Really debating running my own managed dealer website. Who's running their own dealer website or con

[john.quinn]

Joe,

I know that by far, I'm the SLOWEST guy on this forum. No doubt. I just read what I think was a debate between you and Sweece and I'm still not sure what language it was in...

For schmucks like me... who maybe manage a meager dealer budget, what are you saying?

I should forget about making my site more relevant for local shoppers? Or is that a one-time thing?

I can't believe you would actually be saying I should brand my dealership using broad PPC terms, right? Inventory-based PPC?

Please concisely spell it out for a non-genius like me... thanks!

 

[sweece]

Woa, Brother Sweece, slow down, you're all over the map!

Correct: SEO = Search Engine Optimization.
Not so Correct: SEO = Top of Google Results (what ever it takes)

Why is it "not so correct" to label SEO as being at the top of search results? Isn't that in itself search engine optimization? If we ignore the paid ads at the top (I don't have the paid image ads at the top like the SEO Book screenshot -- could just be a test from Google) then who's to say that everything below that doesn't require some form of optimization in order to show up? I misspoke by saying that an SEO should look after PPC, but all the other elements of the page are very important.

SEO as YOU know it might be dwindling, but that doesn't mean its dead. You've got links that say it is, I've got ones that say it isn't. Who is right?

PubCon 2011: Is SEO Dead (Again)??? | EverSpark Interactive

If shopping results require a feed, then who's to say that the SEO shouldn't be in charge of getting that feed taken care of so that the business is listed prominently on the SERPs? Wouldn't that be considered optimization for the search engines? In addition to that, there are still organic results below that, so it could be argued that the SEO has even more work than before.

I notice in the screenshot you posted for Audi results that there are highly optimized organic listings at the top -- maybe you should have chosen another screenshot to prove that organic is dead? I heard people saying the same stuff you're saying now when the local results came out -- now we have local search optimizers. Maybe in the future we'll have product search optimizers? Why can't an SEO encompass all of these things Joe?

Also, on that SEOmoz screenshot you posted -- I agree and I'm not arguing against that. But if what you say about organic listings is true, then social factors don't really matter, now do they? Social factors surely don't influence PPC ads or product listings, they affect organic elements in the same way that links do -- so how does that further validate your point?

Good discussion

 

[john.quinn]

I feel like Gilligan in the land of Professors....

But I inherently IGNORE the paid results. Is that because I am a marketer? Or is that a somewhat accepted principle?

With MILLIONS of results, I instinctively look at the URL of the first few organic SERP listings. Is that unusual? Coming from a relative noob like me, I would think that quite a few people take that approach. No? Yes?

 

[sweece]

I feel like Gilligan in the land of Professors....

But I inherently IGNORE the paid results. Is that because I am a marketer? Or is that a somewhat accepted principle?

With MILLIONS of results, I instinctively look at the URL of the first few organic SERP listings. Is that unusual? Coming from a relative noob like me, I would think that quite a few people take that approach. No? Yes?

Judging by my analytics reports, it's because you're a marketer

We get tons of people that click the paid ads for our dealer name search even though our organic listing is right below it. I have to tell people at the dealership not to click them because they don't know it costs us money.

 

[kcar]

Sweece,

I misspoke. Organic SEO is not dead... It's dying.

Organic SEOs big claim to fame was to pay a one time construction cost, and some occasional content, sit back and watch your site rank well.

Over the last 2 years, google has pushed organic lower and lower. Soon, it'll all be below the fold.

Evidence is everywhere. Go to google and search: HD Monitor

Get your PPC game revved up... It won't be long. The end is near.

I'm on par with what Joe is saying..

This is such a lengthy post to write down everything I want to write out.. But I'll post a few things. Organic SEO is dying, Google is doing more and more paid advertisements and taking spots away from free results.. At some point, I wonder if it will ever get to first page = paid results only, second page organic.. But Organic SEO is still very much alive, but it's not FREE and it's not "organic", it's more grey hat.. If you want to rank and have great SEO you'll need to shell out the $$ to do so. It's not free anymore, and there's so many competitors and other links, you have to buy your way to the top one way or another..

But on the other hand "Paid"/"Grey Hat" Organic SEO is still king. (I think that's a decent way to describe it).. But you have to know the way to do, and it's not all about having one website. There's much much more to it.

History.. Back when I ran a non-dealer website, I wanted to rank for a keyword and shelled out $2K to do so and landed on the first page. Which was fine back then I was making around $500/month back in revenue in ads. Today, if I wanted to rank for that same keyword, it would be a min of around $20K and you'd be praying to even get on page 1-3. (Mind you this is white/grey hat, I'm aware $20K in blackhat would do wonders, but it wouldn't last) Things have very much changed, SEO keeps evolving, websites keep appearing out, links keep building, algorithms keep changing.. I could go on, but that's part of it.

 

[kcar]

I feel like Gilligan in the land of Professors....

But I inherently IGNORE the paid results. Is that because I am a marketer? Or is that a somewhat accepted principle?

With MILLIONS of results, I instinctively look at the URL of the first few organic SERP listings. Is that unusual? Coming from a relative noob like me, I would think that quite a few people take that approach. No? Yes?

You're not alone. I don't trust PPC ads.. One thing is it's not a well-indexed and trusted site that ranks over time to be on page one, so I can't instantly vouch for quailty of the site or content. (Better to just follow the organic rankings instead) And marketing is part of it, they are paying for me to click on it, we'll I'd much rather a customer of mine to find me below than to click on my PPC and spend my $ budget up. So I do the same by skipping on down to find the organic result instead.

 

[joe.pistell]

Judging by my analytics reports, it's because you're a marketer

We get tons of people that click the paid ads for our dealer name search even though our organic listing is right below it. I have to tell people at the dealership not to click them because they don't know it costs us money.

JQ, Sweece & I totally agree.

Google users rarely go below the top 3 links (paid or not paid). What ever is on top is clicked. If the user dosent see what they want, they try to modify their search term (rather than look lower).

 

[joe.pistell]

... I inherently IGNORE the paid results. Is that because I am a marketer?

...With MILLIONS of results...

I was where you were, I never trusted the paid ads. But over the last 24 months, I find QUALITY results more and more on PPC ads. I've got to the point where I say to myself "If this guy is wiling to pay $2 for me to see his site, then he had best have his A game on".

Back in the day PPC ads were CHEAP and PPC ads were filled with JUNK. Really smart "black hat" marketers polluted PPC. They paid pennies for a visitor and that visitor would land on a useless page FILLED with ads that the visitor would click on. The "black hat" marketer collected ad money that was greater than the PPC ad money spent. It's called PPC arbitrage, and it's all but dead and gone.

 

[joe.pistell]

Why is it "not so correct" to label SEO as being at the top of search results? Isn't that in itself search engine optimization?

Good discussion

Wow Brother Sweece!

I can tell you LOVE the digital marketing opportunities out here AND if your the "digital marketing boss", you're right on many thoughts.

I'd like to highlight that the "digital marketing boss" is really a "General Contractor" (GC) on a construction site. The GC's job is to see the whole project and know that the plumber can't lay the foundation. The electrician can't roof. The GC needs specialists and so does the "digital marketing boss".

Generally speaking...

• An Organic SEO guru has no idea how to run a PPC campaign.
• A PPC specialist has no experiences in Local SEO.
• And few people on the planet understand what or how the Google products area connects to the Google Platform

For example, I trained my son Michael on how to manage a giant PPC campaign. He became so good at it he became google certified and was hired by Moore & Scarry. My son has ZERO skills in Organic SEO or local SEO. ZERO. NONE. ZIPPO. The tools and skills needed are worlds apart.

OTH, My son IS skilled in Google products, only because he and I tried for months to crack the wall that separates Google Products and Google PPC. That FAILED journey created: Is DealerTrack Chrome the Answer Google Has Been Looking For?

 

[MikeFitzpatrick]

The longtail strategy is still there but diect searches for a place or product, as Joe points out seems to be dying. The SEO guru has to evolve his game and become more "social".

I have to agree with Jeff on this one. If you are going to build and run your own dealership website it is still important to focus on a longtail strategy and site architecture. It will also help usability and PPC efficiency by doing so.

Even though Google is pushing businesses towards PPC, a well built site coupled with a well maintained Google Places page is still hugely important. Support your places page with citation sites and support your website with other relevant sites and Social network sites of your own. All of this of course requires someone at the dealer to be the GC as Joe points out.

I'd like to highlight that the "digital marketing boss" is really a "General Contractor" (GC) on a construction site. The GC's job is to see the whole project and know that the plumber can't lay the foundation. The electrician can't roof. The GC needs specialists and so does the "digital marketing boss".

My take is SEO isn't dead nor is it dying, it is being redefined just like the web as a whole.