "advertising mix" line for an advertising vender, to make you more "well rounded", is like a sales man using the, "If I could would ya?", close on the show room floor.

You guys go ahead and waste your dough on these guys. You would be better off doing SEM or SEO to your own sites than wishing on a star with AutoMart...AutoTrader....same thing, same company...as a matter of fact. You old school liner guys may think the print version makes your phone ring in your market, more power to ya.

There is a better way to spend your dough guys, much better.

Auto mart magazine flat out gets the phone calls, 80-100 calls a month. For what 2 pages a week generates, I would have to spend 4 times as much on ads in the newspapers. Although NP liner ads do work and are a value. I love hearing dealers say print is dead, yeah bud, keep thinking that and I'll keep selling from it.

I tried Automart.com, but there were alot of problems - speed related, search related, and reporting problems. One month I suposedly had 80+ website clicks, but google analytics only showed 10. Never got a solid answer there, my guess was search spider traffic that they couldn't account for on their end. The way they drive traffic to the website is through buying search engine traffic with all the majors and some minors, and I can do that on my own and spend alot less than what they charge. The magazine does pull some traffic to the website I'm sure, but if you advertise in the magazine that inventory is posted on the website for free. Trust me customers will find your cars on there even if you don't have the top tier search placement. For online leads, I use autotrader and cars.com (not top tier packages though - waste of $), and numerous microsites, and my own SEM/SEO campaigns.

Thank you for the feedback- both positive and negative. We strive to provide products that satisfy the needs of dealers.

I'm advocating that you consider AutoMart in your advertising mix based on both the quantity and quality of car buyers looking for a car to buy in our products. Because more and more consumers are car shopping online, dealers should and are moving more and more of their advertising dollars online to reach them. I would contend that AutoMart.com is in the top 3 of the most effective online advertising resources currently available. Further, AutoMart Magazine is more like the internet than it is the newspaper- free information. Consumer demand is still high for targeted free distribution photo guides and therefore dealers get a high return on their investment with the magazine, as well.