Chris-
without a signed certification form the dealer cannot submit for reimbursement. the form is called a Summary of Sale and Certification form. If you signed it, you are certifying under penalty for fraud that you meet all the criteria for the program. You may want to bring that up to your lawyer. The dealer is not required to verify all docs are compliant, they are only required to submit your documents to the govt for review and hopefully approval. Not only is the dealer within their right to cancel or reverse your sale, they are REQUIRED to report any and all fraud. I would talk to the dealer and forward the entire law, which is available on the cars website, to your attorney.

"Finally Got Mine" is absultely spot-on, as is Lori Finney. But now it's a question of "time." Dealers have until 8:00PM Eastern tonight to submit valid claims. If the dealership spotted and lapse in registration and could not submit the original voucher, and the issue cannot be corrected in the next couple of hours, then there's little hope a voucher will be granted.

Chris - I used the CARS program to purchase a new car. I'm not a dealer, but I agree with everything the dealers have said here. You must submit all of the paperwork and it must meet the requirements OR you DO NOT qualify.

You may be able to clear this this up with a call to your DMV. The dealer CAN'T do this for you. I had my 2007 & 2009 registration card, but not my 2008 card. I had read all of the CARS info and knew it would be a problem when a dealer submitted the paperwork. I proactively called the DMV [at the state level] and they were more than happed to fax me a letter stating that my registration was in effort for the full time with no lapses. Problem solved - both for the dealer and for myself.

You are responsible for ensuring the paperwork is correct. If you are sure there was no lapse (I was positive of it) YOU can probably correct this with a phone call and make both yourself and the dealer very happy.

I did not sign any certification. The dealer looked at all of my original paperwork and said everything was fine. They then later said they thoguht there was a problem since my last registration showed it started less than 2 years before the expiration date (registrations are 2 years here). I have a cancelled check showing I paid DMV well before expiration of the prior but that is still about 6 months before the "start date" they printed on the new one. The dealer said that this would cause CFC denial. I do not know why the discrepancy but also don't know why this was brought up after they closed the deal and had me drive away. Again, I am NOT saying the dealers are assholes (just using the term from a post above), just that they said everything was fine, and that if any issue arose that I would absolutley not be involved - then changed their story. I do want things to work out and hope this is all in error. If not, as I said above, I will try to seek a mutually acceptable solution. In the event the car does go back, I will do everything in my power to make sure there are no scratches, dings or stains (also from a post above).

What customers are not realizing is they are in fact signing paperwork that states that they have provided correct paperwork and they qualify for the program. It is not the dealers responsibilty alone to determine that. All consumers should have been asked to signed a certification sheet provided by the cars programs (not made up the dealer) when the deal is done. This paperwork states you agree UNDER PENALTY OF LAW that you have met the qualifications including the 12 months of insurance and registration. If the consumer signs this paperwork and doesn't have the 12 months of registration how is that the dealers fault?
The dealer REALLY would prefer to have the deal done and each consumer driving the new cars but if they can not get the money because of a fact that they did not know when the deal was done then the consumer must take responsiblity for the paperwork they signed.
Did you signed the deal certification from the CARS system? If so, you stated that you had 12 months insurance and registration. If you didn't and it was not on the paperwork you provided how was the dealer to know...?

I am glad the government is out of the car business tomorrow, I wonder what kind of losses the dealers will be left with when this is all over. I am sure everybody on the car business side has noticed how all the customers feel the dealers are the assholes in all this, when most of the problems are on the government end or from lack of truthfulness from customers.

Customers need to realize the dealer is on their side in all of this, if there is any way possible to keep them in the car they will bend over backwards to make it happen. I can assure you they don't want a new car back with miles on it, scratches, dings, or stains.

btw- when I say "what he heard" I mean what he heard from me as to the facts, not that he is basing his opinion on "what he heard" elsewhere as to the law.

Thanks! I did call an attorney just to see where I stand. He said that since I had a signed contract, and loan contract, with no mention of contingency and I had signed no paper saying I was guaranteeing that I was eligible it was very bad on the dealership's part (for them) to make the deal, and sign all paperwork. And since there is a registration fee on there he said they could not refuse to register it. He did say that to be sure he wanted to see the paperwork but that based on what he heard, in CT the car is mine if I choose to force the issue. The documents I submitted were all original and the fact that they missed what the DMV claims is the renewal date is their ultimate responsibility (because they went ahead and finalized the deal, including delivery). I do have a cancelled check showing renewal on time but, per the dealership, that does not count - only what is on the registration and what DMV says. That said, I am not trying to be a jerk about this. If I really did have a laps (still TBD) I think the right thing to do would be to work out a deal in which it is fair for all parties, as opposed to "punishing" the dealership for less than quality practices. Maybe that the $4,500 minus the blue book value of my trade and then split that with them? Justlooking to find a way we can all live with this mess.

Long story short, if the dealer is saying that you are not eligible because of a lapse in registration, it means that you need to either return the vehicle or reimburse the dealer for the voucher amount. If you are not elibible for the program, then the dealer has every legal right to pursue you for the return of the vehicle or for reimbursement. All that "other" stuff is irrelevant.

I recently traded in a "clunker" for a new car. The CT Dealership told me what I needed (title, past two registrations, insurance card and letter from Agent stating coverage last year). I supplied these. We completed paperwork including a contract , loan, and temp. registration. (they said could not print final reg. as system was down). I asked if everyting was in order. They say "yes, and if we find any issues that will be our problem. Once you drive off we are done". I signed over my title too. I then drove home with the car. They call the next day and say that there was laps in my registration that they just noticed. I do not recall any but they say DMV insists and they want the car back. There was no conditional clause in the contract and just states $4500 trade in. Can they do this? They are saying that they can do this and will refuse to now register the car (lucky for them their system was down). I do have the temp but only good for 2 weeks. Doesn't issuing the temp imply they are bound to put through a "real" registration? Would that be a breach of contract? Also, if my registration did, in fact, have a laps (not sure how but anything is possible) does that play into things even if there was no condition stated or signed on the contract, nor “Summary of Sale and cerification” form signed? Lastly, if I do have to give the car back am I liable for mileage driven (when I left the dealership I went on a weekend vacation driving 400 miles each way!! I wanted to get used to the car as well as break it in)

This is a great example of why the government should stay out of the car business or any private business. Dealers are basically fronting the government thousands of dollars, the government isn't paying out in a timely manner, and of course the dealers get to take crap from everybody, no wonder dealers started walking away from this well thought out program.

And let's not forget the best part, the low income people in our nation get screwed again. I hear daily from customers how they can't believe how many really nice cars are being destroyed in this program, you guys taking these vehicles in know what I am talking about. This program has also driven prices up at the auctions, because instead of taking in a trade in that can be retailed they are sending them to the wreckers, so now dealers are fighting to stock up their lots, which in turn raises prices, screwing our lower income citizens again.

I signed a deal for a car back on July 31. My old vehicle has been owned and insured by myself since 1997 with absolutely no lapses in insurance or registration.
My dealer WILL NOT release any cars under the program until they get paid. I called the cars hotline and was told that they were only collecting information and weren't really doing anything against the dealers at all.
She kept saying that the dealer would be paid in 10 days. She didn't say whether the 10 days started when I signed the deal or after the rebate was approved. I tried to get it clear, but she just kept stating the program was designed for payment within 10 days.
So, here I am 22 days later, still waiting for my vehicle. I also still have my clunker. I'm worried that somehow my deal will eventually become invalid and I will have to start all over with a 13 year old car with over 218,000 miles that won't get my any kind of trade in value like this program.

@Jeff,
Just a follow-up on the situation with that dealership. They attempted to claim that they were submitting for approvals first and then later would be submitting for the rebate monies. I told them that that is not how I understand how it works from all the research I had done on the CARS.gov website from both the consumer and dealer sides. From what I understand is that it is one form/one filing. You apply for the program and it is both for approval and the rebate. I then said that the rebate money is between them and the gov't as they tried to claim that the girlfriend would have to sign an agreement to pay back the money if rejected by CARS.gov. I told them that they cannot force her to do that. If she wanted to agree to that, then that is her perogative, but it is not a part of the program. You make the sale, deliver the vehicle, submit to the program, that's it! I then was told that I would have to speak with the mgr, but not too long after the sales person came back and stated that the mgr was 10 deep and stated the they would P/D the car for delivery Monday evening - so they knew I had done my homework and gave in. Hopefully, she will take delivery Monday night (I will be there, too) without any added tricks. I did not get to the point of stating the I would be reporting them to the various factions I noted earlier. It is unfortunate how many other consumers this dealership has pulled this off on. There were many vehicles there with the "Sold" sticker on them, but not as many "clunkers" there (could have scrapped many already). But, it could be that others have challenged them and the been delivered the vehicle, but many don't even know what is happening to them. I am still debating on reporting them even after she receives delivery on Monday. I was not rude or insulting in any manner, just had done my homework and therefore had plenty information as my weapon against their lies.
Thanks again,
Joel

@Jeff,
Thank you for your follow-up and support. That text from the Dealer part of the CARS.gov site is exactly what I am going to present to them first. Wish us luck!
-Joel

Hi, I am a customer and have just returned from out of town. Last weekend my girlfriend and went out shopping for the CARS program. I had done a lot of homework prior to going to the dealers and knew her car qualified along with her paperwork and various other facets of the program. While away, she panicked due to the new deadline and went out and cut the deal on her own. The dealer has violated the rules of the program and made her take her clunker home attempting to wait for approval and/or payment. The website clearly states that they are to release the new car before sending form to CARS. She signed the title of the clunker over to them, got financing, gave a 13k downpayment, and has no car to show for it. We are going to go there today and I will confront them on this and if the new car is not given, then I will threaten reporting them to NHTSA, CARS.gov, and my state's attorney general's office. She has a P/A signed by them. Is there any other advice that I could receive before going down there.
Thank you ahead of time!

Sheri,
if the lapse was within the last twelve months the govt is supposed to reject the application for the money. it would be smart to let the dealer know immediately, and find out if they were accidently paid for it. doubtful, but you could get lucky. otherwise, the dealer will be just as eager to resolve this issue, so i would call them right away.

I recently partipcated in the program, having all my documentation in order. Two years worth of insurance, two years registration, yada yada. While putting my papers away, I realize that my insurance had actually lapsed by two days. I had switched companies. I cannot believe I did not remember and did not catch this...but worse..why didn't the dealer catch it? What do I need to do now? How much trouble will I be in and I hope to god my clunker hasn't been destroyed!

OK, thanks! Sucks but good to know its just not me!

Not for 90 minutes.

Can anyone log on to the cars.gov site?

I have been waiting for the paperwork to get approved since Aug.12, but the dealership did tell me that it would be at least two weeks. I was hoping that it would be sooner.

You can negotiate a traditional trade-in at your dealership. But given the information above, you are not eligible to participate in the CARS program at this time -- and attemts to participate can net you some serious legal trouble.

so i havent had my car for up to a year, let alone on insurance; is there NO WAY i can get rid of it??

Hi Clunker Queen I haven't checked yet this morning, but 14 so far. We really got "caught-up" last week -- after we put July to bed. Submission is taking less time now -- we scan all documents in order into one PDF titled All_Documents_Attached per the NHTSA-NADA webinar on 8-3-09, and the site is working fine. With necessary docs going "upstairs" labled like I mentioned, we basically have a "scanner" and a "submitter" and are able to keep-up with new deals as they arrive. If your paperwork is in order, from scan to "submit," plan on 30 minutes or so for each one.

Question for the Car Czar - the Clunker Queen at mid-size Nissan Suzuki store. I have a question for you... Many employees and man hours would you estimate are tied up in submiting 200 invoices. We have 65 deals "on the street" and if we get even close to caught up Friday/Satuday sales just put us back in the weeds on submission. Not to mention as you said not collecting all paperwork up front.

Just curious... How payments have you guys seen?