Jeff Kershner:
And exactly what dealer do you work for "AB"?
Fletcher Jones Toyota
=]
And exactly what dealer do you work for "AB"?
Fletcher Jones Toyota
=]
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Are the "Online Phonebook" services like Yellowpages worth anything?
- Thread starter Jeff Kershner
- Start date
This is my last volley on this debate.
AB writes: "...when it comes to search engines versus directories. One is for website traffic, the other is for phone calls. I'd be stupid to try and increase hits to my site through IYP, but it does bring me the sales."
AB,
#1). No... No you wouldn't be stupid to bring customers to your site from ANY directory.
#2). You have no unique tracking phone number for your YellowPages.com phone number.
END OF DISCUSSION.
Joe
p.s. AB get your GM to get your web site out of the SEO toilet. Search for yourself, you'll see what I'm seeing (which is no listings)
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etc...
AB writes: "...when it comes to search engines versus directories. One is for website traffic, the other is for phone calls. I'd be stupid to try and increase hits to my site through IYP, but it does bring me the sales."
AB,
#1). No... No you wouldn't be stupid to bring customers to your site from ANY directory.
#2). You have no unique tracking phone number for your YellowPages.com phone number.
END OF DISCUSSION.
Joe
p.s. AB get your GM to get your web site out of the SEO toilet. Search for yourself, you'll see what I'm seeing (which is no listings)
toyota tundra dealers las vegas
toyota camry dealers las vegas
toyota 4runner dealers las vegas
etc...
AB said,
Yellowpages.com had more local business searches than GOOGLE the first quarter of this year...just search google news for 'yellowpages.com'.
This information comes directly from comScore and other sources...not yellowpages.com
joe pistell said,
"Google is the NEW Yellow Pages."
If you are trying to bring people to your website, yellowpages.com will bring people to it, but that is not the purpose of yellowpages.com and buying a listing with us should not be targeted as a primary way of doing this. It is a way of exposing a large number of people to your business and services so they can call you or come on down. If you are looking to drive a large number of people to your website, you should use some form of search engine marketing for your website. We offer clicks packages and guarantee the traffic to your website.
joe also writes,
#2). You have no unique tracking phone number for your YellowPages.com phone number.
that is wrong. we sell call tracking numbers for all listings
he also wrote this...
p.s. AB get your GM to get your web site out of the SEO toilet. Search for yourself, you'll see what I'm seeing (which is no listings)
try searching for TOYOTA, LAS VEGAS NV, on yellowpages.com. and every dealer in town is listed.
Were you confusing SEO with yellowpages.com? SEO refers to search engines not online directories like us. And believe me, if you go to google and type in TOYOTA TUNDRA LAS VEGAS NV, Centennial Toyota is at the very top of the page.
If you advertise your dealership with yellowpages.com, it would be almost impossibe to not pick up a few extra deals every month as a result. There were over 1800 searches on our directory in May for new car dealers in New York City. NYC may not be the best example because a lot of dealership are in smaller regions, but this is a very strongly searched catagory nationwide, no matter where you are. Do you not think you can convert some of those numbers into sales? Absolutely. And the profit, front end or back end, will pay for the price of the ad.
Yellowpages.com had more local business searches than GOOGLE the first quarter of this year...just search google news for 'yellowpages.com'.
This information comes directly from comScore and other sources...not yellowpages.com
joe pistell said,
"Google is the NEW Yellow Pages."
If you are trying to bring people to your website, yellowpages.com will bring people to it, but that is not the purpose of yellowpages.com and buying a listing with us should not be targeted as a primary way of doing this. It is a way of exposing a large number of people to your business and services so they can call you or come on down. If you are looking to drive a large number of people to your website, you should use some form of search engine marketing for your website. We offer clicks packages and guarantee the traffic to your website.
joe also writes,
#2). You have no unique tracking phone number for your YellowPages.com phone number.
that is wrong. we sell call tracking numbers for all listings
he also wrote this...
p.s. AB get your GM to get your web site out of the SEO toilet. Search for yourself, you'll see what I'm seeing (which is no listings)
try searching for TOYOTA, LAS VEGAS NV, on yellowpages.com. and every dealer in town is listed.
Were you confusing SEO with yellowpages.com? SEO refers to search engines not online directories like us. And believe me, if you go to google and type in TOYOTA TUNDRA LAS VEGAS NV, Centennial Toyota is at the very top of the page.
If you advertise your dealership with yellowpages.com, it would be almost impossibe to not pick up a few extra deals every month as a result. There were over 1800 searches on our directory in May for new car dealers in New York City. NYC may not be the best example because a lot of dealership are in smaller regions, but this is a very strongly searched catagory nationwide, no matter where you are. Do you not think you can convert some of those numbers into sales? Absolutely. And the profit, front end or back end, will pay for the price of the ad.
I know this is an old thread, but I can't believe no one jumped on this one:
>That means if 600 people saw your advertisement, you will average a sale to 60 of them.
????? HHUUUHHH????
By that math, we should have sold 700 cars last month!!!
the real math, using incredibly high ratios:
600 ad impressions
10% CTR = 60 visitors
10% conversion = 6 leads
15% closing ratio = 9/10ths of a sale
>That means if 600 people saw your advertisement, you will average a sale to 60 of them.
????? HHUUUHHH????
By that math, we should have sold 700 cars last month!!!
the real math, using incredibly high ratios:
600 ad impressions
10% CTR = 60 visitors
10% conversion = 6 leads
15% closing ratio = 9/10ths of a sale
Just cancelled online yellow pages last month. Our dealership experienced 85% service call lead generation from it with only 15% sales. I could only track 2 unit sales from it last year. It was cheap, but in the end it was it worth what we paid for it? No. Negative ROI.
Jason wrote....
By that math, we should have sold 700 cars last month!!!
the real math, using incredibly high ratios:
600 ad impressions
10% CTR = 60 visitors
10% conversion = 6 leads
15% closing ratio = 9/10ths of a sale
Try reading the entire thread next time you post Jason....I said that 60 seems awfully high....especially for car sales....so lets say you sold to only 6 people from the ad....etc....what you fail to realize is that it takes only a couple of sales to pay for an entire years worth of advertising....
Bill wrote....
Just cancelled online yellow pages last month. Our dealership experienced 85% service call lead generation from it with only 15% sales. I could only track 2 unit sales from it last year. It was cheap, but in the end it was it worth what we paid for it? No. Negative ROI.
FYI....YOU have no accurate way of tracking the results of YPC....I guarantee you that several of the sales that you had last year were the result of a YPC impression....you just didnt know it....you must buy the call tracking number....THEN you will see just how many phone calls it is generating for you
I dont even work for yellowpages.com anymore....it just amazes me that you guys cant get it through your head that it takes only a couple of sales per YEAR to pay for an entire YEAR worth of advertising....you say the ROI was negative????....you have no idea what you are talking about....and what about all the SERVICE leads....negative ROI....lol
By that math, we should have sold 700 cars last month!!!
the real math, using incredibly high ratios:
600 ad impressions
10% CTR = 60 visitors
10% conversion = 6 leads
15% closing ratio = 9/10ths of a sale
Try reading the entire thread next time you post Jason....I said that 60 seems awfully high....especially for car sales....so lets say you sold to only 6 people from the ad....etc....what you fail to realize is that it takes only a couple of sales to pay for an entire years worth of advertising....
Bill wrote....
Just cancelled online yellow pages last month. Our dealership experienced 85% service call lead generation from it with only 15% sales. I could only track 2 unit sales from it last year. It was cheap, but in the end it was it worth what we paid for it? No. Negative ROI.
FYI....YOU have no accurate way of tracking the results of YPC....I guarantee you that several of the sales that you had last year were the result of a YPC impression....you just didnt know it....you must buy the call tracking number....THEN you will see just how many phone calls it is generating for you
I dont even work for yellowpages.com anymore....it just amazes me that you guys cant get it through your head that it takes only a couple of sales per YEAR to pay for an entire YEAR worth of advertising....you say the ROI was negative????....you have no idea what you are talking about....and what about all the SERVICE leads....negative ROI....lol
Stephen,
In theory, I agree with you. I am inclined to believe that most dealers will recoup their investment in a yellowpages.com ad. I would agree that the ad will generate enough phone calls/walk ins to sell a unit or two, and generate some LOF business in the service department, maybe sell a couple of parts. In theory.
Here is where your argument falls short, and is most likely the reason you are no longer employed by yellowpages.com. You can't sell this type of advertising without being able to justify the investment. And, unfortunately for you, the old "even if you sell just 1 or 2 cars, you make your money back" gimmick just doesn't cut it these days. If dealers bought every advertisement pitched to them that way, most would be out of business. Dealers don't like to hear that pitch, the same way that venture capitalists hate hearing "all we need to do is capture 1 percent of the market to be profitable." It's not that easy!!!
And for you to come on this board and attack the readership who had no luck with your product is just lame. Fact is, most dealers and managers in this business are fairly insightful when it comes to advertising their product and dealership.
If your math wasn't so fuzzy, and your attitude wasn't so abrasive, maybe more dealers would have bought ads from you and you could have stayed out of the unemployment line. "lol"
In theory, I agree with you. I am inclined to believe that most dealers will recoup their investment in a yellowpages.com ad. I would agree that the ad will generate enough phone calls/walk ins to sell a unit or two, and generate some LOF business in the service department, maybe sell a couple of parts. In theory.
Here is where your argument falls short, and is most likely the reason you are no longer employed by yellowpages.com. You can't sell this type of advertising without being able to justify the investment. And, unfortunately for you, the old "even if you sell just 1 or 2 cars, you make your money back" gimmick just doesn't cut it these days. If dealers bought every advertisement pitched to them that way, most would be out of business. Dealers don't like to hear that pitch, the same way that venture capitalists hate hearing "all we need to do is capture 1 percent of the market to be profitable." It's not that easy!!!
And for you to come on this board and attack the readership who had no luck with your product is just lame. Fact is, most dealers and managers in this business are fairly insightful when it comes to advertising their product and dealership.
If your math wasn't so fuzzy, and your attitude wasn't so abrasive, maybe more dealers would have bought ads from you and you could have stayed out of the unemployment line. "lol"
So aren't sales calls important as well...say as for customer service to your current clientele? And can't delareships make great profits with their service? So why no publish a number where they can call for service or sales? I think there is opportunity there. I find it.
And as for what type of media to use, I agree that each dealership has to wiegh the balance. But I always felt that after all my marketing is set and someone wants to call to set up a test drive or get information on a car, the one place they ahve my number is on Yellow Pages. I still do the old version and I am trying the new version. It is starting to take off. I have pulled back in otehr areas like newspaper, but keep billboards and radio as art of my mix. I am in CA were there are dealership malls every where so lcoally I must be competitive.
Does anyone have corproate co-ops or sponsorships? Mine is minimal for YP but wondering if this helps.
And as for what type of media to use, I agree that each dealership has to wiegh the balance. But I always felt that after all my marketing is set and someone wants to call to set up a test drive or get information on a car, the one place they ahve my number is on Yellow Pages. I still do the old version and I am trying the new version. It is starting to take off. I have pulled back in otehr areas like newspaper, but keep billboards and radio as art of my mix. I am in CA were there are dealership malls every where so lcoally I must be competitive.
Does anyone have corproate co-ops or sponsorships? Mine is minimal for YP but wondering if this helps.
How to win the Yellow Pages game (aka less is more)
For 18 months I worked at Verizon as a Yell Page rep (employee of the Month 2 times).
How I limit my spending:
White page listings, bold with yellow highlighting, add webaddress.
Yellow pages: Retain best headings, trim any non-core headings. Commit to Alphebetical listings only. Add bold, add one line with web address.
Franchised dealers dbl. ck to be listed in "TradeMark Listings" (ask for help if needed).
DONE.
(prepare yourself for your YP reps crying and gnashing of teeth)
For the last 4 years I have built web sites for dealers, then got recruited to be an in house Internet Director. I have listened to 100's and 100's of hours of phone calls (10 dedicated 800#'s) AND watched the trends over 3 years. Here are the FACTS according to Joe.
3 years ago, phone traffic from web site was nearly 100% sales, a few service calls here and there.
IN 2007, nearly 35% of incoming phone traffic (from web site) was service and parts requests. By reviewing your traffic records on your sites back end, you'll see the vast majority of SERP visitors* are trying to find your name directly (*SERP = Search Engine Return Page). THIS IS A PHONE BOOK LIKE DIRECTORY REQUEST.
Google has gotten so good at suppling phone numbers AND MAPS that it's now the "directory of choice". See just how awesome goolgle's become, let's look for a cigar store near my zipcode. Google Search A friggin Cigar Store!
Let's talk penetration of this google directory application. Not everyone gets it yet. SO this means it will become more and more pervasive as time moves forward.
Summary.
Move ca$h away from tra$h and amp up your future.
For 18 months I worked at Verizon as a Yell Page rep (employee of the Month 2 times).
How I limit my spending:
White page listings, bold with yellow highlighting, add webaddress.
Yellow pages: Retain best headings, trim any non-core headings. Commit to Alphebetical listings only. Add bold, add one line with web address.
Franchised dealers dbl. ck to be listed in "TradeMark Listings" (ask for help if needed).
DONE.
(prepare yourself for your YP reps crying and gnashing of teeth)
For the last 4 years I have built web sites for dealers, then got recruited to be an in house Internet Director. I have listened to 100's and 100's of hours of phone calls (10 dedicated 800#'s) AND watched the trends over 3 years. Here are the FACTS according to Joe.
3 years ago, phone traffic from web site was nearly 100% sales, a few service calls here and there.
IN 2007, nearly 35% of incoming phone traffic (from web site) was service and parts requests. By reviewing your traffic records on your sites back end, you'll see the vast majority of SERP visitors* are trying to find your name directly (*SERP = Search Engine Return Page). THIS IS A PHONE BOOK LIKE DIRECTORY REQUEST.
Google has gotten so good at suppling phone numbers AND MAPS that it's now the "directory of choice". See just how awesome goolgle's become, let's look for a cigar store near my zipcode. Google Search A friggin Cigar Store!
Let's talk penetration of this google directory application. Not everyone gets it yet. SO this means it will become more and more pervasive as time moves forward.
Summary.
Move ca$h away from tra$h and amp up your future.
Tim Morris wrote....
"Here is where your argument falls short, and is most likely the reason you are no longer employed by yellowpages.com. You can't sell this type of advertising without being able to justify the investment."
IMHO....you can NEVER justify the investment when it comes to advertising....even though YPC has the highest ROI in the business....
I honestly began to loathe the job....they try to convince their employees during training that its not telemarketing....but it is....it is the most refined form of telemarketing out there....I couldn't stand being hung up on dozens of times a day after saying "yellow pages" or after barely getting a word out of your mouth....
I tried to sell to dealerships a few times....but the GMs think they know everything and aren't willing to listen to you....that got old quick....
Sorry I was abrasive....its just a little frustrating when you look at the thousands upon thousands of dollars that a dealership spends on wasted advertising every month and wont bother to spend a minute fraction of that on YPC when I know that it actually will turn a profit....not to mention that a lot of the money that dealerships spend on advertising comes directly from the manufacturer....
I am going back into the car business....
"Here is where your argument falls short, and is most likely the reason you are no longer employed by yellowpages.com. You can't sell this type of advertising without being able to justify the investment."
IMHO....you can NEVER justify the investment when it comes to advertising....even though YPC has the highest ROI in the business....
I honestly began to loathe the job....they try to convince their employees during training that its not telemarketing....but it is....it is the most refined form of telemarketing out there....I couldn't stand being hung up on dozens of times a day after saying "yellow pages" or after barely getting a word out of your mouth....
I tried to sell to dealerships a few times....but the GMs think they know everything and aren't willing to listen to you....that got old quick....
Sorry I was abrasive....its just a little frustrating when you look at the thousands upon thousands of dollars that a dealership spends on wasted advertising every month and wont bother to spend a minute fraction of that on YPC when I know that it actually will turn a profit....not to mention that a lot of the money that dealerships spend on advertising comes directly from the manufacturer....
I am going back into the car business....
