HomeNet issues... How bad are they? Phones are down all day Today
- Thread starter AutoAlliance
- Start date
- Apr 7, 2009
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- Joe
I am happy to say that, as of this am, my inventory is looking very good.
Wow, I hope this is the end of that storm.
Wow, I hope this is the end of that storm.
Homenet IOL shows that you can move vehicles between rooftops. I tried it and lost the photos, vehicle style and some copy data that I had posted. BEWARE!
Hi, folks. My name is Sean, and I'm one of the developers here at HomeNet. I wrote a lot of the website code in IOL 2, and contributed in several other parts of it too, and I know IOL 2 very very well. So in defense of my company and our hard work over the last three years (and especially the last couple of weeks!), I'm going to try to respond to your questions here with real, actual facts and solid answers.
Why am *I* answering here? Well, our client-services people are busy answering your phone calls, and our management is busy dealing with trying to keep everything and everybody together, and much of the rest of the dev team is a little nervous to talk directly to the dealers. That's left your questions here in this thread woefully unanswered, and I think they deserve answers, so I'm going to try to pick up the slack. (And here's hoping my bosses don't get too unhappy that I'm talking directly to you!)
And for the record: I'm a programmer. My degree is in Computer Science, not Marketing or Sales, so please take what I say with a grain of salt: It hasn't been filtered to be a good sound bite; it hasn't been filtered to be a "safe" answer that is solely designed to keep you from being worried; but what I say will be true and honest. Please be patient and kind with me, and in exchange, I'll be truthful and honest with you.
------------
*gulp*... And now it's time to tackle some of Joe Pistell's questions and comments...
But our goal was to make sure that IOL 2 was close enough in appearance and usability to IOL 1 that you guys would be okay with how it turned out without having to be asked. I'm not sure we met that goal, but we tried.
But we couldn't just select specific dealers to be included because of all the data interconnects: X dealer wants to be a part of the beta, but they have contracts with Y reseller, so Y reseller would have to be part of the beta, but for them to be part of the beta and have it work right most or all of their customers would have to be part of it as well, and for one of their customers Z to be part of it, Q reseller would have to be, and it just spirals outward consuming dealer after dealer and partner after partner until you have nearly every one of our customers involved in it in some way. So selectively moving dealers over would have resulted in almost all of you being moved over, which really isn't much different than just going live, which is what our management finally decided we'd do anyway when the programming seemed to be "done." I wish it could've gone a different way, but we didn't have much choice: It was all or nothing.
IOL 2 isn't a mere "update," like a lot of our sales and marketing types are saying: It's brand-new from the ground up, designed with a solid foundation to be able to grow with your requests, a foundation that IOL 1 never had and never could have. It's designed to look and feel a bit like IOL 1, but under the hood, it's all new. IOL 1 *worked*, but it wasn't well-designed, and the whole company knew its limitations were hurting us and hurting you too.
Because IOL 2 really is brand-new, there are more than a few growing pains involved in moving everybody to it. Yes, it's slow, but the foundation is now there for us to be able to make it not just fast again but faster than IOL 1 ever was. Yes, there are places where IOL 2 doesn't do exactly what IOL 1 did, but we're trying to make it fit those old rules as quickly as we can. Yes, it's not tablet-friendly, but the foundation is there so we can actually make it tablet-friendly --- IOL 1 could never have become tablet-friendly no matter how hard we tried. IOL 2 is designed so that we can *respond* to your requests, so that we can fix things you don't like and add new features you've been wanting, so that we're not stuck and have to tell you "no, we can't do that."
So now there's some time getting us all out of the woods, but once we're out, we can all move forward. I'm very much looking forward to writing the code for some things that have been your feature requests for years and years now, for things that will smooth out your workflow, and for new ideas that could help you manage and promote your inventory in ways you never realized were possible. I believe in this project, and I think long-term, it eventually *will* help you sell more cars. We have a long list of new stuff to build that you've been asking for --- proper tablet support included. But we have to finish making IOL 2 fully *work* for you guys first.
------------
Anyway, I hope my answers help assuage your fears. We're working really hard here to make IOL 2 not only not *suck* but actually be *good*. If you guys have any questions that I could answer, feel free to ask them here and I'll try my best. In the interim, I have bugs to fix, so if you don't see me here for a day or two, that's what I'm doing.
Why am *I* answering here? Well, our client-services people are busy answering your phone calls, and our management is busy dealing with trying to keep everything and everybody together, and much of the rest of the dev team is a little nervous to talk directly to the dealers. That's left your questions here in this thread woefully unanswered, and I think they deserve answers, so I'm going to try to pick up the slack. (And here's hoping my bosses don't get too unhappy that I'm talking directly to you!)
And for the record: I'm a programmer. My degree is in Computer Science, not Marketing or Sales, so please take what I say with a grain of salt: It hasn't been filtered to be a good sound bite; it hasn't been filtered to be a "safe" answer that is solely designed to keep you from being worried; but what I say will be true and honest. Please be patient and kind with me, and in exchange, I'll be truthful and honest with you.
Yes, our phone lines were maxed out there for a while. We have a huge number of incoming phone lines, and last week every one was consumed by a dealer or reseller calling us. If you have trouble with the phone, either try calling again or send an e-mail. We're doing our best to keep up with you, and our Client Services staff has been staying here until the wee hours of the morning to reply to every e-mail we get.
Most of our devs and client services people were pulling 12- and 14- and 16-hour days last week. I was working until 11:30 on Saturday night fixing bugs in the export system. We had dozens of people who worked through the weekend. We even had one developer (one of the IOL2GO guys) who literally fell asleep at his keyboard on Saturday after working all night Friday night and all day Saturday. So we really are working on it; we're a little more normal here now, but nobody's resting until the major issues are all resolved.
I respectfully disagree; our management made some mistakes a few years ago at the start of the IOL 2 project, but they've done very well preparing this last year. IOL 2 is a big change, the biggest change in HomeNet's history, and the fact that things are starting to get back to normal so soon for many of you is proof of that. This launch was painful for all of us --- several of our wives haven't seen us in weeks --- but I think this launch was about as smooth as it could have been, given what it was.
If you're still having problems --- any kind of problems --- believe me that we want to know about them. Call Client Services and get tickets filed so those tickets get to us here in development so we can fix it! We have a lot of tickets now, but that won't always be the case, and no defect is so small that it's not worthy of attention. If you're really really stuck, ask me with a private message here or a note on Twitter, and I'll see what I can do for you.
I was personally involved with fixing the Cobalt export over the last few days. Is it working for you now?
That definitely sounds like a bug. I recall one of our QA people bumping into something about that recently, but I'm not sure what came of that. Did you call Client Services and get a ticket filed? Our bugfix process requires a formal ticket filed somewhere so we can track bugs and requests and make sure the work winds up on the right dev's desk, so if you didn't file a ticket, please call Client Services and get one filed.
------------
*gulp*... And now it's time to tackle some of Joe Pistell's questions and comments...
Not sure what you're asking, but we did do focus groups with dealers, resellers, and some of our partners. We didn't do as many focus groups as we wanted to, but we didn't ignore you guys either. I believe the business folks want to do more focus groups in the coming months.
But our goal was to make sure that IOL 2 was close enough in appearance and usability to IOL 1 that you guys would be okay with how it turned out without having to be asked. I'm not sure we met that goal, but we tried.
The beta-test question is one of the questions we've gotten asked the most. And, well, we wanted to --- believe me, I would have killed to be able to have a good beta program --- but for technical reasons, it was nearly impossible. We did run a beta period with some of our users where we could, starting back around last June, and an expanded beta in August.
But we couldn't just select specific dealers to be included because of all the data interconnects: X dealer wants to be a part of the beta, but they have contracts with Y reseller, so Y reseller would have to be part of the beta, but for them to be part of the beta and have it work right most or all of their customers would have to be part of it as well, and for one of their customers Z to be part of it, Q reseller would have to be, and it just spirals outward consuming dealer after dealer and partner after partner until you have nearly every one of our customers involved in it in some way. So selectively moving dealers over would have resulted in almost all of you being moved over, which really isn't much different than just going live, which is what our management finally decided we'd do anyway when the programming seemed to be "done." I wish it could've gone a different way, but we didn't have much choice: It was all or nothing.
We did it because IOL 1 had reached the end of its lifespan. IOL 1 was originally a really simple product, designed for simple needs. We'd grown IOL 1 beyond the point where any of our developers thought it was possible to grow it, but there remained hard technical limitations in its original design that we knew could never be overcome, limitations that prevented us from doing things you guys wanted us to do. Why couldn't you sort by style matches on the list page? IOL 1 was too limited for us to be able to find a way to make that work. Why couldn't you have this feature, or this bugfix? The design just couldn't do it. You can add as many motors and fenders as you want to a bicycle, but no matter how far you go with those upgrades, you'll never turn that bicycle into a Porsche.
IOL 2 isn't a mere "update," like a lot of our sales and marketing types are saying: It's brand-new from the ground up, designed with a solid foundation to be able to grow with your requests, a foundation that IOL 1 never had and never could have. It's designed to look and feel a bit like IOL 1, but under the hood, it's all new. IOL 1 *worked*, but it wasn't well-designed, and the whole company knew its limitations were hurting us and hurting you too.
Because IOL 2 really is brand-new, there are more than a few growing pains involved in moving everybody to it. Yes, it's slow, but the foundation is now there for us to be able to make it not just fast again but faster than IOL 1 ever was. Yes, there are places where IOL 2 doesn't do exactly what IOL 1 did, but we're trying to make it fit those old rules as quickly as we can. Yes, it's not tablet-friendly, but the foundation is there so we can actually make it tablet-friendly --- IOL 1 could never have become tablet-friendly no matter how hard we tried. IOL 2 is designed so that we can *respond* to your requests, so that we can fix things you don't like and add new features you've been wanting, so that we're not stuck and have to tell you "no, we can't do that."
So now there's some time getting us all out of the woods, but once we're out, we can all move forward. I'm very much looking forward to writing the code for some things that have been your feature requests for years and years now, for things that will smooth out your workflow, and for new ideas that could help you manage and promote your inventory in ways you never realized were possible. I believe in this project, and I think long-term, it eventually *will* help you sell more cars. We have a long list of new stuff to build that you've been asking for --- proper tablet support included. But we have to finish making IOL 2 fully *work* for you guys first.
If you have any further trouble, keep making sure we know about it. We all won't rest until the phone calls stop coming in.
------------
Anyway, I hope my answers help assuage your fears. We're working really hard here to make IOL 2 not only not *suck* but actually be *good*. If you guys have any questions that I could answer, feel free to ask them here and I'll try my best. In the interim, I have bugs to fix, so if you don't see me here for a day or two, that's what I'm doing.
Last edited:
- May 1, 2005
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Yeah - smart marketing on Dominions part. Know when the competition is venerable and go for the kill. Ouch! But that's just good marketing.
- May 1, 2005
- 4,603
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Sean, thanks for jumping in to help clarify some issues about HomeNet. I believe I speak for the community when I say it's great to hear from someone at HomeNet - much appreciated.
I've been debating for a long time whether or not to open an account here. But I think HomeNet is doing itself a disservice by not communicating here, and I think we need to fix that.
That said, my voice isn't official: I'm a programmer, not management, and I'm not a PR guy. But I also believe in what we've built: IOL 2 has some serious growing pains right now, but its foundation is incredibly strong --- a quality code base that makes this software engineer proud --- and it can and will do well by all of us if we give it half a chance. I and twenty other programmers wouldn't have spent three years of our lives on it otherwise.
That said, my voice isn't official: I'm a programmer, not management, and I'm not a PR guy. But I also believe in what we've built: IOL 2 has some serious growing pains right now, but its foundation is incredibly strong --- a quality code base that makes this software engineer proud --- and it can and will do well by all of us if we give it half a chance. I and twenty other programmers wouldn't have spent three years of our lives on it otherwise.
- May 3, 2012
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- Dan
HomeNet is the Industry Leader and will remain the Industry Leader. This will be proven by IOL2 which will exceed expectations and regain its dominance in the market. I have been utilizing IOL1 for 6 years and am amazed by the power of IOL2.
- Apr 7, 2009
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Please list them so that I may stop shaking my head and muttering to myself as I walk about the halls...
Joe,
I totally agree with you, the last two weeks has been terrible. As a HomeNet reseller it has been very very stressful. I’ve just finished another week of over 80 hours working inside WebIOL 2.0 to make sure my dealers’ inventory is correct. We basically had to do double the work because WebIOL wasn’t updating based on the information in the IOL2Go device. We had to correct vehicle photos out of order, photo overlays missing or on the wrong photos, and more. HomeNet should have done a million things differently and hopefully they’ve learn from their mistakes. They need to form a Dealer and Reseller Council to guide them on future features and upgrades. Their sister company VIN Solutions does a lot of the right things and HomeNet needs to attend the VIN Solutions seminars and learn valuable lessons on customer service. They should have Beta tested the hell out of the new platform before launching it and only launched it in select areas to measure the situation and make changes if needed.
This isn’t my first go around with a platform upgrade/change/rewrite and the problems created by it. A well known Data Collection company has changed their platform many times over the last ten years and none were too smooth, so these things happen. I’ve only had a relationship with HomeNet for 2 years and this is my first experience with HomeNet rewriting their website and migrating customers to it, but BELIEVE me it happens to all Data Collection Companies. In my ten years with another company, I’ve seen inventory go missing, miles broadcasted as the selling price, ACV broadcasted as the selling price, exports that didn’t run, DMS polling that didn’t run, features that worked in 1.0 but no longer available in 2.0, SLOWER than watching grass grow, and so on. So I can only look forward to what WebIOL 2.0 has to offer and I’ll extend that to over what it can offer other data collection companies.
1. Real-time updates to AutoTrader.com – speed is everyone’s goal from adding inventory to removing cars to changing sales prices to adding vehicle comments. This is HUGE!!!! To get real-time updates to ATC has been the goal for thousands of Dealership for over ten years and it might be a reality soon. This is worth all the “marbles”!
2. Forced Exports to website companies that are realized within 60 minutes or less.
Dealer.com – I added a vehicle to Dealer.com’s website within one hour of forcing the export, along with some vehicle comments and sale prices
First in Class Websites – I forced an export and it added fresh inventory to the website within 6 minutes
Clickmotive, JS Marketing, TK Carsites, and many other website companies that use HomeNet’s platform to source their inventory pages may get the same benefit
3. Chrome Data Options – today’s vehicles have Ford’s Sync Systems, Blind Spot Monitoring Systems, Panoramic Vista Roofs, Back-Lit Door Sills, Vision Packages, MyKey System, Power Rear Sunshade, “301B Rapid Spec Order Code –inc: Heated/Cooled perforated leather 10-way power front bucket seats w/driver seat memory and heated 60/40 split folding rear seats”, Rear View Camera with top view, Dual Screen Entertainment System, Performance Packages with brake upgrades and suspension upgrades, and more. A lot of Data Collection companies either use basic or cheap VIN decoders to decode their vehicles and you end up with basic options like these: Power Sunroof, Power Windows, Aluminum Wheels, Leather Seats, Heated Seat(s), Backup Sensor System, and more. Chrome Data uses almost one-2-one options descriptions. What are you trying to do online? I want to build value with enriched options and describe the vehicle like the manufacturer decided to describe the vehicle when it was brand new. I’m forced to make option updates based on the current options as it sits as a pre-owned car, but it hasn’t been a big deal to adjust the Chrome Options.
Example of Basic descriptions versus Enriched Descriptions:
Basic Option: Chrome Data Option:
Chrome wheels 19" chrome-clad aluminum wheels
Leather Interior Light Stone Perforated Leather Seat Trim
????? Vision Package Blind Spot Information System
(BLIS) w/cross-traffic alert, rain sensing wipers
Power Sunroof Panoramic Vista Roof
Navigation System Voice Activated Navigation System
Or
Navigation system w/8" full VGA high resolution color display memory voice recognition interface dial Zagat survey multi-view rear camera
Polished Aluminum Wheels 22” Polished Aluminum Wheels
????? MyKey system -inc: top speed limiter audio volume limiter early low fuel warning programmable speed alert chimes Beltminder w/audio mute
DVD Entertainment System DVD rear entertainment system -inc: 9" motorized color full VGA display, remote control
Here are real live examples of cars listed on AutoTrader.com:
Dominion Dealer Solutions (aka Dealer Specialties or DDS) data collected car:
Cars for Sale: 2010 Ford Taurus Limited in Xenia, OH 45385: Sedan Details - 320811542 - AutoTrader.com
Ford’s Window sticker for the DDS car:
http://fordlabels.webview.biz/webviewhybrid/WindowSticker.aspx?vin=1FAHP2FW2AG143343
HomeNet Automotive data collected car on a similar vehicle:
Cars for Sale: 2010 Ford Taurus Limited in Cincinnati, OH 45245: Sedan Details - 319735987 - AutoTrader.com
Ford’s Window sticker for the HomeNet Taurus:
http://fordlabels.webview.biz/webviewhybrid/WindowSticker.aspx?vin=1FAHP2FW0AG161548
I’ve studied/researched many other data collection companies out there and most do the same basic vehicle option descriptions. Believe me it’s 100x easier to for a professional data collector to punch in a car with basic options; power windows, power locks, power mirrors, and so on; but that’s so 1990s. It’s 2012 and you should expect more from your data collection company.
In closing, HomeNet’s recent disaster will go down in history as the “Dark Days of HomeNet”, but some data collection companies have updated their backend 4 times or more times in 10 years and most were not for the better. If you release a new inventory management platform and within a year or two you need to replace it, I think you didn’t do it right the first time. HomeNet’s 1.0 was around for a long time and I’m guessing 2.0 will be too. If you’re one of those other data collection companies that have moved from platform 0.1 to 1.0 to 2.0 to 2.5 to 3.0 to 4.0, then you might be doing something very wrong that is forcing you to switch so much. HomeNet’s WebIOL isn’t flashy and it doesn’t have ten pie charts to help you monitor your inventory and it doesn’t have flashing little buttons, what it does have is straight forward inventory control that allows users to modify their inventory, control their inventory, control their exports, force a data export to get real-time updates to your website, and more. A lot of other data collection companies can’t touch that (unless you have a website build by your data collection company, which excludes most major website companies except for a few companies and one of those being owned by Cox/AutoTrader.com)
This is my two cents and 10 years of history in the data collection business with two companies, Dealer Specialties and now with HomeNet Automotive. And hopefully the challenges we currently face will go away quickly and we can get on with it.
I totally agree with you, the last two weeks has been terrible. As a HomeNet reseller it has been very very stressful. I’ve just finished another week of over 80 hours working inside WebIOL 2.0 to make sure my dealers’ inventory is correct. We basically had to do double the work because WebIOL wasn’t updating based on the information in the IOL2Go device. We had to correct vehicle photos out of order, photo overlays missing or on the wrong photos, and more. HomeNet should have done a million things differently and hopefully they’ve learn from their mistakes. They need to form a Dealer and Reseller Council to guide them on future features and upgrades. Their sister company VIN Solutions does a lot of the right things and HomeNet needs to attend the VIN Solutions seminars and learn valuable lessons on customer service. They should have Beta tested the hell out of the new platform before launching it and only launched it in select areas to measure the situation and make changes if needed.
This isn’t my first go around with a platform upgrade/change/rewrite and the problems created by it. A well known Data Collection company has changed their platform many times over the last ten years and none were too smooth, so these things happen. I’ve only had a relationship with HomeNet for 2 years and this is my first experience with HomeNet rewriting their website and migrating customers to it, but BELIEVE me it happens to all Data Collection Companies. In my ten years with another company, I’ve seen inventory go missing, miles broadcasted as the selling price, ACV broadcasted as the selling price, exports that didn’t run, DMS polling that didn’t run, features that worked in 1.0 but no longer available in 2.0, SLOWER than watching grass grow, and so on. So I can only look forward to what WebIOL 2.0 has to offer and I’ll extend that to over what it can offer other data collection companies.
1. Real-time updates to AutoTrader.com – speed is everyone’s goal from adding inventory to removing cars to changing sales prices to adding vehicle comments. This is HUGE!!!! To get real-time updates to ATC has been the goal for thousands of Dealership for over ten years and it might be a reality soon. This is worth all the “marbles”!
2. Forced Exports to website companies that are realized within 60 minutes or less.
Dealer.com – I added a vehicle to Dealer.com’s website within one hour of forcing the export, along with some vehicle comments and sale prices
First in Class Websites – I forced an export and it added fresh inventory to the website within 6 minutes
Clickmotive, JS Marketing, TK Carsites, and many other website companies that use HomeNet’s platform to source their inventory pages may get the same benefit
3. Chrome Data Options – today’s vehicles have Ford’s Sync Systems, Blind Spot Monitoring Systems, Panoramic Vista Roofs, Back-Lit Door Sills, Vision Packages, MyKey System, Power Rear Sunshade, “301B Rapid Spec Order Code –inc: Heated/Cooled perforated leather 10-way power front bucket seats w/driver seat memory and heated 60/40 split folding rear seats”, Rear View Camera with top view, Dual Screen Entertainment System, Performance Packages with brake upgrades and suspension upgrades, and more. A lot of Data Collection companies either use basic or cheap VIN decoders to decode their vehicles and you end up with basic options like these: Power Sunroof, Power Windows, Aluminum Wheels, Leather Seats, Heated Seat(s), Backup Sensor System, and more. Chrome Data uses almost one-2-one options descriptions. What are you trying to do online? I want to build value with enriched options and describe the vehicle like the manufacturer decided to describe the vehicle when it was brand new. I’m forced to make option updates based on the current options as it sits as a pre-owned car, but it hasn’t been a big deal to adjust the Chrome Options.
Example of Basic descriptions versus Enriched Descriptions:
Basic Option: Chrome Data Option:
Chrome wheels 19" chrome-clad aluminum wheels
Leather Interior Light Stone Perforated Leather Seat Trim
????? Vision Package Blind Spot Information System
(BLIS) w/cross-traffic alert, rain sensing wipers
Power Sunroof Panoramic Vista Roof
Navigation System Voice Activated Navigation System
Or
Navigation system w/8" full VGA high resolution color display memory voice recognition interface dial Zagat survey multi-view rear camera
Polished Aluminum Wheels 22” Polished Aluminum Wheels
????? MyKey system -inc: top speed limiter audio volume limiter early low fuel warning programmable speed alert chimes Beltminder w/audio mute
DVD Entertainment System DVD rear entertainment system -inc: 9" motorized color full VGA display, remote control
Here are real live examples of cars listed on AutoTrader.com:
Dominion Dealer Solutions (aka Dealer Specialties or DDS) data collected car:
Cars for Sale: 2010 Ford Taurus Limited in Xenia, OH 45385: Sedan Details - 320811542 - AutoTrader.com
Ford’s Window sticker for the DDS car:
http://fordlabels.webview.biz/webviewhybrid/WindowSticker.aspx?vin=1FAHP2FW2AG143343
HomeNet Automotive data collected car on a similar vehicle:
Cars for Sale: 2010 Ford Taurus Limited in Cincinnati, OH 45245: Sedan Details - 319735987 - AutoTrader.com
Ford’s Window sticker for the HomeNet Taurus:
http://fordlabels.webview.biz/webviewhybrid/WindowSticker.aspx?vin=1FAHP2FW0AG161548
I’ve studied/researched many other data collection companies out there and most do the same basic vehicle option descriptions. Believe me it’s 100x easier to for a professional data collector to punch in a car with basic options; power windows, power locks, power mirrors, and so on; but that’s so 1990s. It’s 2012 and you should expect more from your data collection company.
In closing, HomeNet’s recent disaster will go down in history as the “Dark Days of HomeNet”, but some data collection companies have updated their backend 4 times or more times in 10 years and most were not for the better. If you release a new inventory management platform and within a year or two you need to replace it, I think you didn’t do it right the first time. HomeNet’s 1.0 was around for a long time and I’m guessing 2.0 will be too. If you’re one of those other data collection companies that have moved from platform 0.1 to 1.0 to 2.0 to 2.5 to 3.0 to 4.0, then you might be doing something very wrong that is forcing you to switch so much. HomeNet’s WebIOL isn’t flashy and it doesn’t have ten pie charts to help you monitor your inventory and it doesn’t have flashing little buttons, what it does have is straight forward inventory control that allows users to modify their inventory, control their inventory, control their exports, force a data export to get real-time updates to your website, and more. A lot of other data collection companies can’t touch that (unless you have a website build by your data collection company, which excludes most major website companies except for a few companies and one of those being owned by Cox/AutoTrader.com)
This is my two cents and 10 years of history in the data collection business with two companies, Dealer Specialties and now with HomeNet Automotive. And hopefully the challenges we currently face will go away quickly and we can get on with it.
