Johnny,

Great question for the DealerRefresh audience. A few comments seem self promoting to me, but the one's from your true peers have some value.

Any method of getting customers to come in without answering their questions or providing the information they're looking for, forces you into traditional, manipulative, soon to die, consumer hated car sales tactics. If I ask you for a price and you give me bull$#!+ or offer me a cheesy gift to come in and talk price, your opportunity with me is over! Those dealers that continue to search for new ways of manipulating and controlling customers are simply putting off their demise.

You stated that you understand what your owner is trying to do. This is good, but it is essential for you to know that this is the wrong way.

"Get 'em in."
"Sell the appointment not the car."
"Your presence is your leverage."
"What will it take to get you to take it home today?"

Give me a break!

You must answer your customers questions, including price quotes. You'll lose more sales by not offering a price than by offering one and isn't it easier to find out early in the process that your prospect will not or can not buy than it is to find out later? What tone are you setting in the relationship with your prospect when you refuse to be straight forward and honest in the beginning?

The answer to your question is that any method that avoids taking care of your customer and treating them the way you would want to be treated is the wrong way. You're looking for ideas to get people in without giving them what they ask for. Is that the kind of experience you would want? Would these Jedi mind tricks work on you?

If you can't get your owner to leave 1987 and embrace what's going on in 2007, you many need to search for a store that truly sets you up to win. Crafting skills meant to manipulate and control customers will not benefit your future. Don't just think progressive, be progressive.

With encouragement and hope,

Shaun

We setup a pricing policy that encourages our customers to go out on the Internet; find they price they want to pay and bring it with them. We tell them we'll work with their price. The keywords here are 'work with.'

Its a way of addressing price without being cornered for a specific price. It gives the customer hope for gain and a sense of control.

The fact is, rarely does a customer bring in a price. Even if they do, our sales people are trained very well to switch the customer to a different vehicle. It's industry fact that approx 70% of people change their minds. They bring in a price on a car, but land on a suv. Now what good is the pricing info they brought in for the car?

We also explain our pricing policy keeps us from having to publish our low prices on our website for all our competitors to see. We do all we can to keep our costs down, blah, blah, blah.

You get the point...

Best Regards,
Wayne Anderson

First you need to step away from the dealership and make yourself a customer and this exercise will be very easy:

If you are worrying about money than it means one thing man, you dont have enough volume. So here is how to get it.

Step 1:
google search for Volvo in your metro area (i used san francisco)
these were the top 2 results and the text is from the description of their websites:
"New ...Royal Motor Sales of San Francisco Volvo sells new and used
Carlsen Volvo | A Palo Alto, San Francisco, Oakland and San Jose ...
Carlsen Volvo is a San Francisco Volvo dealer in Palo Alto, CA featuring a large inventory of new and used cars. We proudly serve as an Oakland Volvo dealer ..."

Lesson 1:
So Johnny we make damn sure we have the same and better keywords on our website day one. Also you need to get on Google Local with a Map and verification, it makes SEO organically much easier!

Step 2:
Search AutoTrader and Cars.com. Where are your cars and do you have 12+ photos for each? It's that simple, if you do have 12 photos for each piece of used inventory combined with a custom description you WILL receive at least 1 lead for each number of inventory on each lead provider website monthly!

Lesson 2:
see Step 1

Step 3:
How bad@ss is your website? Can I chat live with you when you are at your desk? can I see 12 photos and a custom description of each vehicle on the lot? is the damn site updated with specials!

Lesson 3:
Don fall victim to website laziness you need to eval-u-update your website at least every quarter!

Step 4:
Do you have a lead management tool? Get iMagicLab for $500/month and be done with it! set up an automated email process, pick up the phone at least 25 times a day and you will close 15-25% of all your leads

Lesson 4:
Dont be afraid of the phone! don be afraid of keith latman! don be afraid of paying 500 bills each commission check cause you WILL make it back, i pay out of my pocket for the tool and i dont even sell cars!

Step 5:
1+800 NUMBERS do you have them? If you dont get them they are cheap call callbright an setup an acocutn for $250/month with a couple cut numbers like 1-800-BUY-VOLVO or whatever and put them all over your advertising online and the website should ONLY show this number for sales.showroom. Then direct this number to your cell phone and start closing appointments!

Lesson 5:
Leads come from all places, make sure you get every phone call you can the first ring! the secretary will screw up the process if a salesman is not on the horn within 1 minute!

Good luck to ya Johnny hope my madness helps. I setup about 100 internet departments nationwide and saw the same thing everywhere man it is universal just follow these numbers:

- 12 photos + description = 1 lead for each inventory piece/month
- Call 25 leads a day form the last 60 days = 5 extra sales monthly
- Set appts with 50% of leads 30% show, sell 75% with test drives bam you have a 15-25 close ratio on leads!

Good Luck

Jake Wirth

Johnny,

Your comments are appreciated.

I developed the VP$ concept a few years ago as an annual direct mail piece and as part of my inquiry response program. My customers and prospects loved it. While my market was mostly upper-end, customer in lower market segments seemed to quickly grasp the concept.

After all, everyone, rich or poor, has a monthly budget. Additionally, VP$ opens the customer eyes to vehicles and trim levels that they may never thought of - vehicles that may be in the dealer's inventory. And VP$ displays manufacturer special offers along side the dealership's standard financing package.

Lastly, VP$ displays are an excellent reference. While they may not have all the specifics, they provide an immediate framework for communications without the gimmicks.

I invite you and any other sales personnel looking for a new way to reach their market to give us a try. How about a personalized (picture and a brief bio or sales message) direct mail program featuring the new model year?

Johnny,

Personally I am given freedom to do as I see needed with all of my internet leads. And in my practices I have found it much more affective to only give an MSRP price and here is my reason behind this.

With the saturation of VW and Audi in my area, a potential buyer will recieve 5 emails within the day with pricing, and truely there is nothing that one dealership can do that another one (pricing wise) can't. Giving a customer an MSRP price sets your bar to hopefully be at the top of the list, then gives you a chance for everyone else to place their bids, then come in as the lowest and last bidder in the end. Setting a pricing bar and continuing a relationship with the customer will gain personal trust and the worth that you are actaully giving them a better deal. Once a price is in their heads, we all know how hard it is to justifiy having to make it higher.

Also finding a point that allows them to shop everywhere else first, and let me be your last place to shop.

The Vehicle Payment Shopper on your web site Nolan, is a creative idea. The only issue I have with it is will it be confusing for the customer and it's not personal. It is very general like an auto-responder.

Thanks for the comments! Keep them coming please.

This past week when this "new" way for us to treat Internet Customers started I thought it may work. It seems it is not going to work. I know I just reported great appointments and higher gross but I believe it to be luck with people I would have reached on the phone anyhow. I am now stuck with a flood of emails of people wanting quotes or not even responding to me. Here is the most common response I have gotten from a customer when I resist giving him information and try to get an appointment.

"Can you provide with pricing 1st. This is the whole reason why I'm using the Internet department."

and

"Johnny,

Just give me your best quote and we can go from there.

Thanks,

Bruce"

I'm going crazy here. I don't think I can handle this much longer. Before I would look at these questions and attack with a good price. Now I just look at them like a deer in headlights. I cant move and I don't know what to do.

Thanks guys.

Frustrated ISM in San Diego,
Johnny Swartz

You’re talking about an industry-wide problem. I don’t propose to know the answer but I may have a partial to the issue how much information to provide shoppers. See: www.VehiclePaymentShopper.com

Look over our web site and let me know what you think.

Noland Harris
President/Publisher
Vehicle Payment $hopper LLC

One thing that worked for me very well was to tell the customer on the phone "I am sorry, but my store prohibits me from providing pricing information over the phone or Internet." The majority of the time, customers would come in, the rest of the time, I would have my new car director turn and give a quote. This was at a Honda store in the Dallas area, so it is competitive. The other tactic is to quote a vehicle you may not have and switch to a different car, or, quote the vehicle before dealer adds.

Hope that helps.

I work for a DMS provider; I'm also a consumer, so I've heard car dealers from two different perspectives on this issue. I have to tell you, it's astonishing to me how scared some salespeople are to say, "This is just a rough guess, but..."

The last time I bought a vehicle, the quote I got from the guy I ended up buying from was about $1,500 lower than the final sell price. That was about $1,000 closer than his nearest competitor. It was also immeasurably closer than the non-quotes I recieved from the dealerships I never visited.

This is strictly anecdotal, I don't know how many other buyers are like myself, but I personally didn't even visit the stores that wouldn't give me a quote. Buyers are smart. We *know* there's more to the deal than just the listed price. Give a little respect, get a little respect.

We have tried both approaches and have come to costly conclusion that giving a price is the better track with Internet leads. I use an 'as low as' quote with a minimum of vehicle information and an exact quote with vin#'s and stock #"s. It seems to work, over average combined gross is pennies under $2,000

Thanks guys. Lao Shi, You are right, good stuff.

Robert,

You are right, Volvo Requires us to answer within 2 hours with a personal response but we dont have to quote a price we just have to say if the car is available, Who we are, Confirm the car they want, our business hours and have a personal greeting. Thats it.

When People ask me for a quote I have been sending them the MSRP and telling them to call me if they have questions. Of course I have been hitting the phones twice as hard trying to get appointments because my emails are aimed now at getting them to call me and commiting them to appointments.

I must admit just like Lao Shi stated. Providing customer service, building a quick relationship, and keeping the lines tight without be pushy has worked for me. My appointments have gone up quite a bit already without using numbers and my gross is looking much better.

Much like Brians dilemmas, I work GM BuyPower leads where General Motors instructs us to reply with any type of price quote within I believe it is 24 to 48 hours.

These are my issues with the leads:
1. Many arrive with generalized info: Silverado 1500 LT 4wd
2. The consumer just built and priced out the vehicle on gm.com
3. Over 50% of the leads are invalid (GM should look into some new scouring pads!)

How do you respond with accurate pricing without knowing what equip is desired on the vehicle?

I've been testing different processes for these situations. To those I responded with 'best pricing' upfront, not one sale. Most never acknowledged they even received the quote.

This is a reply received after a week of email correspondence, and having two different appt times set on an exact vehicle of interest:

'Thanks jeff for all your hard work. Decided this is not the right time to buy, when we are in the market again we will contact you first.' What? But, but, but...

A few days later, my Autotrader rep informs me of my great customer service from another dealership. Huh? Yeah, during the PURCHASE and negotiations, the customer talked me up to them about the dealership and my customer service, not price as they got much less of a deal there.

Only as a last resort, will I ever give 'best pricing' without phone contact first at minimum.

Open to fellow dealerrefresher suggestions please!

As Lao stated, “keep the lines tight” Do not be pushy; be service orientated and helpful. Never give up….follow up.

"Your dealer is ignoring the reasons why the consumer is on the Internet (they are weary / leary of the traditional sales tactics) and only having his own conversation."

I think that quote sums up how things are in the majority of stores. That, and a lot of "seasoned" sales/management that have the reality of things blinded by their huge ego's.

Johnny,

If your Management Team does not embrace the internet process, and stand behind you 100%... WHY WOULD YOU STAY??? You said you work for a VOLVO store, It is a requirement of Volvo (Ford Motor Company) if a client requests a quote from Volvo's site you must give them one. What are you doing about this??? As you will find the question to Quote or Not the one that causes the most Friction between Dealers and ISMs.

What you are sending Internet customers is a reason to do business with your dealership over your competition? If you believe it's just about price then you should be listing your cars on an auction site like eBay discount sites like Craig’s list. If it's just price, everyone would be driving a base model, budget vehicle. It's about perceived value for dollars spent.

A successful ISM builds relationship and communicates product value. This means answering the questions to the best of your ability the client asks in their email.

The dealership confident of their formula: Service + reputation + price + value + brand + consistency over the years = successful business will not be ashamed to place inventory, price on the site and answer the questions the client has.

Always respond to all emails and clients as you would any client, never pre judge a client. You maybe right 7 times out of ten and you lose the 3.

Always respond to in a personal manner. You never ignore a customer who walks into your store; don’t ignore a customer in the inbox.

Contact the client right away. The longer you wait to respond to their initial inquiry, the greater the chance that they will get the information from another dealer. Develop the relationship early.

The Internet is a 24/7 operation 365 days a year. This gives your dealership a tremendous advantage if you set up the site and response programs well. Many dealers are still out to lunch, on ecommerce and how to use it effectively.

How many dealers have bought into the fancy flash sites at $4-6 thousand dollars a month that do very little to sell the client? They make the dealer feel like “Sumpom” and do little for the client except to reaffirm the dealership is as “tacky” as their website. The web site is a window on the dealer.

I have seen dealers who invest in a nice site and enjoy greater monthly sales for $8 to 1200.00 a month. That is a savings of $50-60,000 a year. The sites that rely on the supermarket tabloid approach with lots of pizzazz and no substance are a waste of money. Most customers do not want this; they want honest answers, good service, reliability, and to believe they are not going to get raked over the coals.

Almost 50% of car shoppers begin their search for their new vehicle on the Internet. Today the Internet is in 90 % of American homes many with broadband connection.

Answer their Email questions, honestly and to the point. If you lead them on or give them false hopes you are not being honest. This will prove you’re interested in earning their business.

Always follow up with emails and phone calls, as my grandfather and father always told me when we fished together; “keep the lines tight” Do not be pushy; be service orientated and helpful. Never give up….follow up.

AutoRevenue vs. OnStation? Any thoughts. Anyone used AutoRevenue and then switched to Cobalt's OnStation? Which gave you better results?

It must be tough. We offer our lowest, no haggle price upfront. Some want to dance with the numbers and many don’t. Give them no price, and that’s even more work. Maybe build value in the Dealership, and or Service Department there. I agree, gas cards, fruit baskets, and free key chains are a bit tacky. I have found that price is important to a shopper, but not the most important. Trust in the Dealer, and reputation goes a long way. Response time is the key to the internet lead. If you are waiting an hour to follow up, that’s too long and allowing others to give that client prices. The best bet is guiding them to your web site, to help them buy in to your Company. Remember; sell the appointment not the car. If you get that must have a price person, have a Sales Associate give them a call. Then you follow up and book the appointment. Good luck.

We all know customers are being conditioned to ask for a price, and the "best price". And they have every right to ask - it is an important piece of information in the buying process. However, most customers do not buy the car they originally set out to purchase. There are five million reasons for this, and we only hear a small percentage of the 3%ish who actually submit Internet inquiries (or so the statistics say). There are ways to position your approach to play off this fact.

Fortunately for most Internet Managers/BDC personnel, the majority of dealers are still holding onto the old ways - struggling to maintain control of the customer. We are in a revolutionary time in the auto industry. Call it the "Wild West" where anyone can be a gunslinger. Since Henry Ford made mass automobile manufacturing possible dealerships were successful based on two things: the brand they carried and location....anything else was a plus. Today, those factors haven't changed a whole lot, but they are going to. Customers want a fair price (not your best price), but what they really want is a fantastic experience....look at MINI and Scion, and soon SMART.

Before I get too far into my philosophizing, let me get back on the subject. There are ways to avoid a price quote with most customers: get them on the phone with a strong communicator who has a call guide or have the best value added program/reputation blasting in every media. The latter is very expensive by the way. If you don't have those two things going for you, then you're going to have to give the customer what he/she is asking for: a price. It doesn't have to be your best price, but it should be fair.

Johnny,

If "giving up" is not an option...

I have found that most owners who feel this way have based their decisions on antiquated business practices that were all the rage 5 years ago, according to the process snake oil salesman that sold them a bottle of the latest and greatest at the time.

The good news here is that your owner learned this from someone... so... he can learn something new.

Send an email to the folks that you feel are the best and brightest in the industry with verifiable, published (e-100) results and ask for what seems to be their best practices and processes that drive customers to their dealerships.

I bet you will find that they all share at least one practice - they give the customer what they ask for without all the gameplay.

Gather this info from the best of the best and share it with your owner in a discreet, little by little, article by article kind of way...

My guess is that when he sees what the best and brightest are doing, he won't want to be left behind.

Better yet, after he "gathers" all this information and comes to you with his ideas... well, you get the picture.

If this does not work, then, a change of scenery might do you good.

Just my 2 cents.

Best regards,

Steve

Your Right Brian, this is a tough issue and very frustrating. I have thought of moving on but I don't like to just give up.

The gimmicks like free gas card and such I have thought of. I guess I have to give something away to give them incentive to come in. Unless there is a better way to present yourself via email that may attract customers like a magazine ad approach? I don't know. I figure If I can get them on the phone of course that will help 10 fold.

You said it Brian:

"Your dealer is ignoring the reasons why the consumer is on the Internet (they are weary / leary of the traditional sales tactics) and only having his own conversation."

So frustrating.

There are two conversations going on in any buyer + seller conversation.

The buyer's conversation + the seller's conversation.

Your dealer is ignoring the reasons why the consumer is on the Internet (they are weary / leary of the traditional sales tactics) and only having his own conversation.

He is bringing the traditional sales approach (which is what drove consumers to the Internet in the first place) to the Internet.

So that is the bad news. The good news is you're not the only one doing this. Just don't expect any consumers to buy from you again once you pull it off.

Go with programs like complimentary trade equity analyses, gift bags for coming in, free trade in safety inspection, wash + vac. Consider a program of buying the trade whether they buy the new car from you or not.

You also mentioned $1,200-$2,000 gross profit losses being typical. I've been doing this a long time. Whenever I hear that, all I can think is someone's sales conversation is sooooo far out of sync with the consumer's conversation (better experience) that they feel they have to "buy" the business. Dealers do not have the gross profit to do it - as your case shows.

Maybe it is not your case, but anywhere I've found a dealer buying the business, I also find a horrific customer satisfaction issue. Even with unbelievable deals, consumers still don't believe dealers because their buying conversation hasn't been heard.

Perhaps when your owner's pain starts getting high enough he'll be brave enough to try a new approach. I do know that most dealers still relying on his approach plus traditional media to create selling opportunities are mostly hearing crickets in the showroom these days.

If it were me, I'd assess whether I could change the system or go somewhere where you can make what you are worth. I just don't believe in false paradigms (it has to be this way, what can I do) that leave you pushing jello up a hill. It is just too messy and ineffective. Ineffective, frustrating and unprofitable for you and your dealership.

You can try using an incentive such as a free gas card for coming in and test driving the vehicle. This way you get then through the door to test drive the vehicle and have the opportunity to sell them something. You can also encourage them to gather their quotes and then come in to you last for the best price. This way they have done their shopping and can feel comfortable talking numbers once they actually get there.

I am having nearly the exact same issue. I will definitely be interested to hear comments.

In response to Ashley Antonio's post, I will be at the J. D. Power Automotive Internet Roundtable event at the Red Rock resort in Las Vegas this week and am looking forward to seeing her, along with any other friends, associates and colleagues at the conference.

Ralph Paglia
505-301-6369
[email protected]
www.ralphrpaglia.com