Boy it would have been nice if this sale would have happened 3 months ago when the company had their last RIF, costing 40 people their jobs.

It's no secret Autobytel is losing money every quarter so this sale will give them a few more quarters in which to continue losing money. MyRide was a catastrophe last summer when they tried to launch it. A perfect case of how outsourcing ends up costing you more money than you could have ever spent doing it right the first time.

Jeff, you're spot on when you speak to how frustrating the MyRide site is. They so want it to be the next Facebook. Plus how is it supposed to drive more traffic when no one outside the industry knows about it. They spent 10's of thousands of dollars promoting it in the automotive press, but none of those eyeballs are going to ever be an organic Autobytel lead.

In any event, hopefully this will prove a good move for AVV.

I have to agree with Alex's sentiment. When companies get purchased by Dominion there doesn't seem to be much that happens. Improvements are wishful thinking.

It would appear that you can look at the releases differently too. I'm writing a current blog post now to talk about it, but I would say that Autobytel and their focus on MyRide is a ruse for the fact that they probably spent too much on MyRide and that hurt their core business. Does anyone know anyone that goes there nowadays when searching for a new car?

Nobody has yet to produce a lead management tool that truly serves the needs of an Internet Sales Manager. The single most important component by far is the ability to drip information and stay in front of that prospect for months! Someone, someday (maybe me) is going to create a simple and effective lead management tool and make it actually affordable - $20 to $50 a month, or even free. Not only that, but if you can include let's say 100 effective email templates that can be modified, it'll be a hit. I have used AVV and it's mediocre at best.

MyRide.com = YACWSTTLC.
You can just feel the Suits at autobytel.com running it. It lacks "attitude".

YACWSTTLC
Yet
Another
Corporate
Web
Site
Trying to
Look
Cool


Gotta love DR!
Joe

Has Dominion ever improved on a product after purchasing it? Or do they just leave it alone to slowly become antiquated?

Andrew,

Thank God for Ben Franklin. The King of Philadelphia and true free thinking american capitalist that understood that customer's buy when value meets price. The general take on this string is that customers know what product (car) they want, have limited their options based on what they want and cannot, or will not be persuaded otherwise. So, where in this process did Steve's value meet his price? When the water at dealership was cold? Or, was he just lucky enough to find a sales person that pushed his buttons?

What's missing here is focusing on building trust and value because as an industry we are too worried every customer is looking at us with a jaundice eye and unless the sales department reveals some magic 'up-front' price the consumer will have nothing to do with us.

Most responses here are putting too many internet buyers in a box. And, in a way, so does Lithia as well as Plano Subaru. But, those dealers have a schtick and they spend a lot of money marketing their philosophy and it works for them. The message to the customer from this perspective is they will likely get a 'yes sir', 'no sir', or 'problem', or whatever common language they train their traditionally young and un-experienced order taking sales people to say. I wonder what the average age of their sales staff is? The mantra is 'give the customer and the sales staff the least path of resistence to move forward on a car deal.'

That is all great. But, at what point does the internet customer want to be shown by a credible (trusted) professional on why he, or she should spend $15,000 on a used Subaru or $96,000 on a new Supercharged Range Rover? At what amount of money is it important to the customer to have someone explain why they should justify them spending it? Or, does EVERYONE that submits an on-line inquiry just want a price before they are willing to engage a salesperson? Most here are sharing how to make their information flooded website divulge as much information as humanly possible to capture their interest.

The challenge is finding the customers cues that allow a trained professional to truly engage that customer. Every customer wants a shopping experience. Especially when shelling out the dough to buy car. Are internet sales departments exploring ways to give that customer the shopping experience they want? If a dealership can enhance the shopping experience - and some do - what does that do to customer loyalty (assuming the dealer can deliver post sale with service, parts, etc).

There is no right or wrong answer. The real question is: "How could Steve's shopping experience be enhanced?" I am not sure I belive the right answer is 'give him a quick quote in a slick email and hope he responds'. Or, 'hope he submits his cell so a real pro can corner him.'

Let's hear some feedback on experiences of engaging customers that had their expectations blown away and where value was built above and beyond the price expectations.

Wow! Long thread! Here's my two cents. First, forgive me all, but I do find a disconnect in the current operational scheme. The idea that a particular contact method entitles a consumer to a lower price is ridiculous. I think that if a statement is true I should be able to change an adjective or noun and the next statement MUST also be true, if not the original is suspect.

"Customers who use the INTERNET must have lower prices because they are savvy and know something about our business."

Hmmmm How about this:

"Customers who use the TELEPHONE must have lower prices because they are savvy and know something about our business."

or

"Customers who use the FAX MACHINE must have lower prices because they are savvy and know something about our business."

or this perhaps...

Customers who use the SHOWROOM DOOR must have HIGHER prices because they are NOT savvy and know NOTHING about our business."

It just doesn't wash friends. Cars (like houses boats RVs and leather jackets etc) have transaction prices based on the supply of inventory versus the demand in the public. If I can get all I want of the model you asked for and I have it in stock or can get it easily, KABOOM! you get the low price deal 'cause like my basketball coach told me once "I have the foul to give" BUT if the model in general or the color you want is in short supply and you won't switch....Shazamm! you get the high price and I don't shed one tear if you buy from anyone else. I have just one and I will sell it as high as I can.
I just turned a deal on an "07 left over that got sold $500 over list to a "Hard Core Mr Internet Manager I am sending this to 20 stores" kind of guy.

I was polite but firm and really meant it when I said I understood why he wanted it for less but my price was final.

Look, in 1760 something BEN FRANKLIN published POOR RICHARD'S ALMANAC. It had two pages devoted to the value of horses based on breed, age, and condition and POW! the invoice shopper was born!! I bet every blacksmith and stable owner in Philadelphia wanted to kill him!

People the internet will not save us nor will it doom us. It will not make us more gross and for sure will not make any less. The customer's use of it can't possibly make my car worth any less or any more. It is an information channel nothing more or less. One I like for a whole bunch of reasons.

I like to be controversial so I will ask all of you a question. If we all (and mean all of us) stopped answering the phones and emails tomorrow would Americans stop buying cars?

I like the out of box thinking with the phantom gmail account.
Prolly not something you want to tell your dealer about
I am always curious if that is the best approach from a buyer as well.
sometimes I can't help to think they are making it harder then it really is. I guess that is why I remind myself that I have to keep chopping that wood. I really do like your creative thinking Johnny.

I knew I should have checked back here more often Jeff, great email steve. I really enjoyed reading this post and Joe's little comments here and there gets a chuckle out of me every time.

I would have to agree with Jason's post about "Steve does not represent anywhere near the vast majority of the people who come to our websites". Very seldom does just a quick aggressive quote over the phone or email ever turn into a deal. I would say It works less than 10% of the time.

Now here is a new idea I am trying. 2 days ago I got a customer that stated this:

"To: Volvo Internet Sales

I am sending this email in regards to an immediate order for a 2008 Volvo S40.

I am contacting the 20 nearest dealers within a 360-mile radius for the best offer.

I am well aware that the order will take up to three months for delivery.

Please email me with your best offer ASAP, and I will consider your business.
I intend to place the order after satisfactory conditions have been met.
Thank you."

Now if any of you remember my previous post about not being able to quote numbers (I finally got the owner out of that frame of mind...thank god) This kind of an email is something my owner won't compete with. These guys out there just take too big of losers. So.... I created a gmail account and send the guy a BLOW OUT quote. Not too deep but enough to compete with the bigger guys out there. Meanwhile I'm working my end trying to build raport to earn his business. No response to any of my emails from the dealer email. Instant response from my gmail account which is a 4k loser. Way to deep for me. The kicker here is he is still shopping me! Still not committed to buy from me at that price. If only the market had more Steve's out there.

Thanks for the post Steve.

Johnny

steve - i liked this: "I will find YOU when I buy". I'm going to brainstorm around that one this weekend..

Jason - I agree with everything you said.

Jason--

I totally agree with you! Marketing to me would be wasteful, I will find YOU when I buy, and I own my cars long enough that the last three were donated to The Salvation Army (too many problems to think it right to palm off on some poor family)

I also am on board with the avoidance vs knowledge debate. The only reason I ever found out about Edmunds was cause the previous experiences had been so bad. If the dealership can build enough trust I would be there in a heartbeat... In fact, after reading his book, Sewell's was the first place I went, and was not trying to really haggle.

steve

I hope we all can keep one thing clear here:

Steve does not represent anywhere near the vast majority of the people who come to our websites.

Of course it is wise to have a process in place to accomodate his type of shopper when they do cross our path... but don't lose perspective and forget about the other 98% PLUS.

I get anywhere from 100-300 people a day to our website. Half of them are probably going to be buying a car from SOMEONE - and there MIGHT be 1 steve in the bunch.

I personaly don't build my marketing strategy centered around catering to that 'persona'. I let the market tell me what it wants - and it tells me the vast majority:
1) do NOT have much more then a basic idea about what vehicle they want.
2) The experience they are trying to avoid is high pressure and feeling like they've been beat up and treated badly. They're not trying to avoid dealerships - they're trying to avoid a bad experience.

These are the people who I choose to build my internet strategy around. I certainly hope we accomodate the 'steve's' out there when they do contact us - but I don't devote the bulk of my time and energy trying to market to them. At least not until I have my target market well taken care of...

Steve,

After you bought the Infinity I-30 and hung up the phone, did you wonder if you could get an even better deal?

Wayne

Wayne,

I was thinking a cell phone number and my "Which" email only was as anonymous as was likely to get a reply. And some still never got back to me. No last name given. Plus I have free incoming minute, so not a big deal if they keep calling and calling...

Funny, Park PLace Plano Lexus initially sent me the 3 packages, and no personalized info at all. Just his email and number, so it was not like the service was great at that point. But when I emailed him back my plea, he said he then thought perhaps I was not a car sales guy "shopping him".

Of course had to check around to make sure the info on packages being "mandatory" was true, but Edmunds forum confirmed it for Toyota Southeast (?) sales region.

By the way , Wayne, I bought my last car, Infinity I-30 over the phone in ten minutes. Grubb's manager thought i was joking at first... lol.

steve

Steve, great comments...

One area that I'm fuzzy about is when you say you emailed ten dealerships ..."I asked about the car, gave my cell phone, and waited."

You just gave it up like that? You would be like a fish hopping into my boat. And that never happens to me.

I think most of us here are seeing customers like yourself remaining anonymous and walking-in or calling.

Joe,

You're right, your quote, and right on. Sorry Brian, but it was late when I wrote it....

steve

Here is a link to an Edmunds "expose" about selling cars in two different types of shops. One high pressure, the other seems to be a Saturn place.

Although the first is presented badly as a business model, the second does not get a stellar rating, with a comment near the end about how NOT busy they are.

If I was a Domestic badge, I would have a tough time trying to convince the owners that a no haggle model would work. But i DO think its the future, just a matter of when.

Check out Business Week, Oct 29.07 there is a small article about No haggle pricing. It specifically mentions Lithia Automotive Group, the 8th largest in US said that it will turn all 108 stores over the next 3 years.

One thing I do NOT understand.... every high pressure sales arena emphasizes "Who is selling whom...?" So, when a manufacturer "pushes" excess inventory.... is it mandatory for y'all to take it? Maybe get together and just say no might work? Time for a lawyer maybe, and an introduction into the obligations of franchisor as well as franchisee?

Not saying it would work, but from the outside it looks like if they truly could "force you" then they would be able to bankrupt each and every one of you.

Steve

Air Traffic controller? Awesome! I guess the only thing I can really compare that with would be the movie Pushing Tin with Billy Bob Thorton. I always wondered how much G.M. paid Universal for them to drive a STS in that movie. (as your reference to Lexus proves no self respecting air traffic controller would drive one) I kid, I kid.

I like the idea of this:

"I would have pretty good prices right off the bat, No Haggling"

I think I will check with my friend that use to run a Saturn Dealership he always comes to mind when I consider that model myself.

>>>>>"until management realizes that the pay plan is hurting the business's ability to survive, nothing will change. Can someone tell me how to build relationships with this tension? NOT EASY."

Brian's quote above Ithink is the key....

Brain? whaa? Hey! that's My quote!
Bow before this wordsmith and do homage to my tome.

damm, did I write that?
hahaha

"until management realizes that the pay plan is hurting the business's ability to survive, nothing will change. Can someone tell me how to build relationships with this tension? NOT EASY."

Brian's quote above Ithink is the key. I would be surprised if ten years from now any dealer at all survived just on profits from car sales. The margins just seem too fine now. But, I think the way to get rid of the adversarial tension might be to start with the idea that car sales do not have to be singular events.

I really like Tim Morris' idea of having a service manager contact the email contact who was "shopping" the MB C-class sedan. In my opinion, limited as to being a car buyer, and few at that. I would think MOST folks do not buy on price! Heresy from someonw who shopped like I did... I think Tim is absolutely right when he suggests asking, besides price what other things are important to you?, and building value from their response! But I would go one further, I think the building value happens BEFORE you get them to your door. And if you do it right, maybe its the very reason they show up to begin with? How about a series of ads, not about price? Why not take all your newspaper budget for a month, and lay out a story......... of how you "partner with your customers"? Show the value of your dealership, instead of the 'price" of a car?
Dealer value seems to be the way to go in my view (I admit to being a singular persona, and it may not work for everyone--good point Wayne)

What if cars became so complicated you could not fix them yourself? Oh yeah, we are there now, lol. So how about a labor rate that induces me to get ALL work done, forever there? Not just the waranty work that is paid out like the US health system now? How about a true "market rate" for repairs. Would not the average consumer PREFER y'all to work on y'alls car? You are the experts in that particular brand/model right? You know the car best, since you have serviced "my baby" since I bought it from you?

If I owned a car site, and I think it would be a tough tough thing to do with others not on board with the concept. I would have pretty good prices right off the bat. No haggling. NO big commissions for sales. I would pay sales folks a salary, with a small token if you sell a car. But, if dealer hits goals monthly? Then a bonus to everyone! Let the guys on the floor feel like a team instead of competing with each other and internet department for commissions! And then each salesman would have an interest in handing me off, or finding someone else who might be able to "help", right?

My entire campaign would be one of communicating a "partnership" with the customer. Carl's book was good at that point I think. I am VERY price conscious, but would have paid extra for a Sewell vehicle. I am sure many others would also. My plan as a dealer would not be to sell the most cars necessarily, but rather to sell to the type of customer I wanted to attract. Tom Thumb does not market to Sack and Save customers, and truly might not even want them in the store. Not every Wal Mart customer is welcome at a Niemans, right?

So, Checkered Flag may be getting my "loyalty" over life of car, while Earl is getting a "full commission" from a different type customer?

Again, I make it sound easy, I do realize its not, especially for US nameplates that are overdistributed.

steve

Steve...

Park Place has had that warm-a$$ed Ego-label water and special pumped-in self-branded super-oxygenated air since their inception. Now the only question is, which store? Grapevine or Plano?

Small world huh?

Scott

hmmm,

okay, I do seem to know a fair amount about car sales(I emphasize seeming is NOT same as knowing. I admit to being very ignorant). My best friend in my 20's was a car salesman who was a bit older, who actually helped me buy my first car. I went in and negotiated. Then a week later, I took him in with me. He saved me $1500 on a Chevy C20 way back in 1978 at Love Cheverolet, in Dallas (now defunct).

I majored in marketing, and am currently trying to find work ( am a retiring air traffic controller) and a friend knows someone from the Stanley Auto Group. Friend knows I am way too proud of myself as far as marketing goes, (having zero experience since 1980) and suggested his Stanley contact would make an interesting lunch hour. So I started researching Automobile business models and internet stuff. (Do you know Jeff's site is singular in its model, that allows non car types to read the stuff (and may be alone period, but I cannot get into other sites)

Ahh yeah, one more thing, Carl Sewells book.... I wind up neighbors with "one of the service techs with the funny accent" that Carl talks about. He is now pretty high up at Bankston/AutoNation here in Dallas, so I have had some help as far as the consumer "knowledge" side of things.

By the way, anyone here on any other forums? This has to be one of the most respectful groups I have ever happended upon. You all should be proud of yourselves. Makes me wish I was a car guy. Even with Earl here! At least he has a point of view, and I feel for him.

I was not trying to be mean when I quoted the "speech". I admit to being non plussed at how to proceed as well.

steve

Steve has got to be Jeff...he knows too much

Steve,
Just curious.....what business would you be in?