Paul,

Saw you mentioned you are doing some social marketing/bookmarking and also a blog network. That is great! Your GM won't appreciate it but if you are effective in it then he will appreciate the hightened exposure and increased business. We have a full-service blog/RSS marketing product that can drive significant traffic to your site if it is well optimized. Check us out and let me know if interested in exploring further.

-Ryan Gerardi

Thanks to all for the input.

I am playing out the end of the month and will look at stats from this month and previous months, before I arrived, and make a recommendation on that.

My work load seems overwhelming at this point, but my goal in 90 days is have everything more streamlined. The blog network I am working on is starting to produce some results, however most leads are way out of my market area.

It is well known by now I don't like the current automotive classified platforms the 800lb gorillas have in that niche and will keep researching viable alternatives.

The most important goal is to sell cars and keep the pipeline full no matter from what source.

Paul-

Congratulations on your new position. The question of keeping AT & Cars.com alive is up to you. The biggest variable I have with AT is how well we own the pre-owned vehicles. If they are owned right, your prices will be accordingly lower than the competition. You can also approach your New Car Director and see if he would support you by adding his new inventory to AT.

Since GM guy is old school, draw up a diagram, or better yet, a spreadsheet with Cost/lead, cost/sold, find out how far away Internet customers have bought from your store (especially if you don't advertise in the local media!) and support yourself with some info from the industry as to what closing/appt setting ratios they can expect with some time. (I have a spreadsheet available if you need)

Next, develop a 30-60-90 day action plan to lay out the short term course. Third, project your advertising budget along with expected leads, appointments and sales, approximate gross/unit and SHOW him how this will make more money, get his store in front of more customers. They have to understand this will get them at least regional exposure, possibly national if you have the right inventory. Fourth, expand everyones' thinking about Internet! Put up cards/tents/banners/decals in the customer lounges to tell them they can schedule their appointments online to save time. Ensure every bit of literature from the company has the website. Loaner cars, business cards, license plate holders, etc., etc. Anywhere you can put the website, put it there! Commit to a process to handle the leads and ensure the money is spent wisely. Last, but not least, ensure you pay attention to your website. Even a Reynolds site can be made to sing with proper attention and marketing efforts.

Don't let them tell you Cars and AT customers are the same- they are not. They buy essentially the same, but it is the information gathering that is different. Much the same argument for 3rd party leads. If everyone searched Google/Yahoo for a type of car in the key words you are using, there would not be a need for 3rd party leads.

There are also some tricks you can use to change your positioning on AT without spending the extra $$$$!

You might also convince him you might be able to MAKE money by selling some of the leads you generate.

Good luck!

If you are reallocating budget rather then enhance and existing 3rd party source it maybe be prudent to look at experimenting with new opportunities.

"Ebay local", not the auction side, has a nice program they have just introduced that has some very nice features that are offered free within the program, videos, multi image, audio presentations, email campaigns etc. The program itself runs about a $1000.00 a month however they offer specials and the free options add value. They have a respected brand and a number of dealers I mystery shopped to review are using the tool effectively and they are happy with the solution.

Another indication of the success of this solution is the number of dealers buying into the solution over the last 4 months. Ebay is not spending heavy to market and promote this because they do not have to. While you look at who is spending major advertising dollars (actually it's our money as we are paying the fees) to promote their product/service. How much does Craig's List spend???? How successful are they?

They are month to month and I have found the providers that are not asking you to tie yourself up in a1- 2-3 year contract are more confident their solution will satisfy the client. They are usually more cutting edge on the technology curve and intend on staying there.

Craig's List is a great option and you cannot beat the price. Your ISM will have to work a little and be creative however this is what we live for ….right?

Google Base is another option that should be looked into as this and Yahoo offers dealers a great option, priced right that will require the ISM's to be a little creative.

Overstock.com is another option. There are a number of these options, many free that are emerging and many more in the pipeline that will emerge in the next 6-12 months.

It's like a great time to be flexible and to experiment.

Commenting in reverse order to each response for this exceptional thread:

Rex - My customers generally love your products! I'd love a post about them on my site if you get time.

Paul - Sounds like you do what I do, but I'm just further west and do it for multiple dealers.

Joe - You're 150% correct. I still try to encourage dealers to try to be the gorilla with the sniper rifle whenever possible, but 95 out of 100 are too big on bulk sales to snipe their cars off the lot.

David - My previous job was ISM in OKC. If service were everything, we would have dropped AT and went Cars.com all the way. Jojo is actually on my recruiting list (sorry if we steal him) because he blew the AT reps out of the water (except one occasion during the holidays when he brought a tin of cookies the same day that the AT rep catered lunch). Sadly, at least in OKC, AT and Cars.com are both a necessity.

Randy - Your point about specials and your well written post make me wish you'd post your web address. Great stuff, and SO true regarding an empty specials page.

Brandon - While your post was well intentioned, I hate to recommend bailing out so early. It is impossible to believe, but I worked for a dealership whose owner (in his 70s) had heard of Google but knew nothing about it. 22% unit increase YOY and 29% increase over previous month after they let me rebuild and optimize the website yield possibly the funniest comment I've ever heard: "I don't know how you Google, but whatever it is, keep Googling us."

Kevin - Absolutely! Track, track, adjust, track, adjust, track, track... That's the key. Oh, and making sure your specials pages are updated.

Jeff - I disagree about Reynolds, agree about PPC and dumping newspaper, and had a bad AT rep, but I also have dealers who swear by their AT reps, so it depends on the area. Atlanta, I would assume, is strong for AT for the reasons you and others mentioned.
***************************
Response to Paul's other post, detailed:

- PPC Campaigns to specific vehicle listings on our website - (I am very knowledgeable in PPC Traffic Arbitrage)
- working on a custom template script to create landing pages for individual cars in inventory to test with PPC. Template vs Company Website to see which converts better.
((Sounds like a good plan. I'd love to know how it works out))

- Working on a blog network - For Link Love to Main Sites and SERP domination for specific keywords. (Very Knowledgeable)
((We should talk. I have a very large automotive network currently))

- Hired a company to take pictures and provide data feeds for inventory.
- Craigslist ads - Targeting Low cost specialties like BMW, Mercedes etc.
((Great ideas. Make sure you keep on top of the picture quality. Craigslist is my personal favorite because of the "cost". I bought my last car through Craigslist))

- Using Web 2.0 sites like digg.com and Reddit.com to drive traffic to blogs and increase their link love.
((Again, we need to talk. My social plugs are strong. My Diggs get 20-40 if they don't go popular, which is great for getting my blogs indexed quickly and ranked well, plus Newsvine, Shadows... large list))
-------------------------------------------------------------

----------------Considering --------------------------------
- Going to pull the plug on cars.com. Leads generated via cars.com are way out of my market area, probably for reasons given by Alex
May pull the plug on Autotrader.com and use the money spent on these services for PPC advertising. PPC campaigns and natural traffic provide higher quality leads bar none.
((That scares me a bit, but if you can't get the money without pulling the plug, you can always rejoin if (a) your plans don't work, or (b) your plans work so well that you can get a bigger budget))

***************************************

Jake, Greg, and Alex: Your points are all good. After reading Paul's post, I think he has a plan that may trump the merits offered by AT and Cars.com. Perhaps not forever, but like I said, I think he may have some ideas that only someone in his unique position can pull off. Normally, I would say to stick with both. If Paul can put his plan into place, he might be able to "take a break" from the classifieds and get his site pumping out enough is sales to win a budget large enough for everything.

Daily I speak with dealers around our country on the pros and cons of each lead provider. The only thing that is ever for certain is that different lead providers are the best in the biz for different regions. My experience is that it isn't as simple as "the Mason-Dixon line". Rather, it depends on the exact location of your dealership. Therefore, the true answer is to have a tool that measures the ROI for each lead provider. This same tool should also let you know if the people in your area shop XYZ Lead Provider first and then ABC Lead Provider Second. In other words, if ABC leads are always coming in second, why subscribe?

Without outing our customers, I can share that two dealerships mentioned here for their successes use our lead management tools. iMagicLab recently launched iLeadTools.com for as little as $56 per month. Paul, if you decide to hang in there and show the dealership the value of Internet Leads, a tool like iLeadTools is so cheap that it would be silly to not incorporate it.

Idea:
If you're going to stay with this store, why not build everything to point to you? SuperSalesGuyPaul.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The blog networks and custom work is owned by me. I am branding myself first and the dealership second in my efforts other than the company sites. I own the domains and hosting.

Link Love can be changed at the drop of a hat or be offered as an inclusion for $$. With no one but me to dictate how it is shared or taken away.

Building link love with white hat content to push to the dealer site or personal site will pay off in spades, but as someone with almost 20 years in high ticket retail I know better than to allow that work to escape me if I leave my current situation.

Very valid point though that most would not see.

Thanks,
Paul

Paul,
1st things 1st... Lets talk about YOU.

From one Experienced Internet Marketer to another, Here's my $0.02.
Remember that 'ol Billy Joel Song, The Piano Man? The customer says "...man what are you doing here?". Take a step back and look at your game plan. It's brilliant! I know it's brilliant because it's what I do for a living! hahahaha!

Really... You're bringing dom perion Champagne to a trailer park and hoping they'll all apreciate what you've brought. IMO, either you find a Dealer Group (repeat: Dealer Group) that "gets it", or, you make a go of it on your own! Case in point. I have a huge amount of respect for the fine mind of Alex Snyder. He's got his A game goin' on. BUT... the last thing Alex would want is a "player" like you in his territory. This is a compliment to you and to Alex.

Oh, and there's more!

Paul,
Allow me to take you 2-3-4 years down the road. I've just spent 3.5years building the finest most SEO friendly Chevrolet dealer site anywhere (my back hurts from me patting it so much . I dominated Natural SERPs for every city for chevrolet,model,city within a 200 mile radius. A summary of the sites accomplishments is here: http://www.dealerclearanceservices.com/breseechevrolet_com_3_0.htm .

Any how... sales got tight and the principal switched to cobalt 15 days ago and released me from my post. He didn't fully understand how deeply rooted our site was. Inside sourses tell me that call counts are down over 50% in the last 2weeks. All I am trying to say is that you're bringing an Internet Game Plan to a Dealer Principal that lives in a spreadsheet, tied to a 30 day window.

You need to think about this.
There is a lot of effort to build all this link love. Should you find a better opportunity, or, should the Dealer Principal want to have his nephew take over your position, your efforts will be passed on and your back on the street. We both know it'll take 6-12 months of heavy lifting to get momemtum going.

Idea:
If you're going to stay with this store, why not build everything to point to you? SuperSalesGuyPaul.com

Summary:
PROTECT YOURSELF.

Joe

re: AT vs. Cars.com

WHERE ARE YOUR COMPETITORS?
#1). Look at your Inventory, get a profile.
......Does Mngt. have "favorite" used units?
............(i.e. 30% of units in 3 models)
......Who are your major Competitors? (list top 5)
......Are they on AT?
......Are they on Cars.com?
............(can you spot any leverage by being on one or the other?)

HOW WILL YOU GET YOUR UNITS SEEN?
#2). Are you the 800lb. gorilla, or the sniper?
......Gorilla = >500 used units
......Snipers have small #units and gain leverage by under cutting the Gorilla's by a few $hundred to "pop out" of classified searchs. If you're a Sniper, will mngt allow you to "snipe" as needed?

G'Luck,
Joe
p.s. Jeff, is there a way to turn on HTML for our replies?

Simply an awesome post. While much of the information is something I do not agree with (north vs. south, cutting our service, cross-pollination of shoppers), I am excited to see all the comments and dialogue involving Cars.com.

In speaking with Paul, we are looking forward to taking the "Pepsi challenge" over the next few weeks. Paul will be monitoring his leads carefully and using his extensive knowledge of internet marketing to see who delivers better value, service and most importantly results!

Thanks to everyone for contributing to this. And thanks to all of our current customers for using our product.

Dave Rudey
p. 312-601-5614

Great postings! I come from managing the web sites of a billion dollar competitor of Nike for 9 years and am 9 months new to the auto industry. So I have been here long enough to understand a lot of the frustrations and questions listed here. What I am missing, however, although one of the postings mentioned it, is giving your web site a LOT of attention. Leads are good and will remain our bread and butter, but a dealership web site that has specials listed (costs little to do and is the number one visited page on any dealership site), has a warm human touch to it, and good lead-handling processes in place will win out every time.

If you spend days trying to invite someone to your home, and then they finally come, but you ignore them once they are there, they will leave never to come back again. So looking outward to gain leads is very important, but today the web community is looking for relationship and help. Be that to them.

If I am looking for a computer online today, the first in line are usually those portals which offer up pricing from many different sources (think AT and cars.com). But once their work is done, and I jet off to the next site to see if the price is really that low, the first thing I see is that dealer's site. Immediately my mind assesses how much time they took, or did no take, to make it easy for me to navigate, to communicate with them, to feel comfortable with them in giving them my business.

Most of the people who use the web nowdays have been to "internet" school. They have learned that "cheap" is not always the same as "good". But professional is almost always good. Go to any one of the highest converting sites on the web today (a flower store, and it's NOT 1-800-Flowers!), and you will find very clear, easy navigation, pictures of people (yes it's true, people like seeing people and the stats prove it) and most of all clear pricing and directions that walk people down the purchase path.

So my advice is to live a well balanced life in the Internet Manager position you find yourself in. Don't just spend all your time going after leads, but make sure your house is inviting and gives visitors the respect and attention they deserve once they are there.

That is also an area where a good hosting and design firm can help those one-man operations. They can check your site for you on a weekly basis making sure there are no empty pages (a specials page with no specials tells a visitor you don't care and, worse, you are mocking them - you invite them into an empty room). They can help with updating those specials and other issues that are real time eaters, again, for those one-man/woman internet depts.

Where I work, we are moving hopefully soon away from one of the big two providers (and it's not Cobalt), and will be working with a smaller, more responsive web hosting/design house, motorwebs.com on the west coast. There are others as well, we just like their track record.

Take your time to find a GOOD partner in this respect, as it really pays off and expands and leverages your capabilities as an internet manager. They can also help you to read and use your metrics and stats to prove a point to those who write the checks.

Honestly, I would quit the dealership right now! The chances of you convincing an old school dealer who doesn't see the value in the internet is very unlikely. Dealerships NEED ISMs and Internet Managers now more then ever. You would be better off finding a dealership that is receptive to internet marketing/new ideas and willing to spend money in order to make money.

Thats just my 2 cents knowing this industry as well as i do.

xBMANx

I measure our ROI with AutoTrader and Cars.com each month. Each vendor brings us almost identical results in terms of phone calls, internet leads, page views, etc, however we get a much better return with Cars.com as they are about a third of the cost of AutoTrader. Kevin Frye/eCommerce Director/Jeff Wyler Automotive Family (Cincinnati region - maybe since we straddle the Mason Dixon line the results are about dead even, lol)

Hi Paul, I've experienced and heard this debate many times in many different areas of the country.

Your foundation should be to maximize the dealership website first, and Reynolds will work with you to do that. I found their website support in the past to be easy to contact and knowledgeable. Aside from your PPC campaigns, these should be your leads with best ROI. And if you admin the site, lets just say you have the power of directing many to you first.

Autotrader or Cars.com? Two different shoppers: AT shoppers seem to be a little more tech savvy, Cars.com is more newspaper oriented connected with the newspaper converted shopper.

Dealerships drop $500 to $1000 for a ONE DAY ad in the paper. What is the return on that? Most do not know. Autotrader and Cars.com together per month are usually a fraction of traditonal advertising costs and with quality ILM/CRM tools the ROI can be tracked almost to the dollar, excluding the non-direct ROI that showroom reps dont report.

Consider this also; Cox Enterprises, a large 'old school' newspaper conglomerate owns Autotrader, and it's home office is in GA. AT also seems to advertise at a much larger scale in professional sport venues and produce more commercial advertising overall.

Autotrader.com reps are very pro-active before and after signing the contract. Monthly visits with reports, educating and coaching internet personel, and always demonstrating the latest cutting edge technology to capture the internet car shopper.

Did I mention... Autotrader.com is the 7th largest internet marketing company that is also industry specific? So there's Google, Yahoo, MSN... and AT at number 7?!

Here are some things I am working on or considering now.

-------Doing Now----------------
- PPC Campaigns to specific vehicle listings on our website - (I am very knowledgeable in PPC Traffic Arbitrage)
- working on a custom template script to create landing pages for individual cars in inventory to test with PPC. Template vs Company Website to see which converts better.
- Working on a blog network - For Link Love to Main Sites and SERP domination for specific keywords. (Very Knowledgeable)
- Hired a company to take pictures and provide data feeds for inventory.
- Craigslist ads - Targeting Low cost specialties like BMW, Mercedes etc.
- Using Web 2.0 sites like digg.com and Reddit.com to drive traffic to blogs and increase their link love.
-------------------------------------------------------------

----------------Considering --------------------------------
- Going to pull the plug on cars.com. Leads generated via cars.com are way out of my market area, probably for reasons given by Alex
May pull the plug on Autotrader.com and use the money spent on these services for PPC advertising. PPC campaigns and natural traffic provide higher quality leads bar none.

I don't like the leaks on either site. The affiliate offers displayed on inventory listings distract the surfer. They provide benefit to AT and Cars.com and provide no benefit to me the advertiser. In affiliate marketing I would never promote an affiliate offer with a single leak much less the tons of leaks in these sites, does not make sense to advertise somewhere where I pay to promote my inventory and there are many options for the surfer other than to call me or fill in a LCP, when the ROI is higher on PPC and SEO.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Granted I do not have a lot of stats to work from, but my cost per lead is lower from PPC and Natural Traffic with a MUCH HIGHER closing ratio. Thoughts and opinions please?

Alex hit the nail on the head. Each site has different levels of effectiveness in different regions. I get asked all the time by clients "which site is better", and the answer really depends on where the client is. The Philly market for example, is a big Cars.com area, probably due in large part to the Philadelphia Inquirer. Sure customers use both sites, but as a former sales rep selling Autotrader.com into the Philly area, I would have to say Cars.com has a stronger presence, and I'd bet their site traffic specific to that region reflects that as well.

You're in GA Paul, so I would have to assume Autotrader.com is the local market leader in your area. I don't know this for sure, but you're saying most of your leads come from them, plus they're based out of ATL and I know they do heavy marketing in the area (e.g. Atlanta Braves). If you're deciding strictly on allocating the Cars.com money into Autotrader.com, I would think it's worth it for your area. I'm not sure which packages you're on and price you're paying, but another option might be to spread the money around a little more instead of sinking everything into Autotrader.com.

Another interesting tidbit they used to teach us at Autotrader.com: According to JD Power, something like 20% of Autotrader.com shoppers also use Cars.com while 80% of Cars.com shoppers also use Autotrader.com. My numbers may be off, plus that's on a national level, but you get the point. Basically a lot of the Cars.com shoppers are going to Autotrader.com anyway, but not as many are going the other way. Take that for what it's worth.

Also look to see if there is any local offerings. I hate to say it, but some areas the local newspaper has a solid online offering or if you are in a high cable penetrated market - check Vehix.com.

It stinks to work for an owner, manager, or GM that is unwilling to give the internet department their own budget and or does not embrace online vehicle marketing. If you show ROI your arguments might be validated. Whatever you do, track your results!

I'm not sure it really depends on North and South but market by market to see what online listing providers work for your area. There is always Craig list if they are in your market.

I wish you the best.

Welcome back Paul - it is a much different business than when you left. I think it has become more respectable and honest, but I'll leave you to your own observations/conclusions there.

I have a crazy theory when it comes to what motivates buyers on the East Coast. I believe the Mason-Dixon line still exists when it comes to product popularity. Things change when you travel either North or South of the DC area. Northerners seem to appreciate Saab's, Saturns, and Subaru's more than the people on the Southern East Coast. This isn't limited solely to those three brands - they're just examples.

I think the Mason-Dixon line exists for online ventures as well. A few months ago, I was in the market for a 95-97 Landcruiser, and was searching from Alabama to New York. The places private sellers listed their cars changed depending on whether they were in the South or the North (sorry to use the Civil War terminology). Southerners used Autotrader.com while Northerners used Cars.com. Of course, both sites were used in both regions; however, many of the Northerners I called (from Autotrader.com listings) told me to check out their Cars.com listings as it was a better listing. In searching through Cars.com, for Northern states, I did find quite a few more cars that I never would have seen on Autotrader.com. In my area (Virginia Beach) and further South everything was on Autotrader.com with the occasional Cars.com listing...the complete opposite.

Typically, product trends start in California and take 2 to 4 years to be fully embraced on the East Coast, starting in the Northern states. If this holds true, I think Cars.com will be a bigger player down the road for you Paul.

Good Service is GoodSEO

A Contrarian’s Perspective on SEO for Car Dealers.
Most blogs about the auto industry fall into one of two categories: those about cars and those about SEO. Search Engine Optimization is one of the fastest growing areas of marketing, and with good re...

All good info.
All I can say at this point is that, as a newcomer to the Auto Industry, I am not overly impressed with the efforts I have seen (or not seen) made by dealership staff to really reach out to the customer with absolute top-notch customer care. But remember, now I am one of you and know I must take these things to heart as well as speak them.

In my almost 12 years now of managing web sites and internet marketing, I have yet to see any tool, method, philosophy, tricks, camoflauge, or anything else come even close to the power and clarity of good customer service - this includes honesty, respect, being forthright (that means aggressively transparent), caring and interested.

It does not matter what you sell, but to sell well and sell consistantly (which translates into longevity, or business "Building"), you must at all costs build a relationship with that other human being who is looking into trusting you with their time, their money and maybe even their future (will they be able to make the payments, will they turn into long time customers, etc.).

So many things are at stake above and beyond what someone says about us on a blog. When you reduce the effect that a blog statement made by one person, who probably is not going to become a customer anyway, has on our business, as compared with giving your full attention to those who are already customers, or who just walked in the door, then you'll start seeing things in perspective. And I know for a fact that your sales will go up.

Crap happens and there is nothing you can do about it! Oh wait, maybe there is... maybe going the extra mile, sending that extra email, making that extra call, showing real concern and warmth and putting the customer's concern above my sales numbers might even prevent that "flog" from happening in the first place!

I don't want to appear cynical here, so forgive me if I do. I simply want to make the point that if we give too much attention to the negative, it WILL hinder the positive.

Most of the online businesses who started posting customers comments, both good and bad, have seen sales INCREASE. Honesty is ALWAYS rewarded on the internet, because it's the one place people expect you to be real. If you are not, you are misusing their trust and they will have nothing to do with you, or any fake.

Another Great FYI: RSS in Plain English

Login to view embedded media View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0klgLsSxGsU&mode=related&search=


While I was working with the http://www.homenetinc.com/ Inventory system, I tried to get them to see the value in making their platform RSS ready.

See the video and see how nice it would be to establish a RSS channel to a shopper.

Nice!
Joe

Joe, you're right, but sometimes dealers need a shield of controlled blogs, reviews, websites, etc. Even outranked results can get noticed if they are somewhere on the front page. Unless you have a nice, inexpensive fleet of sites pushing it down (and sending you leads and traffic, of course) then it's still possible to lose customers through flogging.

Nice video. Love the way it was formatted.

Social bookmarking is one of the services that we offer as part of our different packages. It can really work if done properly to help get websites ranked well.

Angry Buyer floggs retailer... and gets no where.
-or-
The best defense maybe a strong(er) offense.

An angry consumer Flogging you is not a problem until a NEW shopper looks for your name in a Search Engine and sees the moaning and groaning. But! Not all Flogging will make it to the front page.

You can battle flogging BEFORE it becomes a problem with SMART SEO. If you have a great Search Engine Guru in your camp, you're site is raked very well with search engines AND if your site is filled with lots of good information, you can defend yourself by "out ranking" the irate flogger... there by burying them into the lost (rarely viewed) pages of google.

G'Luck,
Joe

Great FYI:
A must see Social Bookmarking Video:

Login to view embedded media View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x66lV7GOcNU&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmakemoneywithkassper%2Eblogspot%2Ecom%2F2007%2F08%2Fsocial%2Dbookmarking%2Din%2Dplain%2Denglish%5F13%2Ehtml


Joe