All lead sources provide the same thing, it's how you respond to a lead that effects the ultimate outcome. I keep perspective by understanding that sales, in a nutshell is a numbers game - period. However as an outside the box type of guy, I really think consumers will eventually pay for a quote, and I'm creating the model for it now. It makes sense because if they (the consumer) know they would be getting a for sure, ultra low and very competitive price with full details on the vehicle, they'd pay to get it... versus what they really get now, hoping that their free quote request will be replied to. I know that in my market, I'm the only guy with my brand to make real follow up calls, and follow up emails hand written, versus the other guys who still send the same boring emails devoid of any substance - asking them to call them to get the information they requested. I'd be willing to try to get customers to pay for a quote. It's unchartered territory, but isn't that where entrepreneurs like to roam?
-
This thread is just the tip of the iceberg.The people ahead of the curve aren't Googling for answers — they're already in here, having the conversations you haven't found yet. DealerRefresh is free.Get the full picture →
Blueprint Series: Third-Party Lead Providers
- Thread starter Alex Snyder
- Start date
- Apr 15, 2009
- 22
- 0
- Awards
- 2
- First Name
- Mike
Your concept relies on all dealers not providing prices quotes over the phone. I know many that do currently and more that are moving that way. It's up for healthy debate but I wonder if consumers are willing to pay you for the privilege of paying you. 
Right now, in general, all leads look the same, and therefore are pretty much priced the same. Yet, some of us posting state that some lead generators have better quality leads than others. So why is it that the lead generators all charge pretty much the same price per lead? COuld it be they don't know what leads close outside of the retailer the lead was sent to? Probably.......lead generators (including dealers own websites and microsites) can't provide true closing rates for those leads. They can only tell you if a lead closed at your dealership, not whether it closed at all, or if it closed at a competitors store. These companies would need to have registration data to do that, and the ability to match lead information to other demographic info to confirm who the lead is.
Your best bet to verify lead generation companies close rates is to have a third party verifying all your lead sources and inform you of what is happening to your leads in the marketplace in general, not just at your dealerhship!
Your best bet to verify lead generation companies close rates is to have a third party verifying all your lead sources and inform you of what is happening to your leads in the marketplace in general, not just at your dealerhship!
McCoy,
Your scenario sounds great for that 1 out of every 100 that goes through it. Realistically speaking, that doesn't happen an overwhelming majority of the time.
My background is Marketing and eCommerce, not cars. I handle those duties for 2 large domestic dealerships. I'm hourly analyzing my website traffic, phone traffic and walk-in traffic to better understand where these customers originate. I'm actually an employee of those dealerships and not a vendor.
Only had one of those dealerships a short time so will use the one I have the most information gathered.
I currently get in the neighborhood of 30,000 unique visitors per month, 18k of which are pre-owned. I used several different sites to drive and track our website traffic. I used just one to pick up traffic from cars.com and autotrader.com so it's fairly easy to see what they do regarding referrals.
cars.com is well behind autotrader in page referrals 242 - 88.
that's real numbers, not in hundreds.
granted, we spend more money with autotrader and I see spikes with spotlights.
unique phone calls are 43 - 12, again for autotrader.
I sold 2 cars.com customers last month.
My website visitors just on one site, nothing but SEM/PPC no SEO. are 8,000+ uniques.
My unique phone calls off that same site are 472 email leads are over 300
When I said I was there because my competitors were, I really meant that. I get nil to nothing off of those sites. With pricing, especially Autotrader going the direction it is, I'm soon going to stop thinking "it's so little money we have to be there"
Obviously, the koolaid tastes better to you because it pays your bills.
At this point, it's just another bill to me without ROI
Your scenario sounds great for that 1 out of every 100 that goes through it. Realistically speaking, that doesn't happen an overwhelming majority of the time.
My background is Marketing and eCommerce, not cars. I handle those duties for 2 large domestic dealerships. I'm hourly analyzing my website traffic, phone traffic and walk-in traffic to better understand where these customers originate. I'm actually an employee of those dealerships and not a vendor.
Only had one of those dealerships a short time so will use the one I have the most information gathered.
I currently get in the neighborhood of 30,000 unique visitors per month, 18k of which are pre-owned. I used several different sites to drive and track our website traffic. I used just one to pick up traffic from cars.com and autotrader.com so it's fairly easy to see what they do regarding referrals.
cars.com is well behind autotrader in page referrals 242 - 88.
that's real numbers, not in hundreds.
granted, we spend more money with autotrader and I see spikes with spotlights.
unique phone calls are 43 - 12, again for autotrader.
I sold 2 cars.com customers last month.
My website visitors just on one site, nothing but SEM/PPC no SEO. are 8,000+ uniques.
My unique phone calls off that same site are 472 email leads are over 300
When I said I was there because my competitors were, I really meant that. I get nil to nothing off of those sites. With pricing, especially Autotrader going the direction it is, I'm soon going to stop thinking "it's so little money we have to be there"
Obviously, the koolaid tastes better to you because it pays your bills.
At this point, it's just another bill to me without ROI
A little background on me, I have been involved with automotive internet sales for over nine years now and I have dealt with I think every vendor out there including special finance vendors etc.
If you take a real hard look at third party lead provider's I think you might agree that we are competing for the same leads on the web as the providers we purchase from. So what happens here is we perform SEO and SEM then we turn around and purchase leads from providers that have advertised our products for less money than we want to sell them for such as carsbelowinvoice.com who buys those leads? I know, do you? Try this, type the name of your dealership into Yahoo such as Jim Glover Chevrolet. You should not see Jim Glovers name being used although I am having a hard time with Nextag.com they sell those leads to? So what is happening is these lead providers are using our names of our dealerships to entice consumers to their websites right next to ours. Then we pay them up to how much a lead, (better if it is scrubbed right) So what I want from third party lead providers is to stop advertising on the same plat form as I am advertising on, but with no wakeup call from all dealerships I do not see that happening. Think about it, why pay for someone else to advertise right next to us on the same venue? Makes no sense does it? But we have all been doing it for years, yet who has woke up to the facts?
I have not purchased third party leads this last year, instead I have taken that money and put it into NAME BRANDING, or direct advertising, We enjoy a great amount of quality leads, and better name branding for the store. Now what are you going to do?
Also Come on, Autotrader and Cars.com are NOT third party lead providers unless you purhase new lead plus from Cars.com Autotrader and Cars.om are advertising venues, we dealers pay to advertise on these sites..
Just an opinion of another Internet Director
If you take a real hard look at third party lead provider's I think you might agree that we are competing for the same leads on the web as the providers we purchase from. So what happens here is we perform SEO and SEM then we turn around and purchase leads from providers that have advertised our products for less money than we want to sell them for such as carsbelowinvoice.com who buys those leads? I know, do you? Try this, type the name of your dealership into Yahoo such as Jim Glover Chevrolet. You should not see Jim Glovers name being used although I am having a hard time with Nextag.com they sell those leads to? So what is happening is these lead providers are using our names of our dealerships to entice consumers to their websites right next to ours. Then we pay them up to how much a lead, (better if it is scrubbed right) So what I want from third party lead providers is to stop advertising on the same plat form as I am advertising on, but with no wakeup call from all dealerships I do not see that happening. Think about it, why pay for someone else to advertise right next to us on the same venue? Makes no sense does it? But we have all been doing it for years, yet who has woke up to the facts?
I have not purchased third party leads this last year, instead I have taken that money and put it into NAME BRANDING, or direct advertising, We enjoy a great amount of quality leads, and better name branding for the store. Now what are you going to do?
Also Come on, Autotrader and Cars.com are NOT third party lead providers unless you purhase new lead plus from Cars.com Autotrader and Cars.om are advertising venues, we dealers pay to advertise on these sites..
Just an opinion of another Internet Director
I am the General Manager for www.duPontREGISTRY.com. We are not a lead provider, but rather an online advertising media. Our niche is putting our affluent marketplace to work for highline dealers. I know that this may not fit in the current discussion but I would like to ask a couple of questions that I think may apply. “How important is your relationship with your account executive,” and, “What do you want/expect from them?”
Thanks
Thanks
- Dec 27, 2010
- 24
- 2
- First Name
- Christopher
Well I weighed in awhile ago and can't believe the traffic this thread received. In reading some comments, I guess this can be broken down a couple of ways.
One-
Lead providers are those that provide leads. I would usually define that as a purchased lead, including but not limited to; Dealix, Carsdirect and Cars.com's NewLeadsplus. These leads are supposed to be scrubbed, proprietary leads from some unknown source in Leadland.
What I want from them is along the lines of what Jeff said. I want what you are claiming to be selling to me. I want real leads with a chance of conversion. "Scrubbed" has to be the most abused, subjective word in our business. I want one company (or more) to step up and deliver (yes, like the good ole fax days).
Problem is; I think this model is going to be obsolete soon. People don't just hit one source. So even though they might apply for something and it isn't being sold by another lead provider, doesn't mean that they haven't or won't fill out more inquiries elsewhere. Too many unique lead providers means none of them are unique anymore. I could be wrong, but I think this is going away.
Two-
Leads that are derived off of our inventory. I have been doing a lot of thinking on this lately and still stick with my first comment. However, I would like to add a bit more clarification.
Yes, seeing page views is neat and could provide some point of reference. I still firmly believe it is not indicative of true performance; both internally and externally.
I believe that there is still no way to track all the people that simply walk in, view a map, or don't get tracked at a showroom level. Therefore, it should be treated just other advertising and not held to a completely different standard.
I think a fix would be change the format completely. Maybe make the browsing only available by creating an account. Integrate RSS feeds for vehicles they want. Do targeted marketing and allow Dealers to buy specific ads. Send a summary of people who actually clicked on your ads for the month or create a neutral tool that will cross reference it with your DMS sold vehicles. Give premium placement to the dealers with the most photos, prices and custom comments. Allow the good dealers to shine.
You know what they say, "The definition of Insanity..."
One-
Lead providers are those that provide leads. I would usually define that as a purchased lead, including but not limited to; Dealix, Carsdirect and Cars.com's NewLeadsplus. These leads are supposed to be scrubbed, proprietary leads from some unknown source in Leadland.
What I want from them is along the lines of what Jeff said. I want what you are claiming to be selling to me. I want real leads with a chance of conversion. "Scrubbed" has to be the most abused, subjective word in our business. I want one company (or more) to step up and deliver (yes, like the good ole fax days).
Problem is; I think this model is going to be obsolete soon. People don't just hit one source. So even though they might apply for something and it isn't being sold by another lead provider, doesn't mean that they haven't or won't fill out more inquiries elsewhere. Too many unique lead providers means none of them are unique anymore. I could be wrong, but I think this is going away.
Two-
Leads that are derived off of our inventory. I have been doing a lot of thinking on this lately and still stick with my first comment. However, I would like to add a bit more clarification.
Yes, seeing page views is neat and could provide some point of reference. I still firmly believe it is not indicative of true performance; both internally and externally.
I believe that there is still no way to track all the people that simply walk in, view a map, or don't get tracked at a showroom level. Therefore, it should be treated just other advertising and not held to a completely different standard.
I think a fix would be change the format completely. Maybe make the browsing only available by creating an account. Integrate RSS feeds for vehicles they want. Do targeted marketing and allow Dealers to buy specific ads. Send a summary of people who actually clicked on your ads for the month or create a neutral tool that will cross reference it with your DMS sold vehicles. Give premium placement to the dealers with the most photos, prices and custom comments. Allow the good dealers to shine.
You know what they say, "The definition of Insanity..."
- Dec 27, 2010
- 24
- 2
- First Name
- Christopher
Frank Wrote:
"If you take a real hard look at third party lead provider's I think you might agree that we are competing for the same leads on the web as the providers we purchase from. So what happens here is we perform SEO and SEM then we turn around and purchase leads from providers that have advertised our products for less money than we want to sell them for such as carsbelowinvoice.com who buys those leads? I know, do you? Try this, type the name of your dealership into Yahoo such as Jim Glover Chevrolet. You should not see Jim Glovers name being used although I am having a hard time with Nextag.com they sell those leads to? So what is happening is these lead providers are using our names of our dealerships to entice consumers to their websites right next to ours. Then we pay them up to how much a lead, (better if it is scrubbed right) So what I want from third party lead providers is to stop advertising on the same plat form as I am advertising on, but with no wakeup call from all dealerships I do not see that happening. Think about it, why pay for someone else to advertise right next to us on the same venue? Makes no sense does it? But we have all been doing it for years, yet who has woke up to the facts?"
Amen. Another reason why I don't and haven't used them for awhile. Put this in any other venue and you would say that it doesn't make any sense. So why do we support them? Afraid of missing the market on something?
Either way, well put Frank.
"If you take a real hard look at third party lead provider's I think you might agree that we are competing for the same leads on the web as the providers we purchase from. So what happens here is we perform SEO and SEM then we turn around and purchase leads from providers that have advertised our products for less money than we want to sell them for such as carsbelowinvoice.com who buys those leads? I know, do you? Try this, type the name of your dealership into Yahoo such as Jim Glover Chevrolet. You should not see Jim Glovers name being used although I am having a hard time with Nextag.com they sell those leads to? So what is happening is these lead providers are using our names of our dealerships to entice consumers to their websites right next to ours. Then we pay them up to how much a lead, (better if it is scrubbed right) So what I want from third party lead providers is to stop advertising on the same plat form as I am advertising on, but with no wakeup call from all dealerships I do not see that happening. Think about it, why pay for someone else to advertise right next to us on the same venue? Makes no sense does it? But we have all been doing it for years, yet who has woke up to the facts?"
Amen. Another reason why I don't and haven't used them for awhile. Put this in any other venue and you would say that it doesn't make any sense. So why do we support them? Afraid of missing the market on something?
Either way, well put Frank.
Here is what I want.
1.Exclusive real leads that are actually in the market,not submitted by some unknown gimmick
2.Coversion with metrics reporting to justifly the cost of the product or seervice
3 review of reporting with best practices in this ever changing section of the market.
4. a company that is on the cutting edge ie leads,video,blogs to optimize seo and sem to stay out front of the competition not duplicating it.
Just a Thought!!!
1.Exclusive real leads that are actually in the market,not submitted by some unknown gimmick
2.Coversion with metrics reporting to justifly the cost of the product or seervice
3 review of reporting with best practices in this ever changing section of the market.
4. a company that is on the cutting edge ie leads,video,blogs to optimize seo and sem to stay out front of the competition not duplicating it.
Just a Thought!!!
JL..."Not sure about you, but my mother always told me "if it sounds too good to be true..." and I'm sure you know the rest. If you are holding out hope that a new start up is going to come along and advertise all of your vehicles with customized video presentations, secure credit apps that integrate with your CRM and, hell, detail all of your cars before they take 47 photos of them and all at no cost to you because they "need" your inventory, I'm going to suggest that you don't hold your breath. That makes as much business sense as a dealership giving away cars to build brand loyalty.
You have points but you need to understand that looking at this is an "inherently lazy" approach and "they can do all" look at it.
Custom video? slideshows are not video! and looks still like crap and DOES NOT SELL ANYTHING but can entertain and "maybe" get to the next step of calling for more info or to test drive.
Secure apps? be real about that one because this is not a buy it now checkout for a pair of sunglasses and credit leads are what they are mostly GMD's or the deal was made and now its time to apply securely for the loan online(fax the app still works as well)
Detail your cars? when did porters/detailers becomes part of advertising or lead providing?
Giving away cars? happens everyday...price leaders
Anyway you cut it the only stat I count is if the rep has spoken to the client after the lead. Is there a deal to be worked or appoint to come in and demo? Until then any correspondence is still a hello how are you I was e-driving by and not a customer yet.
Cars, Autotrader and others are not by my definition lead providers in the primary, they are a marketplace to display your vehicle in a collective virtual setting and the lead is a by-product that you get sold the "sizzle" not the steak by cars.com and autotrader.
When is the last time you invited someone to cook your dinner in your own home. It's kind of expensive and that is my point and do agree it may not become totally free but a lot cheaper when someone does offer a much better service that truly is an ad content provider of your merchandise.
Why do you think Cars.com is getting into the website business?
I apologize in advance if this is a bit of a fragmented opinion/response...
Pete
You have points but you need to understand that looking at this is an "inherently lazy" approach and "they can do all" look at it.
Custom video? slideshows are not video! and looks still like crap and DOES NOT SELL ANYTHING but can entertain and "maybe" get to the next step of calling for more info or to test drive.
Secure apps? be real about that one because this is not a buy it now checkout for a pair of sunglasses and credit leads are what they are mostly GMD's or the deal was made and now its time to apply securely for the loan online(fax the app still works as well)
Detail your cars? when did porters/detailers becomes part of advertising or lead providing?
Giving away cars? happens everyday...price leaders
Anyway you cut it the only stat I count is if the rep has spoken to the client after the lead. Is there a deal to be worked or appoint to come in and demo? Until then any correspondence is still a hello how are you I was e-driving by and not a customer yet.
Cars, Autotrader and others are not by my definition lead providers in the primary, they are a marketplace to display your vehicle in a collective virtual setting and the lead is a by-product that you get sold the "sizzle" not the steak by cars.com and autotrader.
When is the last time you invited someone to cook your dinner in your own home. It's kind of expensive and that is my point and do agree it may not become totally free but a lot cheaper when someone does offer a much better service that truly is an ad content provider of your merchandise.
Why do you think Cars.com is getting into the website business?
I apologize in advance if this is a bit of a fragmented opinion/response...
Pete
