Hi All - Yes, maps definitely work. Most of our clients are getting 5x as many phone calls off Map results as they do clicks. Ranking on maps is a not a traffic acquisition strategy as organic search domination is better suited to that, especially if you rank on long tail kw's like 'year + car brand + city".
POD Score REVIEW
- Thread starter joe.pistell
- Start date
- Apr 26, 2009
- 89
- 17
- First Name
- Brian
Joe
I want to thank you for the charting which accurately reflects the decrease in click traffic based on position and I like the idea of a scaling factor. The issue of POD Score was intended to raise awareness to a problem of brand attacks from third parties that would love to continue siphoning leads from dealers based on their name.
Respected industry members on this forum and DrivingSales think that this focus will not affect car sales in any measurable way and thus the score has low real value. This argument reminds me of people last year saying that using Facebook will not result in any measurable increase of car sales.
If I was a dealer, I would not want hundreds of clicks a month going to places that represent competition if I can easily stop it. I would not want my disgruntled employees or competitors putting a billboard on Page One searches for my name and attacking with false claims. Anyone who has had a former employee/customer post on RipOffReport.com which gets on Page One can share will you just how many people see that site and comment.
The POD Score was intended to reflect the dealer's local optimization on their name and the opportunity for others to divert traffic away from the dealers website. The concern that all positions are not weighted evenly is valid and I love the collaboration that both website have offered.
As a result, I will modify the formula to weight SERP positioning as well. So if a dealer owns the first five listings for the name, instead of getting a POD Score of 50 it would be higher based on the above the fold argument. The new scaled formula will not be an exact representation of the click frequency chart because the purpose is more than clicks.
Joe, as you point out, Google Maps is a key resource for click traffic and when combined with PPC, the above the fold area is dominated with few organic listings without scrolling. However, to be fair to the POD Score intent, your graphic showing significant PPC stacked on top is not what you see when you type in a dealers name.
When typing in a dealers name into Google, often showing no or low PPC ads, more organics listings show. I understand your thought process about what consumers are doing when they search for a dealers name but I have data that shows you that your conclusion is not completely accurate. Your "TOP PICK INSTANT SATISFACTION" rule will of course drive clicks the majority of clicks to the dealers home page. You can also say that many of these searches are existing customers that are just looking for a phone number or business hours.
But the residuals clicks elsewhere on the page are potentially dangerous to a dealer depending on what is there. They are without a doubt profitable to lead resellers who would like nothing more to divert this conversation of POD Score to imply it has no real value.
I have access to analytics for organic lead generation website pages that show a business listing for cars dealers on page one for their name. Without any special efforts, these pages get 100 visitors a month. The sites do not have a name like Edmunds.com, which would mean that Edmunds would get much higher clicks. Why would consumers click on them? They are not a TPIS consumer.
So, if you have a number of these brand attack or diversion listings on Page One, it adds up to a brand leak and a free ride to introduce any message that a third party would like to say to the dealer's customers.
This of course is just ONE local search optimization strategy and not the holygrail. You know that I am also a big fan of local search optimization and I think that Google Instant will play well for dealers who have locally optimized microsites.
POD Score is just one brand leak, there are others like a search on the dealers OEM brand and city where the dealership is located. Dealers need to start somewhere and nothing gets a dealers attention more than third parties using their name for their own purposes.
I will update www.podscore.org to reflect a new formula based on this forums great feedback.
I stand by my belief that POD Score will be a bridge to creating a broader awareness of the power Automotive SEO. The intuitive dealer, when presented with his POD Score will ask "How did these companies get on Page One for my name?".
When the answer is "SEO", a connector will have been created. The dealer's next question will help determine the value of the POD Score more than anything else.
I want to thank you for the charting which accurately reflects the decrease in click traffic based on position and I like the idea of a scaling factor. The issue of POD Score was intended to raise awareness to a problem of brand attacks from third parties that would love to continue siphoning leads from dealers based on their name.
Respected industry members on this forum and DrivingSales think that this focus will not affect car sales in any measurable way and thus the score has low real value. This argument reminds me of people last year saying that using Facebook will not result in any measurable increase of car sales.
If I was a dealer, I would not want hundreds of clicks a month going to places that represent competition if I can easily stop it. I would not want my disgruntled employees or competitors putting a billboard on Page One searches for my name and attacking with false claims. Anyone who has had a former employee/customer post on RipOffReport.com which gets on Page One can share will you just how many people see that site and comment.
The POD Score was intended to reflect the dealer's local optimization on their name and the opportunity for others to divert traffic away from the dealers website. The concern that all positions are not weighted evenly is valid and I love the collaboration that both website have offered.
As a result, I will modify the formula to weight SERP positioning as well. So if a dealer owns the first five listings for the name, instead of getting a POD Score of 50 it would be higher based on the above the fold argument. The new scaled formula will not be an exact representation of the click frequency chart because the purpose is more than clicks.
Joe, as you point out, Google Maps is a key resource for click traffic and when combined with PPC, the above the fold area is dominated with few organic listings without scrolling. However, to be fair to the POD Score intent, your graphic showing significant PPC stacked on top is not what you see when you type in a dealers name.
When typing in a dealers name into Google, often showing no or low PPC ads, more organics listings show. I understand your thought process about what consumers are doing when they search for a dealers name but I have data that shows you that your conclusion is not completely accurate. Your "TOP PICK INSTANT SATISFACTION" rule will of course drive clicks the majority of clicks to the dealers home page. You can also say that many of these searches are existing customers that are just looking for a phone number or business hours.
But the residuals clicks elsewhere on the page are potentially dangerous to a dealer depending on what is there. They are without a doubt profitable to lead resellers who would like nothing more to divert this conversation of POD Score to imply it has no real value.
I have access to analytics for organic lead generation website pages that show a business listing for cars dealers on page one for their name. Without any special efforts, these pages get 100 visitors a month. The sites do not have a name like Edmunds.com, which would mean that Edmunds would get much higher clicks. Why would consumers click on them? They are not a TPIS consumer.
So, if you have a number of these brand attack or diversion listings on Page One, it adds up to a brand leak and a free ride to introduce any message that a third party would like to say to the dealer's customers.
This of course is just ONE local search optimization strategy and not the holygrail. You know that I am also a big fan of local search optimization and I think that Google Instant will play well for dealers who have locally optimized microsites.
POD Score is just one brand leak, there are others like a search on the dealers OEM brand and city where the dealership is located. Dealers need to start somewhere and nothing gets a dealers attention more than third parties using their name for their own purposes.
I will update www.podscore.org to reflect a new formula based on this forums great feedback.
I stand by my belief that POD Score will be a bridge to creating a broader awareness of the power Automotive SEO. The intuitive dealer, when presented with his POD Score will ask "How did these companies get on Page One for my name?".
When the answer is "SEO", a connector will have been created. The dealer's next question will help determine the value of the POD Score more than anything else.
Following up on my POV on POD:
I agree with Ed that dealers are in the business of selling cars, and not getting high POD scores. Given the drop off in click thru the only time POD works very well is in the following situations:
a) You need to control all page one listings of your brand eg: "budd's bmw"
b) You find a sweet long tail phrase that your competition does not rank for and you now want to dominate it so all roads lead to your dealership.
This strategy is still only effective for above the fold domination for option (B) but is completely necessary for option (A)
I agree with Ed that dealers are in the business of selling cars, and not getting high POD scores. Given the drop off in click thru the only time POD works very well is in the following situations:
a) You need to control all page one listings of your brand eg: "budd's bmw"
b) You find a sweet long tail phrase that your competition does not rank for and you now want to dominate it so all roads lead to your dealership.
This strategy is still only effective for above the fold domination for option (B) but is completely necessary for option (A)
- Apr 26, 2009
- 89
- 17
- First Name
- Brian
@Dev
The intent of the POD SCore is focused on the dealership name and not for other search phrases where achieving all 10 listings is not meaningful.
So your comment: "a) You need to control all page one listings of your brand eg: "budd's bmw"
is what I was referring to.
The intent of the POD SCore is focused on the dealership name and not for other search phrases where achieving all 10 listings is not meaningful.
So your comment: "a) You need to control all page one listings of your brand eg: "budd's bmw"
is what I was referring to.
Joe, I think you're just encouraging your competition to invest all their energy in Social Media.
As for Larry's example, I went over to DrivingSales and read the full argument. If I assume Larry's metrics and math are correct, I think the takeaway is that the difference between complete page one domination and simply showing up in above the fold on a dealer-name search might amount to one, maybe two units... a year.
Then the question becomes, is there anything else (other than working diligently at increasing my POD score) that I could spend my time, energy and money on, that would help me sell more than one or two units in the same year's time? No one is in this business to have a great POD score, we're all in it to sell cars and make money.
How many more units will eliminating an Edmunds result in the 10th organic position help me sell?
Ed,
Page 1 domination is not about selling 1 or 2 more cars. It's about selling those cars without having to pay the lead sources that eat up most dealers search results........you don't see the increased volume until you dominate the more general search terms. This has everything to do with selling cars off firsthand leads instead of a lead generator getting that lead for free organically then selling it to the dealer they search better than.
We work on Google domination through writing our own content, adding pages, A/B testing metadata, video, Social Media (sorry Uncle Joe), press releases, blogposts, microsites.......getting the picture? daily and yeah we manage to sell some cars everyday as well.
Just this morning our DealerRater.com reviews finally posted to Google maps......would have never happened if we didn't pay attention to GPOM.
toyota littleton ma - Google Search
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I just want to point out that many PPC campaigns are regionally targeted. The only time you will see an accurate depiction of what the PPC landscape looks like is when you're sitting in that particular dealer's back yard.
The next question is how many dealers are actually engaged in PPC. But regardless, every dealer should be cognizant of what the search results look like for searches on his name.....which is the number one way people search for a dealer.
- Apr 7, 2009
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There is SEO synergy to building a GPOM campaign that improves both your local and organic efforts that is not reflected in the POD scores.
When you build out a well engineered microsite and SM portfolio there are many opportunities to create Local Citations to improve your Local authority and then you'll add links back to your main site with the mission to help Google understand what your home site is and what it does for Google users.
I see GPOM in a holistic light. If it's engineered correctly, all this GPOM work pays dividends that are impossible to rank, yet, every SEO knows is needed for above average SERP positions.
When you build out a well engineered microsite and SM portfolio there are many opportunities to create Local Citations to improve your Local authority and then you'll add links back to your main site with the mission to help Google understand what your home site is and what it does for Google users.
I see GPOM in a holistic light. If it's engineered correctly, all this GPOM work pays dividends that are impossible to rank, yet, every SEO knows is needed for above average SERP positions.
- Apr 7, 2009
- 4,806
- 2,270
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Well, well, well, speak of the devil! TuneyFish just posted an example of his microsite having long tail value: http://forum.dealerrefresh.com/f43/...mization-dealer-websites-534-5.html#post10208
He's doing well: 2011 Lexus GS 350 AWD - Finding Your GS 350 AWD Sitting At The Dock - Appealing but, I'd like to see more links back to the home site and add a butt load of local citations too.
He's doing well: 2011 Lexus GS 350 AWD - Finding Your GS 350 AWD Sitting At The Dock - Appealing but, I'd like to see more links back to the home site and add a butt load of local citations too.
Hey Craig,
The one or two car figure wasn't mine, it was Larry's. I believe the exact number from his calculations was 0.15 cars a month. I know you and your team do a great job online, and on much more than just SEO for your dealership name
. My point about a dealer's use of time is that if you don't have in-demand inventory, bought right, priced right, with great photos and compelling comments, driving any additional traffic to poorly merchandised cars on your website, AutoTrader.com or Cars.com is close to worthless.
Craig, in your case you absolutely have your "Paint" metrics and "Pixel" process down pat. But if you were at a dealer that had trouble getting even one photo on a car, much less video and only had VIN explosion comments, would you still be spending time on Social Media, press releases, blogposts, & microsites or would you be taking pictures and writing comments? My feeling is all of the above has value and can really help a dealer get to the next step - But only if they've mastered, as you have, the basics.
Last edited:
Hey Craig,
The one or two car figure wasn't mine, it was Larry's. I believe the exact number from his calculations was 0.15 cars a month. I know you and your team do a great job online, and on much more than just SEO for your dealership name
My point about a dealer's use of time is that if you don't have in-demand inventory, bought right, priced right, with great photos and compelling comments, driving any additional traffic to poorly merchandised cars on your website, AutoTrader.com or Cars.com is close to worthless.
Craig, in your case you absolutely have your "Paint" metrics and "Pixel" process down pat. But if you were at a dealer that had trouble getting even one photo on a car, much less video and only had VIN explosion comments, would you still be spending time on Social Media, press releases, blogposts, & microsites or would you be taking pictures and writing comments? My feeling is all of the above has value and can really help a dealer get to the next step - But only if they've mastered, as you have, the basics.
Plenty of stores have better or more pictures than us, probably even better descriptions.......we work a little on alot everyday so sometimes even our basics slip.
I agree that pictures and comments need to come first......I guess I just assume that if you're on here looking at ways to improve your digital process you should be taking good pictures and writing compelling descriptions. I forget how many dealerships don't understand that yet.
For those that are doing the basics, which I think are more than a couple of us here........forget what Larry's math is and start writing smart web copy and look to own as many searches as you can. (fairly sure Larry's company does exactly that?)
