DjSec said:

My point was the game has changed and if dealerships don't learn how to play a new game they will go out of business

Click to expand...

I don't think anyone here disagrees that times have changed. What specifically do you mean when you say dealerships need to learn how to play the new game? Are you referring to pricing, whether to negotiate or not, or something else?

With your own businesses or side jobs, have you ever reduced the overall quote of a design or coding proposal? Ever lowered the quote for an estimate you gave someone body or service work? If so, why? I would bet that some of your reasons are the same reasons dealership's still negotiate.

DjSec said:

instead of attacking me and trying to insult me you might consider this being a topic worth debating, maybe we could both learn something.

Click to expand...

Sorry, my bad.

Forgive my cranky reply. I'm jaded. I spent 10 years in dealerships, followed by 10 years in automotive SaaS surrounded by product people with strong opinions about disrupting the auto industry. Namely, that car dealers needed to be disrupted because everyone "knows" car dealers are not nice people. Their beliefs were based on their experiences as buyers, not sellers.

What?? Our Websites SUCK -more- than buying the car?


See the chart. Our websites suck and that's why Dealers suck. It's why Digital Retailing failed.

Over and over I'd hear devs state "Dealers need to change" yet they never worked in a store, never immersed themselves in this giant beast called a dealership. Try it, you'd never be the same. You'd hear 1st hand how car shoppers are forced to ask car sales reps for answers and many of the sales reps are not product ppl. It's a formula for shoppers making sh*tty decision.

If you are committed to auto retail, find a dealer near you and offer a swap. You offer some consulting advice to them, and you get to observe their store trying to make payroll. Listen to the calls, read the emails, shadow the reps SHOPPERS HAVE QUESTIONS THE INTERNET COULD NOT ANSWER FOR THEM.

Solve this problem and now you've given the shopper far more power in the transaction.

DjSec said:

I once went to a dealership where the salesman initially set a price and then started dropping it as I was walking away, he was negotiating with himself.

Click to expand...

Never owned a retail store have you?
Greg, you own a SaaS, Imagine you had an inventory loan from the bank and payroll and an ad budget... and you havent had a soul in your store in 4 hours. The stress is real.

Your overhead is your bedroom. Let go of the mouse and get out of the house and see the world.

DjSec said:

No disrespect, but wasn’t it the dealers who invented the negotiation game in the first place?

Nowadays, the internet has flipped the script.

I once went to a dealership where the salesman initially set a price and then started dropping it as I was walking away, he was negotiating with himself.

With instant access to data, price comparisons, and market insights, combined with economic pressures like mass layoffs, tariffs, and the rising costs of living, it’s clear that the old rules no longer work.

In my humble opinion your only chance of surviving is rethinking how you'll play the game.

Click to expand...

Who invented the negotiation game in real estate?

BillVaughnAlWestNissan said:

That being said, I've been very purposeful to do everything I can to try to raise the perception of us as a dealer and avoid any negative reactions or reviews from guests. While I always default to take care of the customer when it's even slightly reasonable to do so essentially, any guest complaint we take immediate care of whatever the problem is. No, "well they bought it as is," "the car is 15 years old," "it has 150,000 miles," etc. Just fix it. We need happy customers and can't afford unhappy ones. Agree or disagree with this?

Click to expand...

Bill, I absolutely agree. Just fix it.

I go through this from time to time. Sell a car in November, and the following April the A/C doesn't work. It was 20 degrees when they bought it. They didn't know it wasn't working. I didn't know it wasn't working. I fix it. Just did a Compressor in a 2020 Chevy Blazer.

Heated seat in a Expedition, same thing. I fix it.

Now understand, I am using Cheap Amazon level parts or even used parts to minimize cost. But the customer doesn't care nor do they ask. They want the A/C and the Heated Seat to work. That's all they want.

Some of my peers tell me that I am a pushover. I don't care. I want repeat customers. Gross $3,000 on a customer and then blow them away over a $200 repair? No way.

I think it is front and center at the majority of dealerships. Appointment schedules are generally handled through our CRM tools, and there is plenty of reporting on appointments. However, the legacy CRM systems don't have the functionality of automatically sending Outlook / Google Calendar invites to customers, as far as I know.

I do think the calendar invite would be a good feature and could act as additional 'reminder' step for the customer, and possibly increase show rates.

The reality is that the shopper will arrive when they can, regardless of what time you agree on. I would guess that most shoppers / customers don't view their appointment times as a firm appointments like doctors, dentists, etc. Service appointments are definitely more 'firm' than sales without a doubt, but ask your service advisors, most are either early or late.

DjSec said:

1. Would that prevent you from answering it?
2. What would a email from a customer normally look?
3. How would a dealership take advantage of this technology?

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1. Shoppers have been beating dealers up for so may years, they distrust everything (i.e. 'buyers are liars')
2. Shopper never communicate with conviction, they play a game called 'negotiation'.
3. copy/paste into any AI.

p.s. Shoppers want to negotiate, NOT dealers.

Alex Snyder said:

I'm saying this in this thread because all these dots may become disconnected if we cannot keep AI economically feasible for the peasants (you and me). Thus, I have to wonder if AI will be smooth enough for my mother-in-law to use as an assistant. It is mostly used like this by the Uncle Joe's of the world.

Click to expand...

DeepSeek absolutely changed everything. DeepSeek claims their models are significantly more efficient than GPT-4, using about 5-7x less computational power. This means for every 5-7 servers that ChatGPT (GPT-4) needs, DeepSeek might only need 1 server to accomplish similar tasks.

AI is going to shape shift itself. Giant AI models can help health care by automating paperwork, read images, or assist in cancer research and drug dev. Or, AI can get so small and cheap that AI models can run on small battery operated appliances.

1. The massive expensive cloud-based systems will solve massive problems.
2. Smaller, specialized models will run on 'smaller, dumber, more focused LLMs'.
3. 'Model Compression" is real, they're running locally tiny devices now.

AI assistants on on your mother in laws phone will have fully engaging natural -NON TECHNICAL- conversations to help her with the simple things in life.

Sorry to hear about the tornado. Hopefully, you all dig out and rebuild quickly!

BillVaughnAlWestNissan said:

Another week down. Moving too fast without seeing an immediate impact. Just have to stay the course, though.

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That's the hardest part of what you're doing. The only way you'll realize how impactful you've been is by benchmarking the current situation and then measuring against it one year from now. Seasonality, along with changing economic conditions, is a major factor.
I may have missed it in this thread, but there are some benchmarks you should record now. Here are a few that come to mind:

• Email response rate for salespeople
• Texting to appointment rate
• Appointment scheduling rate
• Appointment show rate
• Count of sales agents
• Avg time on job per agent

Seasonality and economics have an impact:

• Avg sales per agent/store
• Avg gross per agent/store
• Percentage of sales customers using service per month
• Percentage of service customers buying cars each month
• Percentage of past sold customers buying cars each month

joe.pistell said:

• Create special word tracks that specifically address this friction

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IMO I can tell you that the biggest word track change that greatly impacts this is the response to the shopper when they present their distance as an objection. (we have stores in rural NE and MO so this is common)

Shopper (assumes it's a problem), "I live two hours away."
Wrong response by salesperson (responds in a tone that agrees it's a problem), "Oh, shoot, yeah, let me see if I can get you some sight unseen numbers on your trade and payment."
Better response by salesperson (responds in a tone with excitement and positivity), "Perfect, let's look at times that work for you and we'll make sure everyone is ready to appraise your trade, the car is pulled up and ready to drive, and we get you out of here in a reasonable time for you to enjoy that drive back. "

If the shopper objects, then yes, make it easier for them to get information (isolating the particular information that is preventing them from making the drive) and stay excited about the visit. Post-Covid Salespeople are always surprised if they just keep their intonation positive, that customers will follow their lead.

I'm still wondering when the real costs of AI will hit us. The behemoth systems draw insane amounts of power. If the current administration can "unlock" cheap fuel, we may continue to see AI availability remain a low bar for individuals.

I'm saying this in this thread because all these dots may become disconnected if we cannot keep AI economically feasible for the peasants (you and me). Thus, I have to wonder if AI will be smooth enough for my mother-in-law to use as an assistant. It is mostly used like this by the Uncle Joe's of the world.

jscole86 said:

It looks like one of those custom broker templated emails that we all get!

Click to expand...

I asked AI to improve the email to get the GSM's buy in

Subject: Request for Quote: 2024 Equinox RS

Dear [Dealer Name],

I'm ready to purchase a 2024 Chevrolet Equinox RS and noticed you have one available (VIN: [Vehicle VIN]). Your vehicle matches my requirements perfectly, and I'm prepared to make a decision today.

Feel free to call me directly before sending your quote - I welcome a quick conversation to discuss the vehicle. This might help you understand my needs better before providing your offer.

To help me finalize my purchase:
- I'm requesting your complete out-the-door price
- I have pre-approved financing at [rate]% but would consider your financing options
- I have no trade-in, which simplifies the transaction
- I can place a $500 deposit today to secure the vehicle pending a test drive

What attracts me to your dealership specifically is [personalized reason if possible]. I value transparency and am committed to a straightforward purchase process.

I look forward to your response and potentially doing business with you today.

Thank you,
[Your Name]
[Your Phone Number]
[Your Email Address]

BillVaughnAlWestNissan said:

This is cool, but I’m not remotely surprised. This is definitely the future. I wonder what happens when AI starts negotiating with AI.

Questions: Did it look into dealer reviews? Was it able to read the vehicle history report?

Interesting takeaway: The RS model comes standard with remote start. This should be a sign to dealers that they better get their descriptions figured out.

Problem: I think most dealers will agree with this. That emails looks 100% like a scam email.

Click to expand...

It looks like one of those custom broker templated emails that we all get!

You now have a look into the future.​

I wrote this LI essay 16 months ago:
Digital Personal Assistants (DPA), powered by AI are going to disrupt nearly EVERYTHING. It's 100% on track.

All of the building blocks are here, we're an "AI wrapper' away from this becoming an app on the phone. The disruption that this sets up is Defcon 2 for for the marketing industry and a giant boon for dealers.

THE PLOT THICKENS...
SHOPPER:
I am ready to buy one. I like all three. You are a savvy dealer negotiator, you are to create an email strategy that will get the dealer to offer us their best price upfront before I come in for a test drive. If your strategy includes letting the dealers know that I looking at 2 other identical vehicles, I am ok with what ever strategy that gives us the best leverage. If your strategy is full transparency of what we're looking at, I am ok with that. Let them know, I am ready to go, my next step is scheduling a test drive, then, if I like it, I'll buy it that day. I have no tradein. Lets discuss your strategy and If I like it, I'll have you prepare the email(s).

ROBOT:
Here’s a strong negotiation strategy that will maximize your leverage:

1. Leverage Competition: Inform each dealer that you are considering three identical 2024 Chevrolet Equinox RS models from different dealerships. Let them know you are looking for the best possible price before coming in for a test drive.
2. Express Readiness to Buy: Emphasize that you are a serious buyer, ready to make a purchase the same day if the test drive goes well. This urgency can push dealers to give their best offer upfront.
3. No Trade-in, Straightforward Sale: Mentioning that you have no trade-in keeps the deal simple, allowing the dealer to focus purely on price negotiation.
4. Request Out-the-Door Pricing: Ask for a detailed breakdown of the final price, including taxes, fees, and any dealer add-ons. This prevents hidden costs from creeping in later.
5. Full Transparency (Optional): If you’re comfortable, we can be fully transparent and mention the exact competing offers. However, if you'd prefer a more competitive approach, we can simply state that you have two other identical vehicles lined up and will go with the best-priced option.

Would you like a fully transparent approach, or should we keep some details vague to maximize negotiation power? Once you confirm, I'll draft the emails for you.

SHOPPER:
I want best price upfront, transparent.

ROBOT:
Great choice! I will draft emails to each dealer with full transparency, stating that you are considering three identical 2024 Chevrolet Equinox RS models and want their best upfront price before scheduling a test drive. The emails will emphasize that you are ready to buy immediately if the test drive goes well, have no trade-in, and want an out-the-door price breakdown.


I’ll prepare the emails now and share them with you for review before you send them.
Research completed in 12m · 23 sources

Subject: Ready to Buy Today - Best Out-the-Door Offer Wins

Dear [Dealer Name],

I'm prepared to purchase a used 2024 Chevrolet Equinox RS immediately. I'm considering three nearly identical vehicles at Bridgeland Auto Brokers, Reymore Chevrolet, and Maguire Nissan, including yours (VIN: [Vehicle VIN]). I will have no trade-in.

Please provide your absolute best out-the-door price today— I am offering to you, in writing, that I will not negotiate further (assuming condition and test drive meet expectations). Once I have all offers, I’ll place a $500 conditional deposit with the dealer offering the best price to reserve the vehicle and schedule a test drive ASAP.

I have financing pre-approved, but I'm open to financing through your dealership if you can match or beat my current rate.

Again, this is not a negotiation, I look forward to your prompt reply with your most competitive, out-the-door price.

Thank you,

[Your Name]
[Your Phone Number]
[Your Email Address]

SHOPPER:
This is great info. Create a 'one pager' summary of these 3, tell me the dealer name, phone number and an email address to send the dealer an offer. Then, tell me the Year, Make, Model, Trim and miles. Add the color of each one and the interior color too. Add a snippet about the features. I will use this page to organize my process.

ROBOT:
I'll gather the dealer contact details, including phone numbers and email addresses, as well as the vehicle details like year, make, model, trim, mileage, exterior and interior colors. Additionally, I'll provide a summarized feature highlight for each vehicle. I'll update you once I have everything ready!

Research completed in 9m · 39 sources

Used 2024 Chevrolet Equinox RS – Syracuse, NY (Dealership Comparison)​

Bridgeland Auto Brokers – 2024 Chevrolet Equinox RS (AWD)​

• Dealer Contact: Bridgeland Auto Brokers (Bridgeport, NY) – Phone: (315) 633-7060 – Email: wecare@syracusecars.com
  
  cleancarscheap.com
• Vehicle: 2024 Chevrolet Equinox RS, All-Wheel Drive – Mileage: 9,617 miles
  cars.com
• Exterior / Interior Color: Gray / Jet Black
  cars.com
• Key Features: Heated front seats, keyless entry/start, navigation, power liftgate, premium audio, Bluetooth® and Wi-Fi connectivity, plus advanced safety aids (automatic emergency braking, blind-spot monitor, lane departure warning, rear cross-traffic alert, etc.)
  cars.com

Reymore Chevrolet Sales, Inc. – 2024 Chevrolet Equinox RS (AWD)​

• Dealer Contact: Reymore Chevrolet Sales, Inc. (Central Square, NY) – Phone: (315) 538-9243 – Email: No direct email listed (contact via website form)
  capitalone.com
  reymore.com
• Vehicle: 2024 Chevrolet Equinox RS, All-Wheel Drive – Mileage: 2,293 miles
  cars.com
• Exterior / Interior Color: Iridescent Pearl Tricoat / Jet Black
  cars.com
• Key Features: Adaptive cruise control, heated seats (with heated steering wheel), power liftgate, leather seating, Android Auto® integration, premium sound system, and a suite of safety features including blind-spot monitor, lane departure warning, rear cross-traffic alert, and automatic emergency braking
  cars.com

Maguire Nissan of Syracuse – 2024 Chevrolet Equinox RS (AWD)​

• Dealer Contact: Maguire Nissan of Syracuse (Syracuse, NY) – Phone: (315) 802-4432 – Email: bwickham@maguirecars.com
  maguirenissanofsyracuse.com
  maguirenissanofsyracuse.com
• Vehicle: 2024 Chevrolet Equinox RS, All-Wheel Drive – Mileage: 8,006 miles
  maguirenissanofsyracuse.com
• Exterior / Interior Color: Summit White / Jet Black
  maguirenissanofsyracuse.com
• Key Features: Lane departure warning, automatic dual-zone climate control, OnStar® emergency communication, premium audio system, wireless phone connectivity (Bluetooth), parking sensors, auto high-beam headlights, heated front seats, and remote keyless entry
  maguirenissanofsyracuse.com

SHOPPER: Very good, now lets compare the features. Look at the key features for each vehicle. Create a total count for each vehicle, then list features that are seen only on that vehicle (not on the other two). Then, lets look for look for features not seen on one vehicle, but seen on the other two.

ROBOT:
Here's a clear breakdown of the features to help you compare:

Step 1: Total Key Feature Count per Vehicle​

---

Step 2: Unique Features (Only on One Vehicle)​

---

Step 3: Missing Features (Present in Two Vehicles but Absent in the Third)​

Explanation:

• Navigation System: Seen in Bridgeland and Reymore, but missing from Maguire.
• Remote Start: Seen in Reymore and Maguire, but missing from Bridgeland.

---

Summary of Comparison:​

• Reymore Chevrolet offers the most features (12) and has notable exclusive features like Adaptive Cruise Control, Leather-appointed seats, and a Heated Steering Wheel.
• Bridgeland Auto Brokers stands out with its Bose Premium Sound System but lacks Remote Start.
• Maguire Nissan offers a competitive price but misses out on Navigation, with no exclusive features.

Given this comparison, Reymore Chevrolet has the richest feature set, followed closely by Bridgeland Auto Brokers, with Maguire Nissan offering fewer features overall.

This is an interesting study of FRICTION:

Take a min and reflect on this info. From your shoppers POV, the distance to your store is a big deal and it's totally overlooked. (table construction details below). As a merchandising expert, I need to create content to 'work' this audience.

LONG DISTANCE SUMMARY:
• 60% of this stores leads are far away and the shopper knows it.
DISC TAKEAWAYS:
• Anyone that is this far away AND sent you a lead is VERY interested in that VIN.
• Help your long distance shoppers feel more confident with helpful concierge-like services.
• Create special word tracks that specifically address this friction
• Find a way to get this process into your CRM (i.e. add to autoresponder)
• BONUS: Get this dialed in, then add this content on your VDPs, your long distance shoppers will see less friction. (idea: use dedicated phone # for concierge svcs)

Table construction details:
•••DL your leads into a csv, then use BatchGeo.com. You will get straight line distance, I added a 1.3 multiplier to approximate drive times for this store.•••

I created these 'drive time buckets' to approximate the planning required to see the car (i.e. Think FRICTION)
• Under 30 min drive is local. No significant planning is needed, no need for an appt, just show up. Shopper is highly likey to visit other stores.
• All over 30 mins is a planned visit. Shopper wants a productive visit.
• 30-60 min drive is semi local. Planning is required. Shopper is highly likely to visit other stores.
• 1-2 hrs away is a 'day trip'. Shopper has landed hard on your VIN, they are NOT likely to visit other stores.
• >2 hours away, Shopper has landed hard on your VIN, great planning, communication and concierge-like services. Shipping as a service may reduce friction for some.

Love to hear what the grand master of long distance selling has to say... @BillVaughnAlWestNissan ?

Ryan Everson said:

70 million people are signed up for USPS Informed Delivery, where they receive a daily email with images of their incoming mail.

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Something I have and never considered at all - Great Call!

Dan Sayer said:

We don't have our RouteOne credit applications tracking as a Key Event because 99% of the submissions are directed there by the store as part of the sales process. They also don't trigger an XML new lead notification to the CRM for that same reason. How many of your credit applications are "first time hand raisers" starting with a credit application vs your credit application is being used because your sales people are sending them the link or directing them there as part of the sales process?

Click to expand...

We do get a handful of shotgun credit applications each month from customers that haven't talked to anyone at the store.

But, this was exactly what my plan was, to just remove our website credit link from Key Events reporting because like you say. Most of the submissions are from sales guys sending the link. We probably get 3-7 a month in the shotgun method (1st point of contact with us).

flosho said:

Thank you for all the insights Dan.

I have a tangential question related to GA4. We do have key events set up. Unfortunately, we are getting skewed data from our credit application key event. It will give me a count like 256 key events in a month, but we don't get that many credit apps each month.

Our website has a RouteOne credit application integration and it would appear that it counts a key event every time the credit app link is clicked, instead of every time there is a submission. I've been told that there may not be a great way to track these submissions (like add a "thank you for your credit app submission" page and count the key even on that page instead of the initial link click.) We are on the basic R1 plan so we don't get partial credit app captures which I think is an option.

I can track the standard lead submissions pretty easily and just not count the credit apps but that's not the best route either.

Click to expand...

We don't have our RouteOne credit applications tracking as a Key Event because 99% of the submissions are directed there by the store as part of the sales process. They also don't trigger an XML new lead notification to the CRM for that same reason. How many of your credit applications are "first time hand raisers" starting with a credit application vs your credit application is being used because your sales people are sending them the link or directing them there as part of the sales process?