JG - thanks for the definition. We know what 3rd party lead providers do. This is a discussion to say what we would like to see changed about them. Do you have anything to add in that regard?
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Blueprint Series: Third-Party Lead Providers
- Thread starter Alex Snyder
- Start date
Mike Muncy writes:
Instead of being charged to send your inventory and descriptions (the valuable content) to a site like cars.com or autotrader.com? Why are the dealerships not getting the service free - oodle.com or vast.com ...
Pete Says:
So nobody say first "they are already free listing services"...I know that but none have any "wind" ...Does anybody know of the one that just spent 6million in six months and is gone already?...Kaboom! and they will both be gone once someone gets enough wind at their back to offer the listings for free.
Not sure about you, but my mother always told me "if it sounds too good to be true..." and I'm sure you know the rest. If you are holding out hope that a new start up is going to come along and advertise all of your vehicles with customized video presentations, secure credit apps that integrate with your CRM and, hell, detail all of your cars before they take 47 photos of them and all at no cost to you because they "need" your inventory, I'm going to suggest that you don't hold your breath. That makes as much business sense as a dealership giving away cars to build brand loyalty.
The "wind" behind autotrader and cars.com is gale force. 6 million over six months? You have to lay 6 mil in 60 seconds to be a player at these tables. The tables for usedcars.com, myride.com, vehix.com, web2carz.com, getauto.com, peachstateautomall.com and pleaselookatmyFREElistings.com have a small ante and an equally small pot to be won.
I'll finish with this, if the maxim that Paul presents, "Content is King and Traffic is Supreme" is true, then Content and Traffic must co-exist for success to be possible. Free listings mean lots and lots of crappy content, if it were free fringe dealers would upload 100% of their inventory which would degrade the buyer pool i.e. craigslist. A barrier to entry, not a gouge, is a good thing for those that can afford to be inside the fence. The retail buyer (non-craigslist) seems to know the difference between these sites and shows a strong preference. But the real issue here is traffic, and just like every other medium, traffic is not free. There are real costs to providing effective products, that's why so many have tried to knock autotrader off the pedestal with the free listings model and failed.
Paul, you complain about leakage and suggest that inventory should be free, seems to me that you inherently must have one or the other. There are 3 options, the dealer pays to be on the site, the site is paid for by interuption advertising as in TV and Radio, or the end user uses the site by subscription which isnt likely, what am I missing? Looks to me like the cost of both of these sites are split between option 1 and 2.
At the end of the day "it takes money to make money" and maybe I'm not a visionary, but I just don't see anything on the horizon that is likely to change that.
Instead of being charged to send your inventory and descriptions (the valuable content) to a site like cars.com or autotrader.com? Why are the dealerships not getting the service free - oodle.com or vast.com ...
Pete Says:
So nobody say first "they are already free listing services"...I know that but none have any "wind" ...Does anybody know of the one that just spent 6million in six months and is gone already?...Kaboom! and they will both be gone once someone gets enough wind at their back to offer the listings for free.
Not sure about you, but my mother always told me "if it sounds too good to be true..." and I'm sure you know the rest. If you are holding out hope that a new start up is going to come along and advertise all of your vehicles with customized video presentations, secure credit apps that integrate with your CRM and, hell, detail all of your cars before they take 47 photos of them and all at no cost to you because they "need" your inventory, I'm going to suggest that you don't hold your breath. That makes as much business sense as a dealership giving away cars to build brand loyalty.
The "wind" behind autotrader and cars.com is gale force. 6 million over six months? You have to lay 6 mil in 60 seconds to be a player at these tables. The tables for usedcars.com, myride.com, vehix.com, web2carz.com, getauto.com, peachstateautomall.com and pleaselookatmyFREElistings.com have a small ante and an equally small pot to be won.
I'll finish with this, if the maxim that Paul presents, "Content is King and Traffic is Supreme" is true, then Content and Traffic must co-exist for success to be possible. Free listings mean lots and lots of crappy content, if it were free fringe dealers would upload 100% of their inventory which would degrade the buyer pool i.e. craigslist. A barrier to entry, not a gouge, is a good thing for those that can afford to be inside the fence. The retail buyer (non-craigslist) seems to know the difference between these sites and shows a strong preference. But the real issue here is traffic, and just like every other medium, traffic is not free. There are real costs to providing effective products, that's why so many have tried to knock autotrader off the pedestal with the free listings model and failed.
Paul, you complain about leakage and suggest that inventory should be free, seems to me that you inherently must have one or the other. There are 3 options, the dealer pays to be on the site, the site is paid for by interuption advertising as in TV and Radio, or the end user uses the site by subscription which isnt likely, what am I missing? Looks to me like the cost of both of these sites are split between option 1 and 2.
At the end of the day "it takes money to make money" and maybe I'm not a visionary, but I just don't see anything on the horizon that is likely to change that.
- Apr 13, 2009
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- Paul
----At the end of the day "it takes money to make money" and maybe I'm not a visionary, but I just don't see anything on the horizon that is likely to change that.---
Remember the day when AOL was the Internet?
Are you old enough to remember when Word Perfect was the standard?
Do you use IE browser only?
What happened to 5.25 and 3.5 floppy disk?
What happened to all of the stock brokers that guided your daily investments?
Look around you the online/computing world is very fluid and what was standard quo yesterday is now a memory. I suggest you read this article. http://www.newsweek.com/id/106554/page/1 and see if you can figure out how ludicrous the opinion given 13 years ago is today..
Paul
Remember the day when AOL was the Internet?
Are you old enough to remember when Word Perfect was the standard?
Do you use IE browser only?
What happened to 5.25 and 3.5 floppy disk?
What happened to all of the stock brokers that guided your daily investments?
Look around you the online/computing world is very fluid and what was standard quo yesterday is now a memory. I suggest you read this article. http://www.newsweek.com/id/106554/page/1 and see if you can figure out how ludicrous the opinion given 13 years ago is today..
Paul
I think Dealers want more-better leads. Unfortunately, the market is only so big and only demands so much. Dealers want ways to work leads better and longer. Leads are increasingly becoming more important because sales are slow. I think Dealers want lead scoring but there are issues to address first.
---see if you can figure out how ludicrous the opinion given 13 years ago is today..
Actually, before aol was the internet it was bbs servers, and yes, I remember! No doubt the landscape has changed. Linkway on a 386 is a distant memory and a 14.4 baud modem won't handle the flash on the sites these days. But I think you know that was not the point I was making.
Since the first caveman started exchanging shiny rocks and a dull stick for a pointy one from the guy in the cave down the dirt trail certain things have had more value than others because they were more effective.
I'm not talking about a decade of technological advancement, surely the stuff we do today will be equally as foolish to us in another decade. I respectfully disagree with the assertion that substantial value can be derived with nominal investment in any medium. Since the modern era of mass marketing somebody foots the bill regardless of medium or industry. From your comment, I'm still not sure how you see it differently?
Actually, before aol was the internet it was bbs servers, and yes, I remember! No doubt the landscape has changed. Linkway on a 386 is a distant memory and a 14.4 baud modem won't handle the flash on the sites these days. But I think you know that was not the point I was making.
Since the first caveman started exchanging shiny rocks and a dull stick for a pointy one from the guy in the cave down the dirt trail certain things have had more value than others because they were more effective.
I'm not talking about a decade of technological advancement, surely the stuff we do today will be equally as foolish to us in another decade. I respectfully disagree with the assertion that substantial value can be derived with nominal investment in any medium. Since the modern era of mass marketing somebody foots the bill regardless of medium or industry. From your comment, I'm still not sure how you see it differently?
- Apr 13, 2009
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JL The point is what is the accepted standard today may not always be the case.
However I disagree with this statement:
"I respectfully disagree with the assertion that substantial value can be derived with nominal investment in any medium."
It is proven wrong time and time again in niches outside of the automobile industry and to some extent inside of it.
Paying to provide content to a website that they monetize in ways that do not benefit you is ignorance of acceptable standards.
Just think if all user generated content sites charged for admission. How successful they would be?
Same concept different venues...
However I disagree with this statement:
"I respectfully disagree with the assertion that substantial value can be derived with nominal investment in any medium."
It is proven wrong time and time again in niches outside of the automobile industry and to some extent inside of it.
Paying to provide content to a website that they monetize in ways that do not benefit you is ignorance of acceptable standards.
Just think if all user generated content sites charged for admission. How successful they would be?
Same concept different venues...
consumer pay for a subscription? Like consumer reports? You can't get anything for free from consumer reports.
---Paying to provide content to a website that they monetize in ways that do not benefit you is ignorance of acceptable standards.
Not trying to be argumentative, but "acceptable standards" would be what the two parties enter into at the time of a business relationship, correct?
Last thing and then I'm done. I already feel like I hijacked this thread. Please don't block me Jeff.
---Just think if all user generated content sites charged for admission. How successful they would be?
Same concept different venues...
Again disagree. I have the most viewed videos on youtube open and, oh my goodness, not a single advertisement. I've been through 7 pages and not a single one of them are encouraging me to make a purchase. Crazy! Could it be that most of the people going to this site aren't looking to buy anything, and the vast majority of people supplying the content arent selling anything?
Different venues, Totally different concept!
I assume that all the content you are generating and sending to cars.com and autotrader is for the expressed purpose of commerce. And likewise, the users that get on those sites are at least somewhere in the process of researching and buying a car.
With the exception of Craigslist, and even that one in a few markets that now charge for employment and realestate listings, the user generated content sites are not designed to benefit the user that supplied the content monetarily. I think that your argument against the monetization of user generated content is neutered when you consider the supplier and the end user's expectations.
No hard feelings I hope, just drastically different viewpoints.
Not trying to be argumentative, but "acceptable standards" would be what the two parties enter into at the time of a business relationship, correct?
Last thing and then I'm done. I already feel like I hijacked this thread. Please don't block me Jeff.
---Just think if all user generated content sites charged for admission. How successful they would be?
Same concept different venues...
Again disagree. I have the most viewed videos on youtube open and, oh my goodness, not a single advertisement. I've been through 7 pages and not a single one of them are encouraging me to make a purchase. Crazy! Could it be that most of the people going to this site aren't looking to buy anything, and the vast majority of people supplying the content arent selling anything?
Different venues, Totally different concept!
I assume that all the content you are generating and sending to cars.com and autotrader is for the expressed purpose of commerce. And likewise, the users that get on those sites are at least somewhere in the process of researching and buying a car.
With the exception of Craigslist, and even that one in a few markets that now charge for employment and realestate listings, the user generated content sites are not designed to benefit the user that supplied the content monetarily. I think that your argument against the monetization of user generated content is neutered when you consider the supplier and the end user's expectations.
No hard feelings I hope, just drastically different viewpoints.
- Apr 13, 2009
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---No hard feelings I hope, just drastically different viewpoints.---
Absolutely no hard feelings. I don't even know who I am talking to.
Almost all UCG style sites have advertising on them and some exist so people users can profit from their use.
Eventually there will be a happy medium in this arena, but current models are just not very supportive of dealers.
Absolutely no hard feelings. I don't even know who I am talking to.
Almost all UCG style sites have advertising on them and some exist so people users can profit from their use.
Eventually there will be a happy medium in this arena, but current models are just not very supportive of dealers.
- May 1, 2005
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