Dealers are the a$$holes for "markups" but what about the OEM??

[DrewAment]

Imagine walking the grocery aisle and seeing the equivalent to ADM on a package of bacon

Different, if the ADM for the bacon is not posted in the price online/advertisment. Not publishing the price online, with ADM, is the problem. If dealers were transparent and showed the FULL PRICE (MSRP + ADM) - I think consumers would at least be able to make an educated decision. It's the whole "hiding the ADM in the disclaimer", or just not even putting it online, or having ADM via dealer added accessories that are hard adds and not removable - -and again, not putting the ADM/Equip online in pricing.

Last thought, gas stations run the risk of fines for "price gouging" during high demand caused by extenuating circumstances

Gas is a commodity -- and more a NEED than a want. Plus, and I think that most of my dealers will agree, most people are CHOOSING to come in and buy a new vehicle. Trading in a perfectly good 3-4 year old vehicle -- a WANT.



And, If the OEMs don't like their dealer body doing what they are doing? Look in the mirror. I think we missed the meat of some of those articles. 2 points ..

1. The OEM is raising prices at a tick higher than inflation.
2. They are maximizing profits, just like a dealer.

Economics and capitalism 101??

 

[ryan.leslie]

@Jeff Kershner - Do you think that video could have been a smidge more dramatic? Sheesh. I think I'm all for ADMs on limited run, first edition, future collector status units. The buyer for those likely doesn't need or care about the money. I'm struggling with the regional $5000 markup on a $19,000 Hyundai. That buyer NEEDS to care about the money, and I think we are burying them. When supply returns they will be so far underwater they will likely mail the keys back. That's not good. When an entire market is marking up that feels to me as a consumer like price fixing and/or collusion. That concerns me.

@DrewAment - Thanks for playing ball my friend.

It's the whole "hiding the ADM in the disclaimer", or just not even putting it online, or having ADM via dealer added accessories that are hard adds and not removable - -and again, not putting the ADM/Equip online in pricing.

I am absolutely in agreement with you. I was playing Devil's Advocate on a lot of what I wrote. Truth is I go back and forth on ADM, but I know exactly how I feel about nondisclosure. I think you are playing with reputational fire to hide or obscure anything. One man's opinion, but if you feel like you need to hide it you probably shouldn't be doing it.

Gas is a commodity -- and more a NEED than a want. Plus, and I think that most of my dealers will agree, most people are CHOOSING to come in and buy a new vehicle. Trading in a perfectly good 3-4 year old vehicle -- a WANT.

Agreed, but... I just read that there are 3,000-4,500 NEW federal regulations each year. The public sentiment for ADMs is not positive. I guess I wouldn't put it past a "constituent-centric" politician to grab a handful of examples like the ones you referenced above and wage war on the industry, and it looks like they'd have the public support of the OEMs. Maybe that's a stretch, but it sure feels plausible.

And, If the OEMs don't like their dealer body doing what they are doing? Look in the mirror. I think we missed the meat of some of those articles. 2 points ..

1. The OEM is raising prices at a tick higher than inflation.
2. They are maximizing profits, just like a dealer.

Economics and capitalism 101??

It IS basic supply and demand. I agree with you, but I also think that consumers view an ADM differently than a price hike by a manufacturer. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, but the messaging has to be spot on or I don't think that the consumer will ever see it as more than a cash grab.

 

[Jeff Kershner]

Wow - 90G's over. Whewwww.

BUT, as you can see by the signature - customers are willing to pay it. As crazy as it is.

 

[DrewAment]

Ford again hikes the starting price of the F-150 Lightning pickup, now up 40% since launch

A new price increase of $4,000 means Ford has upped the entry-level pricing of the F-150 Lightning electric pickup by 40% since the vehicle's launch.

www.cnbc.com

I had to cancel my order - not only was I not going to see a "Pro" for a couple years - but there is a difference of 40K vs 58K (probably higher by delivery) for a vehicle that was going to be a 2nd/Fun -- was just over my limit.

 

[Jeff Kershner]

Ford again hikes the starting price of the F-150 Lightning pickup, now up 40% since launch

A new price increase of $4,000 means Ford has upped the entry-level pricing of the F-150 Lightning electric pickup by 40% since the vehicle's launch.

www.cnbc.com

I had to cancel my order - not only was I not going to see a "Pro" for a couple years - but there is a difference of 40K vs 58K (probably higher by delivery) for a vehicle that was going to be a 2nd/Fun -- was just over my limit.

That's a bit on the absurd side. And I'm sure you were getting it without additional mark-up. Any idea what the average mark-up above MSRP Ford dealers are charging for the F-150 Lightening?

BTW - "Lightening" is a STUPID name.

I copied and shared the actual article and posted below. What of course stands out: "critical raw material costs such as cobalt, nickel and lithium have substantially increased amid rising demand and supply chain problems."

With the recent EV push, and now starting to see a few more inquiries for EV's (here at the Mercedes-Benz dealership, though still minuscule) - how on earth are they going to keep the prices in-check if or once there an increase in demand?


-----
DETROIT – Ford Motor has once again increased the starting price of its electric F-150 Lightning, citing higher raw material costs for the pickup truck.

The new price of the F-150 Lightning Pro, an entry-level model meant for commercial and business customers, will be $55,974 — up nearly 8%, or $4,000, from previous pricing and a 40% increase from the original pricing of $39,974 announced in May 2021.

A Ford spokeswoman in an emailed statement Friday said the company adjusts vehicle pricing “as a normal course of business due to rising material costs, market factors, and ongoing supply chain constraints.”

Ford initially made waves when it announced the starting price for the Lightning would be about $40,000, making it more affordable than many EVs on the market. Wall Street praised the vehicle, and it was a major boost for the company at that time.

But critical raw material costs such as cobalt, nickel and lithium have substantially increased amid rising demand and supply chain problems.

The latest pricing increase – at least the third this year – comes as Ford attempts to expand production of the electric pickup to 150,000 units by next fall. The company earlier this week said it remains on track to do so, as it recently added a third shift of workers to a Michigan plant producing the vehicle.

“Demand for this breakthrough vehicle is strong and continues to grow, we will continue to monitor pricing through the model year,” the spokeswoman said in the emailed statement.

Through the end of November, Ford had only sold 13,258 F-150 Lightnings.

 

[Alex Snyder]

With the recent EV push, and now starting to see a few more inquiries for EV's (here at the Mercedes-Benz dealership, though still minuscule) - how on earth are they going to keep the prices in-check if or once there an increase in demand?

The EV wheels were put in motion before Russia destroyed Ukraine and China looks like it is on the verge of economic collapse. Those two countries supplied critical components of the EV battery supply chain. Both looked incredibly stable when most OEMs put their significant investments into EVs.

Now we're going to have to change direction. We will make super-expensive-fun EVs and continue to build internal combustion vehicles for the rest of the price points.

The only "green" direction that has hope is hydrogen. Maybe we'll see a push for that soon

 

[DrewAment]

Alex -- looks like the OEMs are coming to the same conclusion? Or maybe coming around to some of the soothsayers?

Auto executives are less confident in EV adoption than they were a year ago

For the U.S., the median expectation for EV sales was 35% of the market by 2030 — down from 65% a year earlier.

www.cnbc.com

And, the only way to sell EVs at a decent price point is government subsidies?

The Chevy Bolt is about to be a screaming deal – at least until March

With a brief two- to three-month window qualifying for the full $7,500 tax credit, the 2023 Chevy Bolt might be the best value car you can buy.

electrek.co

 

[Alex Snyder]

@DrewAment if you haven't looked up Peter Zeihan on YouTube, do yourself a favor and listen to a few of his talks about Ukraine and China. He's making some incredible predictions where others are not. And his argument is entertaining... his prediction for the US will make an American feel good.

 

[qosha]

As yet another update to this, now targeting nearly $62,000 MSRP...

 

[DrewAment]

Ford slashes prices of F-150 Lightning trucks as EV wars heat up

Ford deepened a price war in the electric-vehicle industry on Monday by slashing the prices of its F-150 Lightning trucks, including a 17% cut for the base model, as it aims to boost its share of an EV market dominated by Tesla .

www.reuters.com

LOL == They lower - but sold out?? "Contact Dealer"?? Made a price cut on something you can't get?

Quote == "The updated MSRP for the Pro model, its lowest priced electric pickup, will be $49,995, down about $10,000. The price for the high-end Platinum Extended Range version of the Lightning was cut from $98,074, to $91,995, a drop of more than $6,000."

UPDATED == "Ford says that build-to-order F-150 Lightnings should be available from October this year."