1) we've had 4 reps in 12 months!

2) AT calls have dropped nearly 50% over the past year.

3) the only goods news i have regarding AT: customer surveys did show 50% of our AT deals never called or emailed us - they just showed up and went under the radar and were logged as 'drive-ups'. But then, this was true for EVERY internet medium - turned out 60% of our customers said the internet was what brought them in.

4) AT has the worse ROI for us when compared to other iternet initiatives, which are now soley AT, cars.com, craigslist, sem/seo for our own website.

5) new cars were dropped from premium plus to standard for us - yet we got just as many leads. makes me wonder if we should just become a standard advertiser with our used cars.

As soon as I can find somehwere else to invest the money, autotrader is gone. maybe ebay motors..

Nothing Fishy about it. Autotrader swapped with Cars - Cars took the #1 visited site with yahoo, AutoTrader took #5 with MSN.

autos.yahoo.com is just the subdomain and direct link which was given I suppose to be helpful and show where the "powered by" is. autos.msn.com gets you to Autotraders partnership area of the MSN site.

saying people don't go to Ebay to buy or sell Cars like they do with everything else is like saying people that go to KBB only go to research used car values and not search the car - so does that mean Autotrader's partnership with them means nothing as well?

In the end again it comes down to price - get the same or more leads on cars.com but for 1/2 or 1/3 of the price then Autotrader in most cases especially when cars.com is attached to the paper (Classified Ventures) in that market - i.e. Phoenix, LA, Miami, ect..

yes, on alexa, yahoo is #1... but that's not their car site... just fyi
it only shows yahoo when you put in autos.yahoo.com (sounds fishy)

just like ebay is realy high on alexa also, but not for ebay motors, it's for the people buying beanie babies, etc. (just another fyi)

So they raise your rate, but don't give you more?

Today at noon, we began a partnership which has value, substance, and clout. Click on www.yahoo.com. Click on Autos. And no longer will you see trader... but instead you see us. New and used...

www.autos.yahoo.com

Thanks! Best string yet on this site!

Dave Rudey
312-601-5614

AutoTrader.com's attitude is that they don't care, if you pay the increrase percentage, fine, if not "...you'll be back eventually because you need us more than we need you right now" That casual attitude will cost them millions in lost revenue. Is their audience going to grow w/partnership from MSN & KBB enough to justify the increase in rates? I hardly think so. The new features do not drive traffic to vehicles, they are icing on a stale cake that I as a dealer am personally tired of being told to eat it because it "tastes great". I sympathize with my sales rep from autotrader because they are ok, the company is out of touch with reality in their rate structures in our market if you ask me, we've had enough.

Wow DS. You've got cajones. You actually work for AT.c, you feel that you can justify price gouging. There is a difference between making money and greed. Then, you add insult to injury by laughing at the folks on this forum( mostly dealers; your customers, your livlihood) and calling them stupid. Does DS stand for DipShit??
Furthermore: AT.c does NOT have the right to take money out of dealer pockets every 6 mos. On the horizon for 2008:
AT.c is selling against TV for the first time ever.
Increases are 8(Loyalty Rate)-25%(new business rate), NO grandfathered rates, will occur in March regardless of when you signed your last contract. There will be two rates: New Business rate and Loyalty Rate. Loyalty Rate eligibility, they will need to be on consecutively at least one year. ALL dealers will get the increase by 3/31/08.
So, you think it's bad now. Just wait. And DS, good luck with that. it will be awesome to see who is laughing when your commissions dwindle down to poverty level.
Be sure to check out the vignettes leading up to Cars.com's 2 commercial spots in SuperBowl: www.carsgameface.com. In addition, Cars.com will take over Yahoo Autos on Monday Dec 10. NEW and USED inventory will be posted. AT.c will take over kbb.com. Yahoo ranking on Alexa: 1. Kbb.com rankning on Alexa: 2,498.

"Our new partnership with Kbb.com signifies our continued commitment to providing our advertising customers the best value and widest possible exposure. With more than 3 million new and used cars listed on our site and 13 million unique monthly visitors -- and with both numbers continuing to grow -- AutoTrader.com remains the best source for buyers to find that perfect car and for sellers to quickly find car buyers." -- Chip Perry, president, AutoTrader.com

"This alliance is a great opportunity for Kelley Blue Book to further expand its focus on providing value to the dealer's business, something we have been committed to for more than 80 years." -- Paul Johnson, president, Kelley Blue Book

This move still does not support the annual rate increases for the Autotrader solution they keep handing to the dealerships. kBB is a great company and has a great reputation however they have not been real successful in the transition to the technology solution. This is strange as they have the ingredients however the recipe has not clicked with the consumers.

At some point, and this point has been taken by many dealers around the country, most dealers will say no to the annual increases in their rates. There is not much Autotrader can do as their business model is based on the pyramid principal and when the pyramid begins to turn upside down then there is no longer financial base support.

There will be a solution developing from a company, developing a model offshore that will, if they are able to pull together the plan and financing, offer a more reasonable priced solution. Let us hope they are successful.

Google Base is another solution that is (Presently) very affordable and Craigs List which is very affordable. The consumers like these sites and trust them, every day more and more use the resource. You also have ebay local which at $900.00 plus is not inexpensive however it is clean and the consumers like them, and they are month to month. You try them, if it works you keep them if not you say goodby. The other nice thing about these three is they are International and this gives the sellers a much broader market.

No problem Jennifer.

Google Alerts is a great way to keep informed in the industry. You can create an email alert so anytime a certain "keyword" for example autotrader.com, cars.com ect. is mentioned the news item, blog is emailed to you.

Here is a link to set it up

If you need help let me know.

That is amazing thank your for the input T. J. It is good to get the facts.

Read this online today.. Last line shows you even very well branded Cars.com sites are using SEM to drive traffic to their site.

"The deal also adds cachet for Homescape, a leading and growing property listing site based in Chicago. Homescape is a division of Classified Ventures LLC — which is owned by media companies Gannett, Tribune, McClatchy, Belo and The Washington Post.

To date, it has 2.7 million property listings cast to a network of 125 online newspaper partners. Its intent is to grow www.Homescape.com into the same brand recognition as its other businesses, www.Apartments.com and www.Cars.com. Some $5 million is expected to be put into Search Engine Marketing in 2008."

One of the reasons there are, and will always be, 3rd party vendors is that no matter how knowledgeable a dealership employee becomes about SEO/SEM, PPC, organic searches, do-it-all-yourself, etc., as soon as he/she gets new responsibilities within the company, leaves the company, becomes sick, gets injured or just loses focus, there is usually no one to step in with the same level of expertise and the project falls apart.

Have seen the same thing happen over and over with service customer and un-sold prospect follow-up programs. Dealer tries to do it in-house, Sally gets overloaded with other duties or takes some time off and pretty soon customer follow-up has fallen by the wayside.

Like state-of-the-art, customer-captivating SEO/SEM laden web sites, it CAN be done and it's not even rocket science but many (probably most) dealers lack the personnel with the passion and commitment to maintain consistency in the effort. And that's when the outside company becomes an alternative worth paying for, whether it's AT, Cars, AutoWhizBang or whatever.

Thank you Mr. Jeff larsen for the input! I was a bit confused, I was thinking that Jeff Kershner was trying to be an AKA..... Thanks to the both of you!

Thank you to Alex and all of the contributers of this article. I have learned and appreciated everyones input.

Admitting I am an Autotrader.com fan because of the success personally experienced with them regardless of how they market or how much they charge. I also believe Cars.com and other methods of online advertising are essential for online success. It’s all about what works in that market for that dealership.

Based on my experience, once an Internet Department has learned how to utilize and maximize the main online advertising resources: Dealer Websites, Manufacturer leads, Autotrader.com and Cars.com, only then is time to broaden the horizon into other areas.

For clarification purposes, I would like to mention that the online name I previously used ‘Internet Jeff’, should not be confused with Jeff Kershner, and was actually thought of to separate the two Jeff’s.

Feel free to contact me to share ideas about this article or any other automotive internet thoughts. Generally, it is the most misunderstood and underappreciated department in a dealership… We need to stick together on this!

Thank you

Jeff Larsen
815-994-0012

I personally agree Autotrader.com is a bit too expensive, however over the last year since their price increase, I have seen quite a bit more leads being generated from their site and our closing percentage has climbed to 11.5%. Now I'm not sure if it's my process or are these little extra things they offer now such as multimedia and dealer specials contribute to the increase in our closing percentage. I use every available tool available to me from autotrader and update my specials and spotlight cars as soon as there is a change. I personally don't mind paying on an average $350 per car in advertising. I think any dealer would agree on this as long as the numbers are consistant. I'm placing this comment here not to defend or bash Autotrader.com, I just like to give them a little credit where it's worth. I would be willing to bet if a dealership that uses Autotrader.com stopped they would see a decline in both their internet and floor traffic.

...a big wig sit in his chair and laugh at the dealers and think " wow you must be really stupid & you have no choice" This mindset is where they are at. IMHO they are going to undergo some fundamental changes as far as corporate structure in the next six months or so. Will this benefit dealers currently paying their rates? Time will tell, but I highly doubt it. I find it hard to believe they maintain this sentiment when they experience field staff turnover like they do, crazy if you ask me.

Yes apparently I was the 100th post. I was not aware of that. It is funny they don't give their information and they have such hasty stuff to say to defend Auto Trader!

The reason I have jumped aboard with TK Carsites is I know they can give so much to the dealer, yes they are not cheap by they deliver results big time. Why should we dish out so much money to have a big wig sit in his chair and laugh at the dealers and think " wow you must be really stupid & you have no choice" Think again BIG WIG aka AUTO TRADER! All the dealers have a choice to jump up and say "What a minute, why should we pay the Cow when we can get the Milk ourselves!"

For the price jackings and poor customer service from Auto Trader they are a waste of wind in my world!
Sorry to be so harsh on this post, but thinking again I am not!

Thank you again Alex and the rest of who supports the idea of the crazy price jacking!

It's just another way to get "newspaper" money trump the Partner package I'm sure.

So if there is something above spotlights or your Partner package why have a partner program?

DS- states, if we could have thought of their brilliant idea then we would have?

Interesting challenge to all of us who are in the internet/automotive field. Wonder who will come up with the next category Killer to autotrader - enjoy it while it lasts now DS.

That is what is so great about our country. There is always someone out there developing a new idea to make something that exists even better... or filling a need that another company is missing out on as it is clearly stated in this post.

Who knows could be one of us...

Cool new feature. Will it justify it's costs in generating more customer call activity to support the ROI? I doubt it.

"Let me try this again. I took a screen shot of it this time.


Maybe these will be part of the "ALPHA" packages. ??"

.............................

Interesting Ian. So that will be above the spotlights? I heard about it somewhere else, and asked my rep - he said it will be for strategic marketing campaigns that run on a 10-15 day period. Looks expensive to me. I wonder if it is really a way to give big-budget dealers an advantage on smaller dealers again.....since ATC sold so many partner packages making their original "partner dealers" upset?

I could be totally wrong, but that was my initial thought.

Congratulations Jennifer - you are the 100th poster in this thread!

Notice how many people have jumped in this thread to refute on behalf of AutoTrader, but will not leave their actual information? Wonder why? If these people feel as though they're adding something worthwhile to this thread, they should be open about who they are. Engage in the debate. Show us why we're wrong. Debate is a healthy thing, and we're missing it these days. Thank you "Internet Jeff" for being the exception - I may not agree with you on this one, but I respect you for working to make a debate.

When people hide behind the interwebz, and don't fight back when challenged, that person is a waste of time.

Dealer Refresh gives us all the opportunity to have a voice - vendors and dealers together. Let's debate - let's make ourselves better!

I agree with you Michael! I talk to so many dealers everyday and going in to the approach of the confidence of dealers trying to gather ideas to sell more cars. They are not stupid, along with the ISM's. I had been an ISM for 4 years before jumping aboard with TK Carsites and having that comment from DS aka AT insulting dealers and ISM's shows he/she never worked on the floor. They must hate their job at AutoTrader! Maybe DS needs to justify their job!!

I love the latest "DS" post must be someone that works at Autotrader. Sounds like he just got out of one of their training classes and all he/she compares Autotrader to is the traditional media vs. other internet resources dealers can use.. Cars.com,UsedCars.com, AutoUsa, Autobytel, Dealix, Google Base, SEM/SEO, tools to capture customer info on their website, hmmm? Apples to Oranges sounds like spin zone to me.

Love the arrogant attitude and devious laugh "ha ha ha" and then calling dealers, or ISMs stupid or justifying their jobs? That's a great approach - let's insult our customers.

I think you've missed a big point discussed here and that is many dealerships not seeing positive enough ROI for the investment in Autotrader's Premium Listings. Lets talk price & effectiveness. Toyota dealership w/50 used units with Autotrader Premium listings @ $5600 a month rate. Same dealership at the middle tiered level of ad product from Autotrader @ $1800 a month. Cost per used unit listed w/Premium Listings @ $112. Cost per used unit listed w/middle tiered ads with Autotrader @ $36. Selling 5 units per month on average from the Premium Listing product costs @ $1,120 a copy, selling 5 used units w/middle tiered ad product costs @ $360 per copy. Listening to the same spiel on and on from Autotrader about how valuable the Premium Listing products really are, priceless!

I laugh out loud at all the self righteous dealer personnel that cry about AT making money. Guess what, if you could do something better you would have. Try branding you dealership on your budget...

HA, HA, HA

Ain't going to happen. Hire an employee to do SEM and SEO? Now your budget is already blown through the roof, with no more traffic than you get now.

Know why AT works? Its called Top Of Mind Awareness. When a customer is constantly being drilled to search for cars and find a car on AT.com they use the service. Then when they go to look for a car, they don't have to use a search engine because they already know about AT. Can't say that about the dealership's sites, especially as the internet core audience matures.

Can anyone on these posts tell me why you would spend literally tens of thousands of dollars per month on mass marketing (i.e. newspapers, tv, radio) that reach only 3-4% of the public that s actively shopping for a vehicle at any one time?

You give $100000 a year to a newpaper showing 10% of your inventory, that reaches 400000 people a day. At a 4% shopping rate for cars we are talking about 16000 POTENTIAL viewers of your liner ad. For a quarter of that price you can list ALL your inventory on AT, show specs, research vehicles, get financing quotes and even fill out applications before they come in.

Now I see why you want to get rid of it. Because you can justify your jobs. Some times in going into a dealer I think "you are too stupid to work/own this dealership". More times than not that is proven out.

I like reading these posts to get the feed back from everyone that is having both good and bad opinions on auto trader. Like I said they work good only when you work them too. I hear from so many dealers spending thousands of dollars on ad's that don't work, 3rd party leads, just invest in a website that actually captures the customers then having to pay for them to come to your site! Getting a properly optimized site and getting to the top of the organic searches is the best way to go then to pay to be at the top. I am not trying to sell anything but from my past experience I would rather dump a buttload of cash on a site that actually pays you back in the ROI!

Working the comments really good for auto trader will give back what you put into it. Just an hour a day if not less making creative comments will capture your customers online.

Enjoy selling and good luck!