Some good commentary here. Alex I would have agreed with you before we went to weekly auction values. Jake, shame on you. Really. This is 2008 my friend. Duping customers is so 1985.

The bottom line for everybody is brand equity and conversion. Both Kbb and BB have recognizable brands in their respective geographies. Kbb is much stronger nationwide due to unique visitation and website relevance.

As many in this industry have argued better than I, you MUST POSITION YOURSELF in front of the MOST CAR BUYERS directly or indirectly in the MOST EFFICIENT WAY possible. If arming the consumer with the most information is the bottom line goal(assuming they'll get it anyways), why not use both tools accordingly?

It gets monotonous listening to Dealers complain about values being wrong or out of wack. It's all subjective-regional and incredibly fluid. There are so many variables leading to disconnect its hard to position blame on the vendor or the dealer.

At the end of the day, neither program is any more than a guide designed to get a person to raise their hand. Why not allow these hand raisers to use both and then best try to facilitate their buying experience?

I mean gentleman, neither program costs more than $300/mo? Isn't this kind of silly looking at it from behind the curtain?

If I was a DP, I'd set both icons up right next to each other on multiple pages on my site encouraging my customers to use both tools as a form of leverage against my sales staff. And in actuality, as data gets better and in real time, what Dealers wouldn't want to follow a model similar? Transparency is the name of the game now folks. We best all recognize.

Happy Holidays!

Jack, exactly what I was trying to get at...

Umer runs AutoJini (website provider), and I doubt he's trying to talk over anyone's heads, a couple of you just didn't understand the context of his comments. Anyway, I think what Umer is trying to say is that a "generic form" (i.e. a one-page web form asking for trade-in info) across 10 of his client sites is submitted by 1.67% of visitors, while he doesn't see any data on BB or KBB since those leads are dumped directly into his clients' CRM systems. I would agree with where (I think) Umer was going with his comments...I think a generic form could be as effective as the paid appraisal tools. Maybe even more effective. Of course it wouldn't provide customers with instant feedback in terms of value, but look at what Alex pointed out in his experience. Customers know they're gonna get hosed on the trade-in, and if you show them the number up front, 9 times out of 10 they're going to get pissed off and shop around until some other dealer shuffles the numbers and gives them a "better trade-in value".

In terms of branding, KBB has done a pretty good job in the consumer market. Ask any customer where they can find trade-in value and I bet 98% have at least heard of KBB while probably only 10% have heard of BB. If I were a dealer and had to choose between the two, I would go with the one that my customers would recognize. If they don't recognize the source of trade-in data, there's always that questions of "where did they get this number from?"

John, your name may seem strange to many. you should get out more... By cost structure I meant may be BB is cheaper then KBB... being that KBB has such a powerful brand... it may be that BB has a good rep in the area... Now regarding why I don't have Stats on the KBB or BB conversion... because the other stat I gave was for dealer websites we HOST... where BB/KBB forms are hosted by them and are framed in mostly... also that number only represents... website form conversion (visitors/trade-in info) submit, across 10 different dealerships... 4 OEM and 6 Used... it does not represent the close ratio... or leads from other forms on the dealer websites.

Ross, simply click on my name and then view portfolio link to see few of the dealer sites hosted/designed by us.

Alex have you thought about pulling this data from Vast, Oddle & Google Base. I believe Oddle or Vast have a graph on average time... not 100% though...

umer farooq - whats your dealership web address? i would like to check this out

ok, i have only been in the car biz for 9 months. before that i was in the mortgage biz...went from one struggling industry to another but i like this one better. before i worked at this dealership i never even heard of black book. we use kelly, its a good brand name and it flat out converts! my ucm says that toyota started using them since they went to weekly values. i have to agree with john hayden on the keepin it simple...the less info the better. we dont ask for a phone number or a last name. just a first name and e-mail.

Great idea Alex! Any feed back from v-auto on the suggestion?

I've been trying to push vAuto to build one of these. But instead of giving a trade figure, show X number of results from the auction, how many are currently in the marketplace, and some other data that is more on the money. Something also like the average time it takes to sell that particular model. Then pitch it to the customer like "find out what is happening with your car right now". This way they're not locked into a number from you.

With the way the used car market is right now, values drop substantially in a day and the KBB's, Black Books, etc cannot keep up. At least with a product like vAuto, things are being scrubbed more frequently and would give your customer a more honest picture. If you give more information, it would make you seem more transparent too.

I know that doesn't answer the initial question, so...

I have tried numerous products and ways for handling appraisals online and found they all lead to the same thing: pissed customers. A lot of the time the numbers coming from Black Book or KBB were not congruent with the appraisals at the store (for various reasons). Yes, there was probably some training issues in how a salesperson handled things, but since I took all trade forms down our "Internet Sales" numbers have stayed the same.

I meant as STRANGE

What you just said was as starnge as your name! What do you mean by cost structure? We pay more for Black Book than Blue Book although its close. Both go into your CRM so how can you not get closing ratios? Thats the purpose of your tool. But then again if you are only closing 1.67% of your leads from homegrown leads on your site. It totally explains why you would not want to report your closing percentages. Your trying to talk over our heads and I am sure thats what you do to your customers. I just looked at our CRM tool here is what we did last month.

BB online 298 leads closed 14
Kelley Blue Book 223 leads closed 31
Mailer leads using Blue Book 31 closd 7

I pulled all of this from my CRM tool!

From my experience at this point only these two trade-in tools are available for Dealer websites. You can plug in NADA but It's not really a lead driver. From the dealer sites we run... 3 to 1 are on Black Book vs KBB... might have to do with cost structure... I would personally love to see Edmunds.com TMV as a lead driver tool... now number of leads vs KBB or BB tool to a generic form... that is debatable... as a generic form converts at 1.67% rate (data taken across 10 dealerships)... I don't have conversion stats on KBB or BB tool as those go directly to CRM and are not hosted by us... although website heatmaps don't register a blimp in reports form KBB or BB buttons.

I have worked at dealerships that have both and or one they made. (That is the worst). My last dealership used both and the BB rep always wanted to know the lead numbers were and we never discussed them. I do know that customers would ask us if we made up BB as they had never heard of. I also had good closing ratios with both products. But if you are looking for a product consumers know it is not even a close conversation. Blue Book was easier. I do suggest you only ask for a few questions from the consumer as they are more often going to fill it out that way. First name and email. Also make sure you put the logo next to all of your used cars and impliment it on your site! We are also sewnding the logo out to all of our custoemrs on the news letters this is working great!

I do not know what has happened the last few months but Blue Books numbers are very very close! Are they doing something different on the way they get values? Does anyone out there know the answer to that?

Grant,
You're a reader! Awesome... Want you to know wasn't criticizing you. I enjoy your stuff, I employ many of your tactics daily. I just kinda chuckled when you weren't sure what to say because I do that; if I would've said it in person we would've all had a laugh, but this goes to reason why I do video blogs better.

I'm a fan, really!

--William

Jeff, you misunderstand me. As usual my dry humor goes mis-interpreted in text.

I share your love for Grant, I've been to several of his seminars and wouldn't fork over the dollars for his stuff if I didn't think it was great!

I was being sarcastic, Grant stumbled and it was kinda funny. We all know he's hugely successful and he wasn't sure what to say. I get that too, that's why it was funny.

Ah... looks like I stumbled my words... JEFF Don't mark me off your good list! Love ya man! I'll be more detailed next time!

Grant is awesome, lots of wisdom and great training tactics.

Jeff i wonder why the quality of the video has diminished on your site...

thanks jeff....the world is filled with people that sit at home and watch the game, others sit in the stands, some were good enough to make the team but still sit on the bench not yet good enough to play, while others take a risk and actually put themselves on the playing field.

I have always said that criticism is an indication that at least I am on the field playing the game. I really respect you for doing what you can and taking the risk that you do. grant cardone, author of sell to survive

"That's one big driveway"

"Uh, yeah thank you!"

Jeff, you are a Cardone's biggest fan, eh?

Increase Internet sales though creative copy

Is your auto dealership struggling to increase sales? Ask yourself: what separates your Toyota Camry ad from the thousands of others? Do you feel like sales is your pitch, not writing ads? Does it seem that your “message” is not attracting the consumer? Has non-value added time surpassed sales time? Well, there is suddenly a cure from commonality and the cure is only a click away at www.Generatemyads.com.

At www.Generatemyads.com we specialize in the creative construction of auto taglines (ads). We will take your ad from just another Joe Camry to Camry Somebody. This means your ad will stand on its own cyber-pedestal, away from the sea of commonality. Creative copy has been shown to greatly enhance consumer attitudes and behaviors. We guarantee your hits-per-view ratio will significantly increase within one month.

In fact, Generatemyads.com is so confident that we are offering the first month or up to 75 ads FREE. Come test drive our engine and be amazed at the results. Why not take a new road in advertising and experience the new route in ad creation

www.Generatemyads.com

The touch screen going to mute bothers me no more thanks to a FREE app that called TalkLock that you can download here:


I downloaded and and couldn't figure out where it went. It didn't go to the download folder like its supposed to. It asked if it could access my phone when I downloaded it. Since I said, Yes, it automatically installed itself in the background. First call I got, no more cheek mute!

Great review. It looks like a great phone. I am usually crazy with getting the hottest phone. I do love my iphone though. If and when I get bored with it, I will most likely convert to a blackberry.

YEEHAA!

The New Leaked OS is here:

Enjoy!

Honestly....you don't really need WiFi with VZ's fat EVDORevA pipe. Assuming you live in an area where their network is strong.

I've heard thru the grapevine it's on the hardware but VZ has disabled it like usual. Maybe a software update in the future will enable? BTW...the next software up date .83 is "loose in the wild". We'll all have it soon enough.

come on sprint lets move forward with something new and the instinct is not it.
I was disappointed when I read no wi-fi on the storm....whats up with that?