Kudos to you Keith... Gilbert will be a great addition to the iCar team! Congrats Gilbert! Kevin Frye/eCommerce Director/Jeff Wyler Automotive Family

Congratulations to Gilbert Chavez - I look forward to working with him!

Looks like Dealerskins is joining the game of free seminars now to:

I would like to comment on:
"be sure to buy your URL as a keyword. I guess this was note worthy, though about 99.9% of the time if someone types your URL into Google or Yahoo, your website better dam site be #1 in the natural listings."
Jeff, I see your point and you are correct your URL should be #1 in the natural listings but a good number of users if not majority simply do not make a distinction between "natural" or organic and paid listings.
Organic listings do not start on Google until position 4 in most cases and Yahoo it is the 5th position.
We don't directly bid on other site's URLs but when the URL is a combination of keywords that we do bid on our ad will show at the top and we get a surprising number of clicks and leads this way.

I can pull some actual statistics but trust me compared to loosing a customer to your competitor the 5 or 10 cents Google will charge you per click to place an ad for your own URL is well worth the price.

Alex

I had attended the Breakfast for Champs in Detroit 1 month ago and yes of course " Hugh" was there and we were all wound up on the STAR BUCKS. Yes Hugh was awesome. It was very nice to see the facts / statistics to help us with where our sales had mainly went to " USED". Relying on your templates too much can scare a customer away in a hear beat! I modify mine and answer all of the prospects questions. I have done very well with quoting prices on the first email I send to them. What they inquire on along with the other trim levels and throw in a used one similar if not the same.

It was very nice to actually look at the percentages that were given during the seminar:
Take a customer and treat them like a Gamble~
Your chances of closing a:
Walk in - 9-10%
Phone up - 50%
Repeat / Referral - 60-70%
Internet - 90%

Seeing those percentages I would be all over the Internet ( That is right I all ready am) and I do well at it.

Thank you Jeff for posting this ~

Nice points Jeff, thanks for sharing them. I think your closing might be the best advice for each of us - take advantage of all of these opportunities for free training/seminars and networking events. I do my best to sign up for any of these types of events in my area, and it allows me to not only learn new things in the eCommerce arena, but also to keep on top of my local market. Cheers - Kevin Frye/eCommerce Director/Jeff Wyler Automotive Family

Of course, the only honest way to appraise and evaluate the vehicle is for the customer to bring the vehicle in.

Is it easier to begin the dialogue and relationship on the customer's present car? Do you find it easier to set appointments on a customer's trade?

I agree that these seminars are a great forum for networking and also allows one to gain insight.

You hit a great point on the pre-owned concept; a wise mentor told me years ago always give the consumer an option. This applies to all sales. This way if the new is not in their comfort zone price wise there is an option. If nothing else you will begin a dialogue, which is the initial goal in the relationship.

This also is in the same mode of "Word Tracking"

I have found the bulk of third party leads are duplicates of leads that originally come in from the OEM. I always get the 3rd party lead providers to agree that we do not pay for "DUPES" which includes OEM leads. At the end of each month we audit the leads and submit the "DUPES" for credit, at $15.00 -20.00 per lead this can add up. One can find they are paying 2-3 times for the same lead, which means thousands of dollars over the year. One of the great things about technology as you can "TRACK" information easier.

More and more I find people will set up and email when they are on a research project and then jettison this after the project. I have found this to be true as when I do newsletters during the year to keep my database up to date, the email bounces back and I call them. Most will say that they did not want to receive junk mail, which happened to them before. We can thank the BZ Results and others that spam the daylights out of the customers with things they never asked for.

This is a major issue with www.onstation.com as well as they both of these companies provide process that load up the client with unwanted information in a cold, "cookie cutter template" fashion that leaves the client unimpressed.

The funny thing is some of these companies are charging $5,000.00 plus a month. If people ever broke down the costs of the components of these programs they would see they are making huge profits. Selling a tool that has a cost of $500 for 5K a month times however many dealers they have is a huge number.

You are correct Jeff, the personalization of the process is the key to success and the customer looking for this type of experience will go to the sites that will provide this. The dealer that is a volume dealer only interested in "moving metal" in a volume model will be happy with these "cookie cutter" options, and they will continue to complain about the low margins of the business.

Another example is providing price when a client asks for a price. Explain that this is the price of this model and that there maybe rebates and incentives that may also apply, please, lets schedule an appointment to go over the options that are available to you. This is a great process to develop the relationship and setting the appointment. Again, this only works for dealers that embrace the personalized approach rather then the "Cookie Cutter" approach. I refer to these dealers as "Boutique Dealers" and there are many examples of them.

Also the profit margins are better.

Dean Evans is a class act. Congratulations Dean!

Yes he is now working at dealer.com my website provider and it is also posted over at kainautomotive.com

Hillary just named Dean as her running mate for Vice President. It has not been officially announced. Dean will start campaigning with the former first lady next month.

I heard that Dean Evans just made the move to Dealer.com. Has anyone else heard this?

I agree, Dean appears to be laying low for now.
He hasn't returned by emails yet either.
I would love to hire him back to AutoFusion Inc.
We are launching some really cool new products, and we need a VP of marketing to help us tell the world that they exist.

--Roy
Roy van Beaumont
CEO - AutoFusion (Jan 1998 - Apr 2000) & (Apr 2006 + )

Angela,

Can you please use English not texting type.
Thanks

Very interesting topic here. I can not justify using this type of advertising, because the way I see everyone look for a phone number is typing the info into a search engine. The company’s website will pick it up most of the time. And since all of us have a website, I can not justify using online phone books. I do believe that the paper phone books are excellent roi however.

Also, has anyone used the spanish phone book? I was approached earlier this year to get in on the first release in Northwest Indiana and Chicagoland.

U know wut u have no idea about advertisement and how to invest money,,,,,,,,, Wurever Superpages.com receives 17 million searches per day and if someone is spending 300$ look at the return and when u talk about something or discuss something Try to get alot of info before u talk about it And Try to mention both the advantages and the disadvantages of it to be fair enough coz if we are talking about google or any search engine so we have to say that we have window shoppers there SOOOO THE PPC paying per will be wasting money… AND SEO is not guaranteed at all … FOR UR INFO no one goes to any yellowpages just to watch it THEY ARE REAL buyers .. I know somebody is advertising on superpages for 4 years on arrow .

Chris,
I can see you're an out of the box thinker. Here’s some "ol' wize man" advice from another out-of-the-box thinker that's made a lot of mistakes along the way...

Joe Rule#1. Just because it's a good idea, doesn’t mean it'll work.
Always distance yourself from the idea and let it stand on its own.

Joe Rule#2. OUR IDEAS are NOT ORIGINAL.
Look for examples of others that have had your idea and look for hallmarks of their success (your post nails this one). FYI: Truly original ideas are rare beyond words. They come from fellas so far out that they have a hard time communicating with us all.

Joe Rule#3. Put the idea away and let it marinate.
If it's still talking to you 6 months later, then go after it. (I've got Over30MPG.com that's just dying to be worked on... grrrr)

Hope this helps,
Joe

Chris,
My Notes to you:
You can't just list your personal number in the YP without it being a designated business number.

I use to sell YP and I could go on and on about why you should not do it. I have a FAR BETTER IDEA FOR YOU.

You've earmarked $4,000 for YP spending p/year.
Hire yourself a local fellow that can throw up a WordPress Blog for you. Cost: $300 to $600. You'll need it hosted: $200 p/yr, you'll need to be trained on how to post inventory to it (offer your geek pal $100 to be avail to you by phone at any time you need it).

OK, now your almost ready to fly, Do your homework on what vehicles are HOT on the net and look thru your inventory for matches. Start posting inventory into your blog like a mad man and make it personal. EXAMPLE: http://usedcarqueen.com/ (my wifes blog).

While you're waiting for your blog to fill and the search engines to index you, you have $3,400 in unspent monies to put to work (budget: $4,200 Spent so far: $800).

Spend money on PPC (Pay Per Click) advertising on Google and Yahoo.

Be sure to get a buy-in from management on your efforts (jealous sales reps will whine, whine, whine and make management miserable). While soliciting management, ask that they share 50% of the costs in the project (produce receipts), payable AFTER it's up and running.

Now, your burning with NitroMethane! (aka: kik'n a**)
Joe
p.s. Have your rent-a-geek train you on how to post inventoy to Craigs list. Also ask him for a WordPress mod to allow you to easily post inventory to Craigs list.

Personally I'd rather spend $200 to $350 a month paying for a PERSONAL YELLOW PAGE AD in the phone book under AUTOMOTIVE DEALERS, NEW/USED. I'm sure the payoff would be on the plus side, especially if I offered a bonus for referrals.

I've actually seriously considered the idea and don't know of any salesperson that is promoting themselves in the Yellow Pages?

The traditional YP works still, and everyone leafs through them.

What's your feedback on such an idea?

Chris

Hello,

I did some research on YP. Here it is. Please share some feedback

1. Major Yellow Paper (“YP) Companies
1.1. List of YP in the US
1.1.1. AT&T Advertising & Publishing (Bell South, YellowPages.com)
1.1.2. Idearc Media (Verizon)
1.1.3. R.H, Donnelley (“RHD”)
1.1.4. Yellow Book
1.1.5. Local Insight Media
1.1.6. White Directory Publishers (subsidiary of Hearst Group)
1.1.7. Windstream Yellow Pages
1.1.8. Valley Yellow Pages
1.1.9. User-Friendly Phone Book
1.1.10. DataNational
1.1.11. Phone Directories Co
1.1.12. Names and Numbers
1.1.13. ypOne Publishing
1.1.14. United Yellow Pages
1.1.15. Ambassador Media Group
1.1.16. Metro Directories
1.1.17. Hagadone Directories
1.1.18. SureWest Directories
1.1.19. Pinnacle Publishing
1.1.20. Gannett Directories
1.1.21. Best Publications
1.1.22. Impact Directories
1.1.23. Area Wide Directory Co
1.1.24. Ad-Ventures Publishing
1.1.25. LocalTel
1.1.26. Your Town Publishing Solutions
1.1.27. Echo Pages
1.1.28. U.S. Hispanic Yellow Pages Market Overview
1.1.29. Seccion Amarilla USA
1.1.30. Hispanic Yellow Pages of America
1.1.31. Hispanic Yellow Pages Network
1.2. Top four YPs
(86% of market share yptalk.com is for sale )
1.2.1. AT&T Advertising & Publishing
1.2.2. Verizon
1.2.3. RHD
1.2.4. Yellow Books
1.4. Yellow Pages Association’s Largest Referrals by Number
1.4.1. Restaurant
1.4.2. Physician & Surgeons
1.4.3. Automobile parts & used
1.4.4. Automobile Repairing & Service
1.4.5. Pizza
1.4.6. Automatic Dealers- News & Used
1.4.7. Attorneys/ Lawyers
1.4.8. Dentists
1.4.9. Plumbing
1.4.10. Beauty Salons
1.4.11. Real Estate (number 34)
1.5. Key Facts
1.5.1. Usage of YP decreased from 15.1 bn to 13.4bn references during 2002-2006 according to the YPA Industry Usage Study.
1.5.1.1. Increased Internet search and non English speaking demographics it’s cause
1.5.2. There are estimated about 7,600 independent YP publishers. The number of publishers is expected to decline to competitiveness of the market and active M&A (according to Kelsey)
1.5.3. Margins tend to be lower on the internet YP than print YP (according to RHD) as they try to increase internet ad usage.
1.5.4. Kelsey Group says that internet YP usage has increased from 7%-14% during 2003-2007. Furthermore, Kelsey Group expects internet YP to grow 24% each year from 2007-2012.
1.5.5. Advertisers prefer directory advertising due to its relatively low cost, broad demographics and geographic distribution and high consumer usage rates .
1.6. Yellow Paper News
1.6.1. RHD’s yellow pages ad counts dropped 9% in January ’08 in Las Vegas and Orlando. Also, yellow papers are discouraging businesses’ making ads in color to cut costs. Additional ad space (change of font & number of columns) is also being given for incumbent businesses that spend a bit more on the ad (Deutshce Bank 3/9/08 Company Alert)
1.6.2. From “The Future of Yellow Pages,” profit of YP expected due to discounting of ad price. A survey by Kelsey Group shows that SMBs use print yellow pages 43% less. The number of print yellow pages seems stable but the frequency that they use is decreasing.

If anyone knows how much average dealerships spend on yellow paper ads that would be great

Tim Morris wrote....

"Here is where your argument falls short, and is most likely the reason you are no longer employed by yellowpages.com. You can't sell this type of advertising without being able to justify the investment."

IMHO....you can NEVER justify the investment when it comes to advertising....even though YPC has the highest ROI in the business....

I honestly began to loathe the job....they try to convince their employees during training that its not telemarketing....but it is....it is the most refined form of telemarketing out there....I couldn't stand being hung up on dozens of times a day after saying "yellow pages" or after barely getting a word out of your mouth....

I tried to sell to dealerships a few times....but the GMs think they know everything and aren't willing to listen to you....that got old quick....

Sorry I was abrasive....its just a little frustrating when you look at the thousands upon thousands of dollars that a dealership spends on wasted advertising every month and wont bother to spend a minute fraction of that on YPC when I know that it actually will turn a profit....not to mention that a lot of the money that dealerships spend on advertising comes directly from the manufacturer....

I am going back into the car business....

How to win the Yellow Pages game (aka less is more)

For 18 months I worked at Verizon as a Yell Page rep (employee of the Month 2 times).

How I limit my spending:
White page listings, bold with yellow highlighting, add webaddress.
Yellow pages: Retain best headings, trim any non-core headings. Commit to Alphebetical listings only. Add bold, add one line with web address.
Franchised dealers dbl. ck to be listed in "TradeMark Listings" (ask for help if needed).
DONE.
(prepare yourself for your YP reps crying and gnashing of teeth)

For the last 4 years I have built web sites for dealers, then got recruited to be an in house Internet Director. I have listened to 100's and 100's of hours of phone calls (10 dedicated 800#'s) AND watched the trends over 3 years. Here are the FACTS according to Joe.

3 years ago, phone traffic from web site was nearly 100% sales, a few service calls here and there.

IN 2007, nearly 35% of incoming phone traffic (from web site) was service and parts requests. By reviewing your traffic records on your sites back end, you'll see the vast majority of SERP visitors* are trying to find your name directly (*SERP = Search Engine Return Page). THIS IS A PHONE BOOK LIKE DIRECTORY REQUEST.

Google has gotten so good at suppling phone numbers AND MAPS that it's now the "directory of choice". See just how awesome goolgle's become, let's look for a cigar store near my zipcode. Google Search A friggin Cigar Store!

Let's talk penetration of this google directory application. Not everyone gets it yet. SO this means it will become more and more pervasive as time moves forward.

Summary.
Move ca$h away from tra$h and amp up your future.

So aren't sales calls important as well...say as for customer service to your current clientele? And can't delareships make great profits with their service? So why no publish a number where they can call for service or sales? I think there is opportunity there. I find it.

And as for what type of media to use, I agree that each dealership has to wiegh the balance. But I always felt that after all my marketing is set and someone wants to call to set up a test drive or get information on a car, the one place they ahve my number is on Yellow Pages. I still do the old version and I am trying the new version. It is starting to take off. I have pulled back in otehr areas like newspaper, but keep billboards and radio as art of my mix. I am in CA were there are dealership malls every where so lcoally I must be competitive.

Does anyone have corproate co-ops or sponsorships? Mine is minimal for YP but wondering if this helps.

Stephen,

In theory, I agree with you. I am inclined to believe that most dealers will recoup their investment in a yellowpages.com ad. I would agree that the ad will generate enough phone calls/walk ins to sell a unit or two, and generate some LOF business in the service department, maybe sell a couple of parts. In theory.

Here is where your argument falls short, and is most likely the reason you are no longer employed by yellowpages.com. You can't sell this type of advertising without being able to justify the investment. And, unfortunately for you, the old "even if you sell just 1 or 2 cars, you make your money back" gimmick just doesn't cut it these days. If dealers bought every advertisement pitched to them that way, most would be out of business. Dealers don't like to hear that pitch, the same way that venture capitalists hate hearing "all we need to do is capture 1 percent of the market to be profitable." It's not that easy!!!

And for you to come on this board and attack the readership who had no luck with your product is just lame. Fact is, most dealers and managers in this business are fairly insightful when it comes to advertising their product and dealership.

If your math wasn't so fuzzy, and your attitude wasn't so abrasive, maybe more dealers would have bought ads from you and you could have stayed out of the unemployment line. "lol"