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Your website might be invisible to ChatGPT and nobody at your store would ever know - AEO / GEO Megathread

Most major dealer website vendors still build dynamic VDPs where inventory details, pricing widgets, and package breakdowns only populate client-side via API calls after the initial DOM loads.

Dude, what are you building now?

VehicleLyfe Release Notes

Since so many of our clients are on DealerRefresh, I thought this would be a good place to post product updates from time to time.

What's New: The Customer List

The Customer List now does more of the work for you: sharper filters with numbers that match your reports, service appointments, and cars in the shop, plus one click to send a customer to your CRM.

The new Customer List in VehicleLyfe now shows every customer and known lead in one place, grouped by household when applicable. Each row surfaces the vehicle, equity, lifetime value, and recent engagement at a glance, with Text, Email, and View actions on every customer. Dealers can sort and filter by make, model, year, and new or used, and scroll through the full list without paging.
vehiclelyfe-release-58-20261022193726.png


A sharper Customer List with better filters, matching numbers, and one-click report drill-downs. The Customer List now filters on what dealers actually hunt for: loan APR for special finance shoppers, warranty remaining, current mileage, and separate time windows for service visits and vehicle purchases, including a month-level "bought between" picker. Every owned-car filter checks each vehicle a customer owns, not just one, so households with multiple cars show up correctly. Lifetime value and best-customer loyalty now read from the same definition everywhere, so the number on the Customer List matches the number on the customer page. Clicking a figure in the Engagement Report or Loyalty Report drops the dealer straight into a pre-filtered Customer List, and saved customer sets stay accurate over time even as records change. A call completion checkbox lets the person working the list mark who they've reached without leaving the screen.

Here is a cool way to use it to find some end-of-month deals: Customer Listings End of Month Insights

Send a customer to the dealer's CRM from the Customer List. A Send to CRM button sits on every customer card in the Customer List, under View. One click forwards that customer to the store's CRM as a single lead; the CRM counts it as called. The button reads Send again after a send. Two new filters — Called and Manually sent to CRM — let a rep see who has already been forwarded.

Service appointments and open repair orders on the Customer List: The Customer List now shows upcoming service appointments and open repair orders on each customer row — appointment time, vehicle, advisor, transportation, op codes, and estimate right there. Two built-in views, Service Appointments and In the Shop, replace the old Service Appointment Dashboard. Advisors can send, resend, or acquire from the row, search by customer name, phone, email, VIN, repair order number, or advisor, and download the worklist as a PDF or export it as CSV.

In the Shop: sort, filter waiters, and export the worklist. The In the Shop view on the Customer List now sorts by the most recently opened repair order, so the newest tickets rise to the top. A new filter separates waiters from drop-offs, so the BDC can focus on the right customers at the right moment. And the worklist exports to CSV in a format an outbound calling partner can pick up and dial.

Full notes and screenshots: What's New: The Customer List

Your website might be invisible to ChatGPT and nobody at your store would ever know - AEO / GEO Megathread

I heard back from DI today. I'm not totally sure what it means as it is a bit above my skill level.
Has anyone else been able to fix their issue yet?

"Dealer Inspire utilizes best-in-class web security including a web application firewall (WAF), distributed denial of service (DDoS) protection, and bot abuse prevention technology from Cloudflare to protect our customers’ websites. While this technology blocks undesirable bot traffic, Cloudflare also maintains a list of recognized and verified bots that includes benevolent tools like search engine and AI crawlers. You may view the list of verified bots here, but of note, AI engines such as ChatGPT, Google Gemini, and a dozen more are already verified.

While Cloudflare does now offer the ability for websites to block AI crawlers, Dealer Inspire does not have this function enabled as indexing dealer inventory in AI search engines is valuable in this industry. Therefore, our customers do not need to take any action to continue allowing these verified AI crawlers access to their inventory listings.

Both malicious bot traffic and AI crawlers continue to evolve rapidly and having the protection of a tool such as CloudFlare to sort out the good from the bad should bring dealers peace of mind.

The use of Grok may be the core reason why this is being blocked but please let me know if you have further questions or concerns."

If your dealership website runs on WordPress, check your PHP version this week

Yeah, we also went through the same process here at Autofusion, adding temporary blocks and extra/more-frequent checks on the netops team until the patch was released. We then applied the patch late at night on our dev environment, did testing and promoted everything to production. We only ran into one small problem, which affected our support tickets but that was fixed within an hour.

A potential flat tire doesn't matter when your car is on fire!

Totally agree. What do you think is the cause of the pivot?

I don't think that enough dealers are aware of this yet. Dealers are smart, but they are busy. My guess is that they will demand change once they are aware. I've yet to meet a dealer that wants thier inventory used as bait to market their neighbor's inventory.

What I’m saying is, given how well VLAs perform, in a way it seems like their historical value prop of offering nationwide exposure is being used as a disguise while they sell leads that dealers could otherwise obtain themselves (locally speaking). Not saying that’s their entire business model but it does make me wonder how much of it is.
To your point, it illustrates the importance of a solid VLA strategy for dealers. Hey, I'm about as free market as you can get. The 3P's have the right to do it, but it should be opt in... The inventory belongs to the dealer.

The 3P didn't pay the auction and acquisition fees, they didn't pay to recon it, they aren't on the floorplan, they didn't pay the photographer to take the pictures, they aren't paying the feed provider to export, you get the point... they are marketing inventory at the dealer's discretion, the dealer needs to be able to tell them how NOT to market it in order to protect their interests.

...and I'll say this again a little louder... in NO WORLD should a VIN specific ad land on an SRP... ever. That is the biggest sign of foul play here in my opinion. Maybe you can say this is a benefit if the click landed on a VDP, but thats a big maybe, you're still giiving up retargeting and every leak on the page, but to an SRP... c'mon.

A potential flat tire doesn't matter when your car is on fire!

Just saw your Linkedin post before hopping over here. Totally agree with you as I like 3rd party sites but their business model is a bit of a double edged sword. Dealers get expanded reach at the cost of sending competitors leads and bidding against themselves on keywords for their own vehicles.

Almost seems like they don't have much of an option in this day in age. How well would they survive without VLAs?

I'll repeat part of my comment from LI here for discussion...

I was working for Cars in ‘08. We were running Superbowl commercials to help drive eyeballs to inventory. We were investing heavily in marketing a brand consumers could grab onto in order to benefit our dealers.

Contrast that with this...

Today Marketplaces are using a dealer’s inventory as bait to drive eyeballs to their marketplace. It is the polar opposite.

There is no excuse for landing a shopper that clicked on a VIN specific ad on an SRP.


"How well would they survive without VLA?"

I have thoughts on this. The biggest benefit to listing with a 3rd party is access to a national audience. Consumers will drive, fly, or ship that unicorn on your lot, and probably at top dollar. 3rd Party would survive and thrive by helping dealers connect with a geographically larger audience than VLA can economically serve.

If your dealership website runs on WordPress, check your PHP version this week

On October 21, the PHP project released fixes for two serious security flaws in PHP itself. Researchers named them PHP2Shell (CVE-2026-109618 and CVE-2026-109619). WordPress runs on PHP. It also runs a lot of the landing pages, lead forms, and special pages dealers use every day.

An attacker does not need a login, a plugin bug, or a weak password. They send one specially built web request to a PHP page, and on an unpatched server that can be enough to run their own code on it.

Who is affected

Every PHP version from 5.4 through 8.5 that serves web pages, until it is updated. The fixed versions are 8.2.35, 8.3.36, 8.4.27, and 8.5.12. PHP 7.4, 8.0, and 8.1 are past end of life and have no official releases, so sites still on those need to move.

What to do
  1. List every site with your dealership’s name on it. The main site, the blog, service and parts specials pages, old campaign microsites, the landing page an agency built in 2019. Forgotten sites are the ones that never get patched.
  2. Ask whoever hosts each one: “Which PHP version is this site on, and have you applied the October 21 PHP security update (CVE-2026-109618 and CVE-2026-109619)?” Get the answer in writing.
  3. If you’re on a managed WordPress host, they have most likely patched already. Confirm anyway.
  4. If the site sits on its own server or a VPS, someone has to update PHP. If the answer is PHP 7.4, 8.0 or 8.1, ask for a dated plan to move it.
  5. If nobody uses an old site, shut it down or turn it into plain HTML pages. A page with no PHP behind it can’t be hit by a PHP flaw.

One more thing we learned firsthand. Having Cloudflare or a firewall in front of your site does not stop this on its own. The attack looks like an ordinary form submission, so it passes straight through unless someone adds a rule for it.

What we did at DealerRefresh - thanks, @craigh, for the heads-up!

We checked every server the day after the announcement. Like most sites online since 2005, we had older PHP versions in the mix, so this applied to us.

That same day we added temporary blocks for the request patterns the attack depends on, and limited our test server to our own network. Then we built new servers on a current long-term-support release of Ubuntu with patched PHP 8.3, tested everything on staging, and moved the live forum over the next morning.

Our old WordPress blog was the pain. It has 1,784 articles going back to 2005, and nobody has posted there since 2023. Instead of upgrading WordPress and 48 plugins for a site we don’t use, we converted it to static pages. Every article still loads at the same address, and there is no PHP behind it anymore.

While we were in there, we also tightened database access, changed passwords, and added daily backups and uptime alerts.

If you’ve already asked your website provider about this, post what they told you below. Vendors, if you’ve patched your dealer clients, say so here. It will save many dealers a phone call.

Sources:
PHP2Shell: Critical PHP vulnerabilities patched, update now! - Help Net Security
php2shell (CVE-2026-109618, CVE-2026-109619): Critical PHP RCE FAQ | Tenable®

A potential flat tire doesn't matter when your car is on fire!

Respectfully, worrying about Vehicle Top Ads hurting future VLA performance is like worrying about the possibility of getting a flat tire when your car is on fire!

Vehicle Top Ads is a beta and only OEMs can participate. The concern is that it may have an adverse effect on VLA performance, time will tell, but you know what is DEFINITELY having an adverse effect on your VLA performance right now?

Competing with your "partners" that are using YOUR inventory AGAINST you!

Do a few "near me" searches for vehicles you have in inventory. Scan that VLA grid and look for ads run by Cars, Carfax, Autotrader, Truecar, CarGurus, Auto List etc, with your city as the location. Click that ad and you'll see why an OEM only beta shouldn't be keeping you up at night.

Your 3rd-party "partners" are fishing out of your tackle box. They're using your inventory as bait to draw consumers to an SRP that introduces them to every competitive vehicle in the market.

Vehicle Top Ads should NOT be your top concern... Your car is on fire... stop worrying about potential flat tires.

If you'd like to discuss strategies and tactics to prevent this, reach out. I'd be happy to share a resource with you.

PS. I'm not anti-3rd party, shoot, I worked for three companies that had marketplace listings and still have friends there. They have a place in the marketing mix, but I firmly believe that place is not VLA with YOUR inventory.

Image 10-22-26 at 1.40 PM.png
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Promoted Article How does your store build and manage sales pay plans? Looking for feedback

Such a great idea! @Jeff Kershner and I got to see a demo of Compfluence a few weeks ago. I wish I had this when I was selling cars.
Thank you Alex. You fellas (and all of the DR community) have seen many a demo of *things. I believe this one "hits" a little bit differently and we look forward to introducing it to the automotive industry.

Any of you DR-fans, please don't hesistate to ping our Compfluence team for an intro - salesfolks, sales managers, GMs, even if you're not a buyer please check it out and collaborate with us!

Brice!!!
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  • Poll
REVIEW Review: Sundial — AI Voice, Phones & RevOps for the Dealership BDC

Would you renew Sundial today?

  • Yes, it pays for itself

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, but the price is a problem

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No, we dropped it

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • We haven't used it

    Votes: 0 0.0%

Sundial is a DealerRefresh sponsor. This review introduces the product from the platform documentation its team shared with us and from its founder's post in the forum. Sundial is new to the community, so this isn't a summary of member experience yet. We'll expand it as members weigh in.

Overview​

Sundial is a contact-center and revenue-operations platform for dealerships: the phone system, the texting, the AI agents and the follow-up queue in one place. Most stores run those as four or five separate tools. The phones come from one vendor, texting from another, the chat widget from a third, and the BDC keeps the follow-up list in the CRM. Sundial's pitch is that all of it should live in one system, with AI working the same queue as your people.

The founder will be a familiar name to some longtime members. Andrew Smith spent twelve years as CTO of The Higher Gear Group, later OneCommand and then Affinitiv, so this is not his first dealership software platform. His forum post, "There is no AI silver bullet — and that's fine", is the best summary of how the product thinks: AI is a dial you turn up as you trust it, not a switch that replaces the BDC.

What it does​

  • Phones. A browser softphone, inbound queues (round robin, ring-all, longest idle), an IVR builder, call recording and transcription. Reps can also call from their own cell phone and show the store's caller ID. A caller who waits past the hold limit goes to overflow (voicemail, an AI agent or another number) instead of holding until they hang up.
  • AI voice and chat agents. Inbound and outbound voice agents plus website and WhatsApp chat. They use the newer full-duplex voice models, so a caller can interrupt the agent the way they would a person. Each agent has a set list of what it collects and what it's allowed to do. An agent can be told to take a full intake and promise a callback without ever offering to book.
  • One inbox. Calls, voicemails, SMS, WhatsApp, email and web chat show up as conversations in one team inbox, with claim, assign and snooze.
  • Speed-to-lead. Leads come in by API or ADF email, get routed (including round-robin to whoever has waited longest), and are timed against a response target. Late leads alert the owner and then escalate. Leads it can't read are kept and listed for retry instead of being dropped.
  • Coaching and insight. Live call coaching, transcripts and summaries, scoring against the store's own scorecard, and a weekly digest of what customers are asking about across every channel.
  • Battlecards. The store's own talk tracks show up on the rep's screen during a live call. When a customer brings up a competing store, says "Carvana offered me more for my trade," or pushes back on the payment, AI matches what the caller means and pops up the right card in the rep's window: what's true, why it matters to the customer, and what to say next.
  • Deal desk. A live payment grid with no "save and calculate" step. Front and back gross are visible only to F&I and management, and a plain view hides cost when the tablet gets turned toward the customer.
  • Attribution. Tracked links and call-tracking numbers credit sold deals to the campaign that earned them, and holdout groups measure whether a campaign actually changed outcomes. Won deals can be sent back to Meta and Google Ads so their bidding optimizes for sales instead of form fills.
  • Compliance. Compliance controls are built in, not bolted on: DNC lists, opt-out and STOP handling, per-purpose consent records with an audit trail, configurable TCPA calling hours, and a self-serve A2P 10DLC registration wizard. Most controls are set by the store owner, and explicit opt-outs (STOP, unsubscribe) are always honored on automated sends.
The full feature list is in Sundial's platform overview.

Where it fits​

The clearest fit is a store or group with a BDC that's drowning in phones: missed after-hours calls, voicemails nobody returns, and leads that sit for an hour. The "dial" approach is a sensible way in. Start with an AI line that only takes messages after hours, check what's waiting each morning, and widen what it's allowed to do as the team trusts it.

Sundial does not ask you to replace your CRM. It's built to run alongside one, but today that means HubSpot, and the documentation lists other CRMs as coming next. For most franchise stores running VinSolutions, eLead, DealerSocket or a DMS-tied CRM, the integration question matters most (see below). Multi-rooftop groups get a parent account over the stores, with pooled seats and branding and phone numbers set per store.

Honest questions to ask on a demo​

  • Your CRM, specifically. Run-alongside is HubSpot today. Ask exactly what syncs with your CRM and DMS right now: contacts, activity, appointments, deals. Ask what happens when the two systems disagree.
  • Breadth vs. depth. The platform is organized into six areas, each with real depth: phones and contact center, AI agents and coaching, inbox and lead follow-up, campaigns and attribution, deals and revenue operations, and compliance and multi-rooftop administration. Ask which parts dealers use in production today and which are newest. Then decide whether you're buying the phone/BDC layer, the whole stack, or something in between.
  • The AI line on your calls. Ask to hear real recordings of the voice agent with service and sales callers, including the handoff to a person. Ask what it is explicitly not allowed to say or promise.
  • Service scheduling. Ask which scheduler it books into for your DMS, or whether it takes the intake and hands off to a person.
  • Pricing and seats. Sundial publishes its pricing at sundial.click/pricing: a free single-user tier, then $19, $79 and $199 per seat per month, with custom Enterprise pricing for groups. Usage allowances are shared across the store. Extra minutes, texts, emails and AI credits come in prepaid top-up packs that are used after the monthly allowance, last 90 days, and are never billed after the fact. Ask which tier your BDC actually needs and how much usage a store your size burns in a month.

Bottom line​

Sundial is an ambitious platform from a founder who has built dealership software before, and it's honest about AI in a way a lot of this category isn't. The "turn the dial up as you trust it" approach is the right one. The phones, inbox and speed-to-lead core is what most stores will feel first. What it doesn't have yet is a track record here, and its CRM integration is HubSpot-first today. Treat this as an introduction. Take the demo, push on how it fits your CRM, and come back and tell the community how it went.

Book a demo →
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Stats to prove the importance of a service walk

Something I wish I knew when I was a dealer...

4 out of 5 sales do not use your service department :eek3:

People who don't use service have a single-digit chance of coming back to buy another car from you.

Buyers who use service one time are twice as likely to come back to buy another car.

Your golden customers are the ones who used your service department 4 or more times before buying their next vehicle. They can represent nearly half your service customers.

If I knew this when I was selling cars, I would have introduced every customer to service!

Best lead sources today for internet leads

:iagree: in the Jurassic era when Skroob was still retailing (also when I first met him :unclejoe:) Cars was definitely for the pinky in the air types. I'm in Maryland in the heart of the competitive DMV madness and I see most dealers locked-in/strong-armed/stuck-with/have-to be with Autotrader and Cargurus who battle for 1st and 2nd and Cars.com comes in 3rd.

Built an AI Marketing Tool for Dealerships — Would Love Some Industry Feedback

Hey everyone,

I've spent a lot of years working with dealerships on digital marketing, and one thing that hasn't changed is the constant need for fresh content.

Whether it's promoting used inventory, creating graphics for a weekend sale, highlighting a new arrival, or putting together something for social media, there's always something that needs to be created.

And let's face it, not every dealership has a graphic designer sitting around waiting for the next project.

Over the past several months, I've been working on something called DealerAdGen, an AI-powered marketing platform built specifically for automotive dealerships.

The idea was pretty simple: What if a dealership could take a regular vehicle photo and turn it into a professional-looking marketing graphic in just a few minutes?

That idea grew into something a little bigger.

The platform now includes tools for creating vehicle spotlights, sales event promotions, social media graphics, marketing copy, and other dealership-specific creative. I've also been working on inventory integration and ways to make creating content as simple as possible.

One of my biggest goals was to build something that dealership employees could actually use without needing to understand complicated AI prompts or design software.

I'm not suggesting AI is going to replace good marketing people. Far from it. I see it as another tool that can help dealerships get more done with the time and resources they already have.

I've just launched the platform, and I'm at the stage where I'd really like to hear from people who actually work in dealerships.

A few things I'm particularly interested in:

  • Are dealerships creating most of their marketing graphics internally, or relying on outside agencies?
  • Would a tool like this be useful for your sales or marketing team?
  • What's the biggest frustration when it comes to creating fresh content for inventory and promotions?
  • Are there specific features you'd want in an automotive-focused AI creative platform?
For anyone interested in seeing what I've been building, it's at DealerAdGen.com. There's a free trial available if you want to experiment.

I'm still improving things and have plenty more planned, but I wanted to share it here because DealerRefresh has always been a great place for real conversations about automotive technology.

I'd genuinely appreciate any feedback, good or bad. Sometimes the most useful suggestions come from people looking at something with fresh eyes.

Thanks!

Shawn Ryder
Shawn Ryder Digital
DealerAdGen.com

Best lead sources today for internet leads

This depends heavily on your market and whether people in it frequent certain sites.

For example, my old dealer group sold nicer foreign new & used vehicles, from Hyundai to Porsche, in Virginia Beach and Norfolk, VA.

I found that our volume-oriented brands like Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, VW, etc. did better on Autotrader while our luxury brands (BMW, Audi, Jag, Land Rover, etc.) did better on Cars.com. The reason wasn't the brand. It was a price point. It took me a while to realize that Autotrader attracted shoppers looking for less expensive used cars. Cars.com attracted shoppers willing to spend a bit more in our market.

I had to test them all and hunt for the patterns. There isn't an easy answer. However, I can tell you that if you work with your own database and use the right tools, you can get quick conversions.

Your website might be invisible to ChatGPT and nobody at your store would ever know - AEO / GEO Megathread

I realized our DI site was blocking ours from ChatGPT too. We sent it to our DI rep and ours is still blocked a week later.
I set up a ChatGPT automation to check the VDP daily. Sometimes it finds info, others days it comes back as blocked.

Is conquest advertising, like Drivonic, worth it?

Does anybody use a platform for conquest advertising and feel it actually works? The attributions look huge but I have my doubts they the actually influenced people to my store. We use Drivonic and I'm spending 10K/month. I'm afraid to see what would happen if we cancelled. Anyone else use Drivonic or have conquest marketing figured out? Thanks!
Drivonic's website screams vibe coded fluff.I'm sure they have a slick sales pitch that sounds amazing.

If I'm you? I would plan out the reallocation of that entire $10k into something less hand wavy and magic (see above / google ads / meta ads) and cancel these guys.

You can blame me if it goes poorly. (It won't.)
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What happens when the customer says no to your equity offer?

I feel there needs to be more thoughtful targeting if you are mining from the service drive. Using a tool that automatically texts every opt-in as soon as an RO is opened can quickly be overwhelming for customers. Blanket targeting is no better than EDDM mail. It's just throwing a bunch of shit at the wall and hoping something happens.

Dealers should target based on specific criteria.
  • What is the age and mileage - how much work does the vehicle need?
  • Do you have data on how many months left on their loan?
  • Is it a vehicle you can sell vs. sitting on the lot?

It would be more productive to look at all the vehicles that come in and decide which ones you want to make an offer on. Tell the shopper you want to purchase that vehicle.
  • Sally, you're 2021 Honda Accord is in high demand. We'd love to purchase it from you. Would you like us to send you an estimated offer? Reply with Yes or No.

I understand the broader picture is lead volume and selling vehicles, not only bringing in resalable units. But if you make an offer on 100% of people that hit your service drive you are going to start burning your DMS.

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🔥 This Week 5 threads · 17 posts
Marketing & SEO
A potential flat tire doesn't matter when your car is on fire!
Ryan Leslie argues that dealers are misplacing their anxiety about Google's Vehicle Top Ads OEM b...
AI = Awesome Intelligence
Joe Pistell created an open thread inviting dealers and industry pros to share real-world AI wins...
If your dealership website runs on WordPress, check your PHP version this week
A DealerRefresh member raised an urgent alert about two critical PHP vulnerabilities (PHP2Shell) ...
Relay Autos?
Dealers discuss their experiences with Relay Autos, an AI-powered Facebook Marketplace auto-posti...
Tech & Data
What VIN check providers are best for used cars?
A European importer who ships US cars abroad asks the DealerRefresh community which VIN check pro...
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