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joe.pistell · Apr 11, 2025

Bill_Playford said:
I also know that when @joe.pistell says that LLMs are bad at math.... ...that's not the objective truth,

Bill, I appreciate your breakdown of AI's facets. My skepticism about LLMs and math stems from testing their boundaries.

The more challenging the task, the more frequently they hallucinate. I witnessed this while developing an image lighting scoring system - despite implementing explicit anti-hallucination instructions ("No fabricated information," etc.), the system still produced fictional results with absolute confidence.

(yup, I used AI to write a prompt to keep it from inventing answers when it had no answers to give)

Bill_Playford · Apr 11, 2025

@Alex Snyder, you’re right on with the letters A and I being tainted. But, I also think we're all to blame.

Given the size and scope of AI, it's more akin to a utility than a technology. It's everywhere we look, while also having many shapes, forms, and functions, while still also being comprised of countless smaller components. We don't think "nuclear power plant" or "plug" when someone says electricity. We shouldn't automatically think J.A.R.V.I.S., HAL 9000, or the Terminator when someone says AI, either. If someone is considering an AI-enhanced technology, they should first do a little bit of research into the different subcomponents that make up today's umbrella version of AI (e.g., Machine Learning, Deep Learning, Natural Language Processing, Computer Vision, etc.).

To de-nerd things a bit, let's look at ways we categorize things every day. Think of the abbreviation AI as you would when someone says they're an athlete. Most people would automatically respond back asking what sport that person played. When the person responds back with football, then the question is what position. When another person responds back they run track, the next question is what events do you participate in (or are you a runner or a sprinter, etc.). As humans, we love taxonomies (even if we don't know what they are!), and we should be applying that same conversational scrutiny to AI all the time because AI has many forms, functions, and all kinds of weirdness in between.

Just because the AI you know doesn't function in a certain way doesn't mean that there isn't a version that does. I know the legacy retail tech companies "me too" everything and then want to charge a fortune for it. There’s also a good chunk of the upstarts that have an MVP, at best, then blow all of their private equity money on booths, sponsorships, salespeople, and vaporware. I also know that when @joe.pistell says that LLMs are bad at math and when @imacsweb says that automation can't handle the complexities of tariffs, that's not the objective truth, but it's based on their experiences with a version of AI. There are AI applications that are devastatingly awesome at math and can easily handle tariff conversations, GLB frameworks, and all manners of legal complexities. It's up to us to learn about them.

I hope this thread keeps rolling because now the AI genie is out of the bottle, just like the Internet, it's not going to go back in. The more we talk about it on places like DealerRefresh, the better understanding we'll have about AI (as well as everything else dealership related), how to get the most out of it, and how not fall victim to some of those schilling it.

Tallcool1 · Apr 11, 2025

BillVaughnAlWestNissan said:
Good lord running a small dealership is WAY harder than running a larger one.

Most people do not understand this fact.

In a large dealership, we can throw people/money at problems. In a small dealership we don't have people or problems that are big enough to throw a new employee at it.

Alex Snyder · Apr 11, 2025

BillVaughnAlWestNissan said:
Good lord running a small dealership is WAY harder than running a larger one.

Resources are a MFer.

joe.pistell · Apr 11, 2025

"A good surgeon never lets his patient see the knife"

IMO, AI is a machine that makes things. AutoMagic Labs uses AI in many places in our work. The example below is part of our merchandising process, made using AI.

From my POV, I don't talk about the machine that made it, it's all about the output of the machine.

Alex Snyder · Apr 11, 2025

Bill_Playford said:
Given some of the easy value that many have been able to demonstrate here, why do you think the adoption rate inside of dealerships is so low?

In regards to AI solutions marketed directly to car dealers:

The letters "AI" have been abused. They are sold as a magic bullet, but only a few solutions actually move the needle with true AI. And there is too much junk being called AI that isn't. After trying some of these solutions, I can see why dealers are now skeptical about further adoption.

As for the solutions we're talking about in this thread:

Until recently, many of these things were super complex. You needed to be a prompt jockey to gain real insight. Some of the imaging tools were very difficult to figure out. I think a number of people tried some of this out or watched a YouTube video and said, "Nope - this is too hard," and moved on. Give it a little time; people will begin to realize how much easier it has become to use the good AI tools.

The answer probably lies between these two experiences.

jscole86 · Apr 10, 2025

bringles said:
I spoke with stockwave and they said there is an option to require a 2nd step to run a carax report. As it sits now a report is being run every time I load a car in stockwave. Thats why thousands are being run every month.

That's part of the beauty of stockwave, having it show up ASAP and be included with your filters.

bringles · Apr 10, 2025

Tony0266 said:
issue with shockwave

I spoke with stockwave and they said there is an option to require a 2nd step to run a carax report. As it sits now a report is being run every time I load a car in stockwave. Thats why thousands are being run every month.

joe.pistell · Apr 10, 2025

Bill_Playford said:
Given some of the easy value that many have been able to demonstrate here, why do you think the adoption rate inside of dealerships is so low?

My $0.02

The concept of AI is alien to most ppl. Many see it as 'just like google'. I put info in and I get back stuff. They'll say "IDK where or when I'd use it"
By definition, a franchise is copy of successful system. Franchise life is all about repetition... execution. Lather, rinse, repeat. AI needs to be plugged into daily dealer life for adoption to rise.

Bill_Playford · Apr 10, 2025

@jscole86, I would tend to agree, as managing at a dealership is like constantly putting out one fire after another. But, I also find it super ironic that people aren't willing to put in the time to save time

. Objectively speaking, if a salesperson has a 25% closing ratio, that means they are only productive for 2.5 hours of a 10 hour day.

jscole86 · Apr 10, 2025

Bill_Playford said:
Given some of the easy value that many have been able to demonstrate here, why do you think the adoption rate inside of dealerships is so low?

I would say mostly, time.

*Edit: and most not realizing that, depending on the use case, using it could save them save.

Bill_Playford · Apr 10, 2025

Given some of the easy value that many have been able to demonstrate here, why do you think the adoption rate inside of dealerships is so low?

imacsweb · Apr 9, 2025

The industry is in flux. It's always in flux. We, the automotive sector—at least the retail part—have become more adept at pushing for 'things.' Sometimes, these 'things' assist us. Sometimes, they hurt us. Overall, they become part of the sea of confusion aimed at making selling cars easier (place a big opinion asterisk at the end of easier).

What we are staring at right now, related to new car sales (in the near term based on tariffs), is a massive challenge on several fronts for both the industry and consumers. While many aspects of digital marketing and, specifically, inventory software (acquisition, marketing, pricing, etc.) have proven to remove the bullshit excuses for not acquiring vehicles properly (yes, it's only a large part of the total solution), the opposite can be said about automated solutions for lead responses (and oh yes, this is going to piss lots of people off because of how they feel).

While these solutions have been available for over 10 years (yes, they've been around for over a decade), and many scream that there results are better with these 'plug-and-play' tech solutions, the industry hasn't sold MORE vehicles with them. Before you conjugate a vile response, pump the brakes and read: now with 'price increases' (although some OEMs have committed to short- to long-term price locks, which is incredible - as they should take some of the massive profits and share with the dealer pain, especially when you look at a profit-per-unit perspective), these solutions ('AI' - whether AI or not, 'chatbots,' 'automated attendants' and other tech stack solutions removing otherwise-capable humans at scale (had they been coached/trained properly - something 'training' companies have proven inept at for more than the last 20 years) are not and will not be prepared for the onslaught of questions related to hand-raisers need for answers related to tariff 'things' (like pricing, payment, how each model might be affected, etc.), especially in the coming months before things really vet out.

In the desire to get an IV bag of 'better than people' solutions—and this is speaking to sales only and not the service benefit of automated responses to 'What's the status of my vehicle being fixed?' or phone agents that can schedule an oil change better than a human—we've created a monster of a trainwreck that's about to unfold in front of our eyes.

Well, at least those who are educated enough to go beyond the vanity metrics that reporting dashboards will show dealers, GMs, and Internet/BDC/sales departments will see the drop in cognizant responses that lead to appointments and shows (contact rates alone don't matter!! Just like appointments that don't show at Increasing rates!! Most AI responders raise one metric, not all!!!!!). We will see otherwise 'capable' systems that attempt to show meaningful results that are struggling badly. Yes, many will attempt to actually build learning into their systems (or be acquired by larger companies who've scaled somewhat better) that can possibly handle the significant increase in need-a-knowledgeable-human-to-respond-to-a-lead scenarios.

This is not a simple one-point statement that all is going to fail around non-human systems starting tomorrow; however, if you believe that these $599-$4,999/month 'solutions' are about to tackle one of the largest challenges (and opportunities) for the industry in recent times (and we've had quite a few since 2000) then you're about to be beat by the dealer down the street that has properly-coached people with a great management team that focuses on human capital.

Yes you are.

joe.pistell · Apr 9, 2025

---Prompt: "OCR this"---

1. A.P.E (Action, Purpose, Expectation)

Example:

Action: Write a blog post about the impact of AI in marketing.
Purpose: To educate readers on how AI is transforming marketing strategies.
Expectation: The blog should be informative, include recent trends, and highlight the potential benefits.

2. T.A.G (Task, Action, Goal)

Example:

Task: Develop a content marketing plan.
Action: Create a 3-month content calendar.
Goal: Increase brand visibility and customer engagement through consistent content posting.

3. E.R.A (Expectation, Role, Action)

Example:

Expectation: Provide a market analysis report.
Role: You are a market research analyst.
Action: Conduct research on competitors in the tech industry and summarize key findings.

4. R.A.C.E (Role, Action, Context, Expectation)

Example:

Role: You are an expert in digital marketing.
Action: Recommend tools for social media marketing.
Context: The user is a beginner in digital marketing looking for tools that can automate tasks.
Expectation: Provide a list of tools along with a brief explanation of how each can help.

5. R.I.S.E (Request, Input, Scenario, Expectation)

Example:

Request: Recommend content ideas for a marketing campaign.
Input: The business sells eco-friendly products.
Scenario: They are launching a new biodegradable product line.
Expectation: Provide 5 content ideas that align with sustainability and eco-conscious branding.

6. C.A.R.E (Context, Action, Result, Example)

Example:

Context: A company wants to improve employee engagement using internal communication.
Action: Design an internal newsletter for employees.
Result: Increased engagement, feedback, and interaction among employees.
Example: Provide a sample newsletter layout and content suggestions.

7. C.O.A.S.T (Context, Objective, Actions, Steps, Task)

Example:

Context: A small business wants to expand its online presence.
Objective: Increase website traffic by 50% over the next 6 months.
Action: Create a digital marketing strategy.
Steps: Outline a detailed SEO plan, paid ads, and social media content creation.
Task: Generate a roadmap that includes timelines and measurable milestones.

8. T.R.A.C.E (Task, Role, Action, Context, Expectation)

Example:

Task: Write a persuasive email for a fundraising campaign.
Role: You are an experienced marketer.
Action: Create a message that engages potential donors and emphasizes the urgency of their contribution.
Context: The organization is raising funds for an upcoming environmental project.
Expectation: The email should be compelling and result in increased donations.

9. R.O.S.E.S (Role, Objective, Steps, Expected Solution, Scenario)

Example:

Role: Act as a customer service manager.
Objective: Improve customer satisfaction.
Steps: Implement a feedback system and create personalized responses to customer reviews.
Expected Solution: Higher ratings and increased positive feedback on review platforms.
Scenario: The company recently received lower-than-average customer ratings and needs to address the issue.

joe.pistell · Apr 9, 2025

@BillVaughnAlWestNissan share on LI

joe.pistell · Apr 9, 2025

Bill_Playford said:
Thanks for the inspiration, @joe.pistell. I use AI for a variety of tasks,

Bill, ck this out.
I'm on vacation, at a local café and I see this mural on the wall,

I LOVE THE "BUY LOCAL" THEME...

My pilot store is Reymore Chevy, a semi-rural store in upstate ny.
I took a pic, uploaded it to GPT 4o, gave it a few inputs and viola'!

Backdrop:
Buy local is all the rage. Bistros, craft brew, craft cocktails, raw bricks, chalk boards and black steel. It's a great local vibe that we need in auto.

As auto retail makes the big shift to one price, transparency, near zero friction, and competes with Carvana's USP (delivered to 19 million monthly visitors), dealers would do well to embrace their local-ness... in a hip kinda way

#rawbricks #chalkboards #blacksteel #bringyourdog

Alex Snyder · Apr 8, 2025

You know someone here is now going to explore number 2 with AI. The poo two.

Thanks Bill!

Bill_Playford · Apr 8, 2025

It's natural to be interested in poop, @Alex Snyder. Unfortunately, I'm not a gastroenterologist (yet).

Seriously, though, there are several ways people can go about creating email campaigns. I'll try to keep this concise. A user may have a certain goal in mind for the campaign (e.g., lease pull ahead) or the user may ask the LLM what are the three (or six, or ten) major concerns auto shoppers have. The user may also have a time period in mind (e.g., 90 days), or, again, the user may ask the LLM what the optimum length is for that type of email campaign. The same steps can be followed for optimum days. Once the user is settled on a list, they can then ask the LLM to compose each one of the emails. I always read through what's written to make sure there's nothing made up or example content that needs to be altered. After the read-through, the user can then add them to the CRM or blast emailer of choice, and "Bob's your uncle."

Depending on the LLM or service, the user may have to do the whole "I'm a Chevy dealer in a rural market, etc.," but I'm finding with the newer versions of Chat or Claude, this doesn't have to be overly detailed. I'd probably check Perplexity against the LLMs (unless a source is included) if I were going to have the tools give me the topics just to prevent the chance of hallucinations. Even if it's not perfect, people need to consider just how much time they've saved by creating the lines that just need to be colored-in.

Alex Snyder · Apr 8, 2025

@Bill_Playford thanks for sharing! I’m curious about number 2. Not

Bill_Playford · Apr 8, 2025

Thanks for the inspiration, @joe.pistell. I use AI for a variety of tasks, so these are just a few:

1. Generating detailed summaries, assignments, and to-do lists from meeting transcripts.
2. Creating email campaigns, including targeting, content, and timing intervals.
3. Strategic outlines, including priorities and project management milestones.
4. Almost too many training content ideas to list (product training, quizzes, onboarding, how-tos, the whole gamut).
5. Data modeling, analysis, and refinement.

What I use it for the most, though, is refining ideas. Whether it's using Claude, ChatGPT, or my own AI agents, I often times will find myself asking what it finds without me influencing it, what it thinks a piece of writing is missing, or to use academic rigor I may have forgotten (or slept through). It’s a shame that most of us only get to see AI when it's generating silly anime images or is handling inbound chat. When you take the "red pill," you truly get to see how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Alex Snyder · Apr 8, 2025

@Ryan Everson had the best response during last week's RefreshFriday:

Screenshot 2025-04-08 at 10.48.01 AM.png

Tallcool1 · Apr 5, 2025

I can offer you a couple of options that maybe you have or have not thought about. I have personally been a part of both of these so I know that they work.

1. Find an Independent Repair Shop in your area that wants some work. I looked and it seems that there are quite a few shops in Rolla. You supply the parts. This will potentially upset your existing shop because of course you are going to sub out the less complex stuff. On the other hand, they may not care.

2. Run a 2nd shift. This one can be tricky since your store closes at 6:00. When I did this, the sales department was open until 9:00.

I don't know if the second one is really an option for you. You want to improve efficiency, not make it worse. Pushing half done vehicles out so the 2nd shift has a hoist might run you backward.

joe.pistell · Apr 5, 2025

Aimee said:
You can use it to analyze numbers by salesperson: walk-ins, phone-ups, internet leads, etc., to see where the salesman is strongest and where you may have training opportunities. Then, you can have it compare it month over month or three/ six months to see if there are trends.

Remember what I said, the more complex the task, the more prone it is to 'hallucinations'. Amiee's example is complex.

AI struggles with complex MATH calculations. ALWAYS VERIFY.

bringles · Apr 4, 2025

I should add that I have been paying for the unlimited report account for years with no issues, so what changed?

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1. A.P.E (Action, Purpose, Expectation)​

2. T.A.G (Task, Action, Goal)​

3. E.R.A (Expectation, Role, Action)​

4. R.A.C.E (Role, Action, Context, Expectation)​

5. R.I.S.E (Request, Input, Scenario, Expectation)​

6. C.A.R.E (Context, Action, Result, Example)​

7. C.O.A.S.T (Context, Objective, Actions, Steps, Task)​

8. T.R.A.C.E (Task, Role, Action, Context, Expectation)​

9. R.O.S.E.S (Role, Objective, Steps, Expected Solution, Scenario)​

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1. A.P.E (Action, Purpose, Expectation)

2. T.A.G (Task, Action, Goal)

3. E.R.A (Expectation, Role, Action)

4. R.A.C.E (Role, Action, Context, Expectation)

5. R.I.S.E (Request, Input, Scenario, Expectation)

6. C.A.R.E (Context, Action, Result, Example)

7. C.O.A.S.T (Context, Objective, Actions, Steps, Task)

8. T.R.A.C.E (Task, Role, Action, Context, Expectation)

9. R.O.S.E.S (Role, Objective, Steps, Expected Solution, Scenario)