Note to all,
Under no circumstances do I support LYING. Because I don't take the pollyanna view point, does it mean I support lying.

Let's look at "what a customer wants..." by comparing Tim Morris's visit to Golf Galaxy to buying a car.

do we go to Golf Galaxy and negotiate? What? no one going there even tries to negotiate? That'll be the day at a dealership.

Did you get a low trade-in price on your old clubs? Were you pissed when you found that you owed more on your old clubs than the trade-in offer? What? A straight deal? No upside down trade?

Did you get the color of your golf clubs that your wife wanted? What? They only come in one color?

Did they stock the golf club with that exciting options upgrade package that your pal has? What? There are only a few shaft flex options?

We make comparisions to other industries and think it'll translate to car sales.

If cars were CHEAP like golf clubs then dealers would stock every damn option/color group... just like Golf Galaxy does.

Joe

Joe,

To answer your question (which I assume was rhetorical), I have spent time outside of the car business. While I appreciate your honest comments, I respectfully disagree with your industry comparisons. I know that any marketing effort with a chance must be creative, compelling and convincing to attract buyers, but the car business has in many ways become proud of justifying the art of lying.

You may be sick and tired of the rap this industry gets and you may believe the old days are gone, but being a self-admitted marketing bastard responsible for cooking up the luring schemes contributes to the rap the industry gets and keeps the old days very much alive.

Last, but not least... no need to say sorry. We're all big kids and I really appreciate your points of view. I don't believe you meant any offense and even if you did, none taken.

To all,

So... what do consumers really want in a car buying experience?

I am not a marketing person. But I have bought a car before and I disagree with Joe. I am a twenty-something web consultant (which means I know everything, right?), so here's my take on it.

Auto sellers—like real estate agents—depend heavily on information-asymmetry; their value and advantage is that they (used to) have more information than the buyer. They know about all the cars and they know the bottom line of what the car is worth. The car that they are selling is no different from the car down the road, so the only value they provide is the information.

Shopping for cars is one of the most anxiety-producing experiences I've had. In Joe's words, I feel like they're using their "underhanded schemes" to try to lure me into buying anything. I will avoid sales people at all costs, I know I'm not alone in this.

As a result, I do most of my shopping and research online. I'll read reviews to figure out what I want to buy, and then search around to find a good deal. Since the sales person no longer provides any value in this transaction, I will buy it online if I can.

If I can't, then I'll walk into a dealership armed with all the information I need. If I can't get a fair price, I'll find someone that can give it to me. Note that I say "fair" price; I'm not looking for bottom dollar but more importantly best value, which includes the experience.

So, how do dealers appeal to a person like me?

1) convince me that I can trust you. This means throwing out all your schemes and trickery and being honest with me. This may even involve acknowledging that you're not willing to sell it cheaper than what I could get it elsewhere. So how do you compete?

2) Give me some other tangible value for free, like service. If I trust you, and you can give me something that no one else is offering, I am willing to pay more for it. You need to differentiate yourself from the other guy that's trying to con me on the same product.

Joe,

Sorry, but I need to get Shaun's back on this one. With the (possible) exception of the travel industry, I can't think of another business that advertises using loss leaders the same way we do in this business. Come on, Supermarkets? Sporting goods stores? When my supermarket chain advertises Ribeyes at $7.99/lb, I don't get the butcher coming out to tell me "those particular steaks have been sold, but follow me, we have some steaks just like them with some additional equipment!" Last week when I bought a new Driver (spring is coming, almost time to get back on the course!!!) at Golfsmith, I went looking specifically for a particular model I saw advertised in their Sunday paper insert. Guess what? Every single club was priced exactly as the ad said they would be ($299, a hundred bucks off, great deal!!!). Thinking like a consumer for a moment, I would be really pissed if I had gone in there and been told that the ad only applied to one particular stock number, I just missed the fine print.

These types of businesses don't use the "loss leader" in the same way. When they do use loss leaders, they do so in order to drive sales of other profitable products, i.e. eggs and milk may be advertised and sold at a loss in order to sell more ribeyes to those same shoppers. A certain golf club may be advertised at a loss in order to sell a dozen golf balls to every buyer as well. I think what Shaun is referring to is the shady business practice of "only one at this price" advertising.

Using the argument that "Consumers have all of the information tools needed to chart their own course, they can take control of their own fate" only makes it more shameful that some (read: almost all) dealers still try to use this type of trickery to seduce customers. And we wonder why they don't trust us. They have all the information available and we still insult them with our dishonest ads. Why don't we just be honest with our customers? I know, I know...because the dealer down the road is advertising pickups at $12,988...so we have to!!!

You can come up with better than that for your marketing efforts, Joe. We have all been familiar for quite a while now with your level of intelligence, you are an impressive guy with a lot of great ideas. Loss leader advertising is beneath you.

Now, back to Shaun's original question: what do consumers want in a car buying experience? I think they want an honest, open, transparent, non-confrontational process. If I were buying a car today, I would want the freedom to compare makes, models, and options in order to further educate myself. I would want a sales consultant who is familiar with the product and his/her own dealership, who can display legitimate reasons to do business there. Next, I would want a transparent pricing/trade discussion. By transparent I mean a process that is easy to understand, shows me the dealer has nothing to hide, and doesn't insult me by assuming I have not done my research. Next, I want an honest financing discussion, and as an educated consumer, I understand that the financial aspect all boils down to arithmetic, so please don't try to juggle numbers...otherwise I will feel like their is something hidden. After that, just give me a clean car with a full tank of gas.

Tim

I agree with Joe, the consumer is armed and full of information (no duh) but I recently shopped as a consumer. I was more educated than any of the sales people I talked to. They didn't know about the product well enough and especially how to combine options and equipment packages. Why?

Little money is left over for the car dealer = less quality sales people = poor buying experience. They were nice guys in my recent experience but not knowledgeable enough.

In my opinion a customer wants to make sure he gets a good deal and that a neighbor doesn't tell him what a fool he is because he could have gotten a better deal. Help them make a good decision, help them with questions and give them a fair deal. It wasn't about a couple hundred dollars for me. It was about the confidence of shopping with an advisor/ consultant to my automobile purchase.

Let's not kid ourselves here. Joe's comments are dead on. We are forced by the virtue of our the basics of our business to create hype (ala King of Cars) to create a circus-like level of excitement with customers. Newspaper ads for 1/2 off new cars, ultra-low purchase prices, payments so low no one could qualify for are all the same. They are created because the customer asks us to. That is the only way to get people into the door is the hope for gain. And it isn't only in our business. As I am looking for a big screen t.v., I find myself scouring Amazon, Cnet and other websites for info and prices on t.v.'s, and realize at some point, the price will drop to a point where the customer service (or product quality) will not be palatable at any price.

As honest as we are with our dealership, we still have customers who ask us to lie to them when they have offers from other dealers who are using rebates with incentivized rates, obscenely high trade values, etc. We refuse to.

If customers want the "game" to stop, they will stop rewarding the unscrupulous handful of dealers who lie to them and buy elsewhere. If, on the other hand, your advertising WORKS, and it is accurate (the disclosure is thorough, the vehicle is/was actually available, etc.) then we have done our job. Like Nike always said, "Just Do it!"

I am a marketing director and newbie in the auto industry (4years). Prior to this I have been self-employed for decades so I understand Darwin's rules of financial survival. I am the PERFECT outsider to address this question.

Shaun Raines writes:
>>>Can you say loss-leaders? Can you say trickery, manipulation, coercion?

Most car buyers are afraid that they will not get a "good deal" on their new car. Why? Most everything else they purchase in life has a set price, there is no negotiation, and they can usually identify that lowest set price with little difficulty if they do some research. When it comes to cars, they feel like they are out of their element (unlike overseas, Americans are not very experienced in "haggling/negotiating"), and are wary of car dealers. They don't know the "cost" of the car, and they know that the MSRP is certainly not the "set" price, so they wonder - "what is a fair price for this car?". They are also afraid to speak to or meet with a dealer as they feel they will subjected to high-pressure sales tactics. Ultimately - I believe the consumer wants to know that they are getting a fair deal with superior service that respects their needs and desires. Our challenge is in how to successfully (and consistently) meet those needs while being realistic about what actually works in the demanding auto sales environment. Kevin Frye/eCommerce Director/Jeff Wyler Automotive Family

is he gPod still available?

Is the gPod still available?

Isn't it nice how Jeff has created this site for us all to enjoy, learn from and prosper... and along comes this twirp named Tre... who steps in his own poop. Lovely!

Yeah definitely read who moved my cheese.

See, you can do video! Good job man it looked great. I'm goin to have to get the gPod!

Jeff!

U da Man!

That was great of you to post a video on the gPod. (and mention me and the deal)

Looking forward to the party

Nik Olsen
Training Specialist
Cardone Training Technologies, Inc.
800-368-5771

Looks like a powerful training tool, and a great way to put a twist on existing technology. Kudos Grant, and Jeff for sharing with the DR community.

On another note, I often question why some people (Tre) feel the need to waste time by posting irrelevant comments. Using a post comment to attack someone on a personal level? Please. Cmon Tre, Jeff is gangsta and you know it. I heard he did time in public school back in the day and used to roll with the ACC's (reference Malibu's Most Wanted):
Login to view embedded media View: http://www.youtube.com/v/_2MtRBR0aEw

Tre said: "You come off as a wannabe gangster - and I stress wannabe. Like a suburban kid who tries to be street - but you can tell it's just a front."

It is my experience that most of the guys who call themselves "Tre" are nerdy white guys named Trevor who saw the movie "Boyz N the Hood" and idolize its main character, "Tre Styles."

Tre, do everybody a favor and keep your dumbass comments to yourself, or go "cruise" somebody else's blog. Jeff's "persona" is part of the reason this blog is as popular as it has become.

Nice job on the first DR video y0! Yur Internets skillz be phat bro! Jenny Craig doesn't work too well - try Weight Watchers. I think they'll even thrown in an additional 32 meals if you sign-up after the next TV commercial.

Grant - fantastic idea!

Dude, that was incredible what you did with the Gpod.
Thank you as I want more sales people to benefit from the data loaded on that format as they will learn to find answers for themselves when they have problems they need to overcome.

Success is only obtained when a person can reach a goal or target regardless of the obstacles. And to the degree that someone can figure out how to overcome the obstacles for themselves they build confidence! You will help people more than they know!

Really respect your "doingness" and initiative and would like show my thanks by having you come out for my birthday party and book release on April 12th . I also want to get you a signed copy of my first of three books! gc

Jeff,

I've cruised your blog for a few months now - it's interesting. But I have to ask: What kind of persona were you trying to get across in your video?

You come off as a wannabe gangster - and I stress wannabe. Like a suburban kid who tries to be street - but you can tell it's just a front.

A chubby white guy (you) working at a car dealership doesn't give you much to work with, I understand, but perhaps if you acted genuine and not "ghetto-fab", I would have enjoyed it more.

If you want to be so "dope," lose about 30 pounds, get out of the cubicle with florescent lighting, get some clothes seen on somebody under 30 and just be real. Later.

Tre

I agree Jeff, great idea by Mr. Cardone! BTW... you did a good job with your first DealerRefresh vid too. Tag those things properly and watch them soar to high placement in the search engines (especially Google).

I thought it would be a real time example of what you guys are talking about. I would think that they would have been a little smarter about it as well. I can't figure out why they didn't end it early, sounds like someone was asleep at the wheel on that one. I have to give the consumer credit for working the system the way he did. Doesn't really matter how it ends now the damage is done and a reputation is ruined. Scares me enough not to use ebay just cause it could happen very easily with all the automation most of us use.

That thing is all over the forums too. Talk about a nightmare PR problem they're going to be facing no matter how this ends!

if the link doesn't work go to autoblog and check it out.

speaking of reputations this would be a pain to deal with
might be why I dislike the ebay auction format.

Dan, I have seen several attempts at sites just like this one but I have yet to see one to take off and be successful. I'm not surprised to see the site listed with mostly Honda buyers. Gotta love the Honda buyer!