- Apr 13, 2009
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- Paul
One thing I would like to see from the current vendors I use is a discounted rate or a credit for leads that do not provide a valid phone number. It is not a common issue but it does exist.
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Blueprint Series: Third-Party Lead Providers
- Thread starter Alex Snyder
- Start date
Found a screen cap that summarizes the significance of a Autotrader's "leakage" as mentioned previously. I'm aware the vast share of their audience is concentrating on cars within their respective DMA/zip, but how much of this "leakage" is really happening? I'd like to see more "local" promotions on pages, lets get more "local" oriented with "local" landing pages on classified sites.
View: http://www.flickr.com/photos/21147718@N02/2346794830/sizes/o/
View: http://www.flickr.com/photos/21147718@N02/2346794830/sizes/o/
Thanks to all for your input on this extremely important topic! In the spirit of openness, I am the VP of Advertising Products for Cars.com and received Jeff’s okay before making this post to express my appreciation. I have been and will continue to be reading carefully.
Since Cars.com is the only company offering both 3rd party leads (through our NewLeadsPlus product, not associated with the Cars.com website) and inventory based solutions (through our core Cars.com products) I am grateful for the fact that the bulk of this discussion has distinguished between the two.
Leads services like Autobytel, AutoUSA, Dealix, and our own NewLeadsPlus product are a bit antiquated, as Jeff points out. We have enhanced the value of our offering relative to others by limiting the leads sources to search and in-market automotive sites like kbb.com, Edmunds.com, and NewCars.com, but I certainly don’t expect this product category to remain unchanged for another 13 years. Mike points out the desire for the IP address and click-stream data. That, of course, would need to be optioned into by the consumer because of privacy but is something we will investigate and work toward. Other ideas are extremely appreciated.
The core Cars.com product is a subscription service, because most consumers never submit a request for quote through any site, as pointed out by Jeff. By not having to put our stamp on a consumer in order to monetize them, the shopper is free to contact the store by phone, email, or website transfer. Additionally the shopper can simply go directly to the store without leaving any evidence to demonstrate that it was the dealer’s listing on Cars.com that sent them. This makes it impossible for Cars.com to be compensated on a per sales basis. Having read Mike’s post I will increase our efforts toward greater measurement of performance on all fronts, including walk-in traffic.
Many thanks for the recommendation regard secure credit applications (SCA). Our new SCA is our fastest selling product. However, it does not load directly to the CRM system, and we are scrambling today to change that if at all possible (thanks Chris). We will continue to focus on dealers offering BHPH and help dealers reach those consumers and we are working toward enhancing our product offerings specifically for those dealers later this year, but I agree with Chris on the desire to have it even sooner.
Cars.com certainly strives to be supportive of dealers, and that starts with listening to them. Thanks to all for extremely valuable input.
Since Cars.com is the only company offering both 3rd party leads (through our NewLeadsPlus product, not associated with the Cars.com website) and inventory based solutions (through our core Cars.com products) I am grateful for the fact that the bulk of this discussion has distinguished between the two.
Leads services like Autobytel, AutoUSA, Dealix, and our own NewLeadsPlus product are a bit antiquated, as Jeff points out. We have enhanced the value of our offering relative to others by limiting the leads sources to search and in-market automotive sites like kbb.com, Edmunds.com, and NewCars.com, but I certainly don’t expect this product category to remain unchanged for another 13 years. Mike points out the desire for the IP address and click-stream data. That, of course, would need to be optioned into by the consumer because of privacy but is something we will investigate and work toward. Other ideas are extremely appreciated.
The core Cars.com product is a subscription service, because most consumers never submit a request for quote through any site, as pointed out by Jeff. By not having to put our stamp on a consumer in order to monetize them, the shopper is free to contact the store by phone, email, or website transfer. Additionally the shopper can simply go directly to the store without leaving any evidence to demonstrate that it was the dealer’s listing on Cars.com that sent them. This makes it impossible for Cars.com to be compensated on a per sales basis. Having read Mike’s post I will increase our efforts toward greater measurement of performance on all fronts, including walk-in traffic.
Many thanks for the recommendation regard secure credit applications (SCA). Our new SCA is our fastest selling product. However, it does not load directly to the CRM system, and we are scrambling today to change that if at all possible (thanks Chris). We will continue to focus on dealers offering BHPH and help dealers reach those consumers and we are working toward enhancing our product offerings specifically for those dealers later this year, but I agree with Chris on the desire to have it even sooner.
Cars.com certainly strives to be supportive of dealers, and that starts with listening to them. Thanks to all for extremely valuable input.
Dennis - thanks for posting. Jeff and I were just talking about your comment and we both think it is awesome you decided to let everyone on Dealer Refresh know Cars.com is listening! We both thank you.
We also hope you've started a trend.
We also hope you've started a trend.
I concur with this statement and one we all should visit when salary time comes around.
"Additionally the shopper can simply go directly to the store without leaving any evidence to demonstrate that it was the dealer’s listing on Cars.com that sent them. This makes it impossible for Cars.com to be compensated on a per sales basis."
"Additionally the shopper can simply go directly to the store without leaving any evidence to demonstrate that it was the dealer’s listing on Cars.com that sent them. This makes it impossible for Cars.com to be compensated on a per sales basis."
I do agree with much of what's been said here but have to add my .02.
As I mentioned in a post a couple of weeks ago, how you handle the vendors such as Autotrader and Cars.com depends on your biz model. If you're interested in branding your particular dealership, and you're willing to get the mack-daddy premier package, then open the wallet and spend away.
However, if it's the bang for the buck you're looking for, i.e. - leads, phone calls, walk-ins, you can't beat your own site/s.
My willingness to be on these vendor sites has everything to do with the fact that my competitors are on there and nothing else. I could care less about the branding aspect. My reps all know not to use that "We're not a lead provider" line with me.
My opinion on the branding you get with these sites is about like having a billboard on an interstate where the traffic is always 75MPH. With another billboard over yours, under yours and right behind it.
We close our website leads at a much higher percentage than any 3rd party lead provider or marketing site so why shouldn't we put more focus there?
After all, you're the only billboard on that particular interstate.
As I mentioned in a post a couple of weeks ago, how you handle the vendors such as Autotrader and Cars.com depends on your biz model. If you're interested in branding your particular dealership, and you're willing to get the mack-daddy premier package, then open the wallet and spend away.
However, if it's the bang for the buck you're looking for, i.e. - leads, phone calls, walk-ins, you can't beat your own site/s.
My willingness to be on these vendor sites has everything to do with the fact that my competitors are on there and nothing else. I could care less about the branding aspect. My reps all know not to use that "We're not a lead provider" line with me.
My opinion on the branding you get with these sites is about like having a billboard on an interstate where the traffic is always 75MPH. With another billboard over yours, under yours and right behind it.
We close our website leads at a much higher percentage than any 3rd party lead provider or marketing site so why shouldn't we put more focus there?
After all, you're the only billboard on that particular interstate.
Billy:
The leads from your own website are ALWAYS going to close at a higher clip. That doesn't mean that those leads are exclusive to your own website (meaning your website didn't originate the consumer). If a consumer saw your vehicle on a third party site (lets just say for the sake of argument your name was Billy Ford) and then decided in the next day or two to come back to that vehicle, but instead of going to the third party site they thought, hmmm his name was Billy Ford, I wonder if there is a BillyFord.com or if there is not I know I can google it. That way I won't have to sift through all the other vehicles to find it again. BOOM! Now the consumer is at your front door and ready to learn your hours, your salespeople, your history, and come buy a car. People that go to your website are usually in the final stages of purchase. It is where they start their search that doesn't get credit. You, the dealer, don't want to know that a consumer went to your website, contacted through it, and then bought a vehicle, do you? I would think you would want to know how they arrived at your website. I may be wrong here, but I don't think people just wake up and go to BillyFord.com. There must be some kind of call to action(advertisement). The great thing about Cars.com and AutoTrader.com is that people that go to those site are only looking for one thing, a vehicle. Those two sites dominate the online used car marketplace. You do believe that most of your consumers are finding you online now, right?
Saying that the leads on your personal website are the best to you REP is the same difference as you not allowing your REP to say "We are not a lead provider." In my case, and I sell for Cars.com, I AM NOT A LEAD PROVIDER, but I do sell a "lead-providing" product, ha! You, the dealer, create your own leads and are not relying on me to provide them to you. If you are sitting back and waiting for AutoTrader.com or Cars.com to provide you leads, then other dealers are taking advantage of you. My job is to put your inventory in front of as many car shoppers as possible and then let them contact you in any way they seem fit (email,phone,website,walk-in). The analogy of comparing Cars.com/AutoTrader.com to a billboard is ridiculous, unless of course you live in a town where everybody that drives down the road is a car shopper at that moment. If so, I think all the dealers on here want to relocate to your town.
Also, I know you were kidding when you said that "My willingness to be on these vendor sites has everything to do with the fact that my competitors are on there and nothing else."...right? If not, there are plenty of one-liners that will fit here (insert one to your pleasing).
This is a great topic and I have enjoyed learning some of the things dealers expect and want from us as third party vendors/salespeople. I will keep telling my dealers that I am NOT a lead provider even if they think otherwise. I love what I do and my dealers know that. I expect them to have the same passion about their business as I do. Yes we will butt heads on occasion, but we can also learn from each other and try to understand our different points of view.
I got to eat dinner now.
McCoy
The leads from your own website are ALWAYS going to close at a higher clip. That doesn't mean that those leads are exclusive to your own website (meaning your website didn't originate the consumer). If a consumer saw your vehicle on a third party site (lets just say for the sake of argument your name was Billy Ford) and then decided in the next day or two to come back to that vehicle, but instead of going to the third party site they thought, hmmm his name was Billy Ford, I wonder if there is a BillyFord.com or if there is not I know I can google it. That way I won't have to sift through all the other vehicles to find it again. BOOM! Now the consumer is at your front door and ready to learn your hours, your salespeople, your history, and come buy a car. People that go to your website are usually in the final stages of purchase. It is where they start their search that doesn't get credit. You, the dealer, don't want to know that a consumer went to your website, contacted through it, and then bought a vehicle, do you? I would think you would want to know how they arrived at your website. I may be wrong here, but I don't think people just wake up and go to BillyFord.com. There must be some kind of call to action(advertisement). The great thing about Cars.com and AutoTrader.com is that people that go to those site are only looking for one thing, a vehicle. Those two sites dominate the online used car marketplace. You do believe that most of your consumers are finding you online now, right?
Saying that the leads on your personal website are the best to you REP is the same difference as you not allowing your REP to say "We are not a lead provider." In my case, and I sell for Cars.com, I AM NOT A LEAD PROVIDER, but I do sell a "lead-providing" product, ha! You, the dealer, create your own leads and are not relying on me to provide them to you. If you are sitting back and waiting for AutoTrader.com or Cars.com to provide you leads, then other dealers are taking advantage of you. My job is to put your inventory in front of as many car shoppers as possible and then let them contact you in any way they seem fit (email,phone,website,walk-in). The analogy of comparing Cars.com/AutoTrader.com to a billboard is ridiculous, unless of course you live in a town where everybody that drives down the road is a car shopper at that moment. If so, I think all the dealers on here want to relocate to your town.
Also, I know you were kidding when you said that "My willingness to be on these vendor sites has everything to do with the fact that my competitors are on there and nothing else."...right? If not, there are plenty of one-liners that will fit here (insert one to your pleasing).
This is a great topic and I have enjoyed learning some of the things dealers expect and want from us as third party vendors/salespeople. I will keep telling my dealers that I am NOT a lead provider even if they think otherwise. I love what I do and my dealers know that. I expect them to have the same passion about their business as I do. Yes we will butt heads on occasion, but we can also learn from each other and try to understand our different points of view.
I got to eat dinner now.
McCoy
- Apr 15, 2009
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- Mike
McCoy and Billy: It's been my experience that you're both right.
What you both are talking about is lead funnel analysis. Car shoppers use more than one method to contact multiple dealerships when given the opportunity - and they have plenty of opportunity.
Billy, your results of leads closing is incomplete unless you are properly identifying every step the prospect created during their entire sales process.
McCoy, you are way off base if you think you are not a lead provider... you are an email lead provider, a phone lead provider, a walk-in provider - all that matters to the dealership is the fact that they give you inventory and you provide them leads in multiple forms.
The better debate would be effective measurement and optimization of each of a dealerships funnels to increase ROI.
Lead providers in all forms can better enable dealerships to work with them by providing more information about where leads come from so that empirical tools can be employed. Getting back to the idea of this post... more transparency please.
Mike / Carfeine.com
What you both are talking about is lead funnel analysis. Car shoppers use more than one method to contact multiple dealerships when given the opportunity - and they have plenty of opportunity.
Billy, your results of leads closing is incomplete unless you are properly identifying every step the prospect created during their entire sales process.
McCoy, you are way off base if you think you are not a lead provider... you are an email lead provider, a phone lead provider, a walk-in provider - all that matters to the dealership is the fact that they give you inventory and you provide them leads in multiple forms.
The better debate would be effective measurement and optimization of each of a dealerships funnels to increase ROI.
Lead providers in all forms can better enable dealerships to work with them by providing more information about where leads come from so that empirical tools can be employed. Getting back to the idea of this post... more transparency please.
Mike / Carfeine.com
This is what I want from a 3rd Party Vendor assuming tools, processes and trained personel are in place to accomodate at dealership.
ROI: 10% sold ratio new/used with grosses accordingly to franchise and market.
Quality lead scrubbing: Ex: Calling a phone number and it's disconnected, sending the perfect email to an address that's non-existant, or receiving a new car lead from 250 miles away, unacceptable.
Acceptance of bad leads: Don't charge me for all the leads this month, then subtract the "accepted" bad/duplicate leads on following months bill.
Ease of return bad/duplicate leads from any CRM tool to vendor, not faxing, calling or otherwise.
Marketing: 1. Exact knowledge of how the Vendor produces their leads. What are the URL's customers click on to produce a lead? If a General Manager knew it was CarsBelowInvoice or WhyPaySticker . com, that contract wouldn't go very far. 2. Is my dealerships new vehicles exclusive to a certain mile range?
I dont consider ATC or Cars.com online advertising as a 3rd party Lead Vendor. The best ROI I've experienced from a 3rd party lead source is clickmotive, hands down.
ROI: 10% sold ratio new/used with grosses accordingly to franchise and market.
Quality lead scrubbing: Ex: Calling a phone number and it's disconnected, sending the perfect email to an address that's non-existant, or receiving a new car lead from 250 miles away, unacceptable.
Acceptance of bad leads: Don't charge me for all the leads this month, then subtract the "accepted" bad/duplicate leads on following months bill.
Ease of return bad/duplicate leads from any CRM tool to vendor, not faxing, calling or otherwise.
Marketing: 1. Exact knowledge of how the Vendor produces their leads. What are the URL's customers click on to produce a lead? If a General Manager knew it was CarsBelowInvoice or WhyPaySticker . com, that contract wouldn't go very far. 2. Is my dealerships new vehicles exclusive to a certain mile range?
I dont consider ATC or Cars.com online advertising as a 3rd party Lead Vendor. The best ROI I've experienced from a 3rd party lead source is clickmotive, hands down.
Hi Folks!
Great topic and some excellent commentary thru out.
I'd like to offer my own comments- if I may.
What Jeff is saying is exactly right about Lead Provision and Aggregation. Dollar cost per leads had their place in the evolution of the digital space. But that time has past.
Let's be really honest about a 3rd Generation in Market Digital Car Shopper. Do we think they want the Dealer to be in control of the process? How many of these shoppers go into the Endemic sites, search engines, software programs and then outright refuse to give up their Name-Email Address and Phone # in lieu of going directly to the dealer to control the process themselves? I'll give you a hint. It's more than 75%. (3rd Gen Folks here--which are the people we should be concerning ourselves with)
I think we all know the reason why this has become the norm.
So what to do?
The answers are littered thru the comments in this section.
The buzz word is TRANSPARENCY!
Tell your vendors you want this:
*Click stream Data up to 60 days from first visit measuring any/all transaction.
*Microsites(Landing Pages) Built into all Banner Ad Campaigns specific to the path of the site visitors intent(ie Used Content for a Listings shopper)
*Web Based Real Time Analytics with log in for multiple parties at store level(Customizing for supreme granularity, or basic overview)
*Rich Media Ads Enabling Video-Direct Text Linking(SEO)and most importantly Pixel Tagging.
*Co-OP Support and Approval
*Thank You Pages and Follow Up(Calls/Emails) from the Vendor/site to all Shopper generated lead submissions(transparent to the Dealer)
*Endemic Auto Site Lead Programs directly indexable by the Major Search Engines
The sooner we/the Industry start giving you this kind of transparency, the faster you will maximize your digital spend and truly realize the power of this medium.
Great topic and some excellent commentary thru out.
I'd like to offer my own comments- if I may.
What Jeff is saying is exactly right about Lead Provision and Aggregation. Dollar cost per leads had their place in the evolution of the digital space. But that time has past.
Let's be really honest about a 3rd Generation in Market Digital Car Shopper. Do we think they want the Dealer to be in control of the process? How many of these shoppers go into the Endemic sites, search engines, software programs and then outright refuse to give up their Name-Email Address and Phone # in lieu of going directly to the dealer to control the process themselves? I'll give you a hint. It's more than 75%. (3rd Gen Folks here--which are the people we should be concerning ourselves with)
I think we all know the reason why this has become the norm.
So what to do?
The answers are littered thru the comments in this section.
The buzz word is TRANSPARENCY!
Tell your vendors you want this:
*Click stream Data up to 60 days from first visit measuring any/all transaction.
*Microsites(Landing Pages) Built into all Banner Ad Campaigns specific to the path of the site visitors intent(ie Used Content for a Listings shopper)
*Web Based Real Time Analytics with log in for multiple parties at store level(Customizing for supreme granularity, or basic overview)
*Rich Media Ads Enabling Video-Direct Text Linking(SEO)and most importantly Pixel Tagging.
*Co-OP Support and Approval
*Thank You Pages and Follow Up(Calls/Emails) from the Vendor/site to all Shopper generated lead submissions(transparent to the Dealer)
*Endemic Auto Site Lead Programs directly indexable by the Major Search Engines
The sooner we/the Industry start giving you this kind of transparency, the faster you will maximize your digital spend and truly realize the power of this medium.
✨ AI Highlights
Dealers and industry insiders debate the value of third-party lead providers like AutoTrader, Cars.com, Dealix, and AutoUSA, with most agreeing that ROI has declined sharply for many of these sources. The core frustration centers on low-intent, low-quality leads, with participants urging dealers to prioritize their own website traffic first and use third-party leads only as a supplement. A recurring insight is that driving customers back to the dealer's own site — through email campaigns, TV, and print — yields better returns than relying on outside lead generators.
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