@Greg_Gifford just to be clear, you're convinced there is a grand scheme from Google to direct people away from success by planting misinformation around their core function of Search? What then are you and other SEO professional basing their strategy around? I listened to your call with DEP last week because I'm hoping that someone is taking the time to understand Google's updates and feed it back to me so I don't have to get in the weeds. What you're saying is you've learned to navigate and unlock SEO through alternate paths? I mean, I'm not saying Google is to be trusted, i.e. https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-judge-rules-google-broke-antitrust-law-search-case-2024-08-05/ but I'm just questioning the purposeful planting of BS.
Listing of all the Dealership Website Hosting Companies
- Thread starter Alex Snyder
- Start date
@Greg_Gifford just to be clear, you're convinced there is a grand scheme from Google to direct people away from success by planting misinformation around their core function of Search? What then are you and other SEO professional basing their strategy around? I listened to your call with DEP last week because I'm hoping that someone is taking the time to understand Google's updates and feed it back to me so I don't have to get in the weeds. What you're saying is you've learned to navigate and unlock SEO through alternate paths? I mean, I'm not saying Google is to be trusted, i.e. https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-judge-rules-google-broke-antitrust-law-search-case-2024-08-05/ but I'm just questioning the purposeful planting of BS.
The signal from measuring post click site website performance seems like a super obvious feedback loop to add into the ranking equation to me. A poor site rendering process that discourages further engagement and leads to a closed window event is against the primary aim to produce the best result possible which costs them $. Keep in mind this is while they deal with their first real threat in decades and need to improve their results.
I am not defending Google out of some deep loyalty or something, I spent 6-7 years working to get 1st party data into their customer match offering and fought through hell to finally do so. I just don't see why anyone would think this is obviously a conspiracy, if you have a logical reason why I am all ears.
Now I can see from a traditional SEO perspective optimizing for on page website performance requires a new skillset which some people may need to acquire. It's also something that falls more in the provider/developer arena, this means SEO vendors won't be able to tackle as readily as other commonplace issues.
I am not defending Google out of some deep loyalty or something, I spent 6-7 years working to get 1st party data into their customer match offering and fought through hell to finally do so. I just don't see why anyone would think this is obviously a conspiracy, if you have a logical reason why I am all ears.
Now I can see from a traditional SEO perspective optimizing for on page website performance requires a new skillset which some people may need to acquire. It's also something that falls more in the provider/developer arena, this means SEO vendors won't be able to tackle as readily as other commonplace issues.
It's not a conspiracy theory.
It's obvious Google wants "certain" people and companies to succeed. (here! I added the conspiracy theory in because it's not). Obviously google doesn't want "bad actors" to succeed. (ooops, I did it again).
Without the jokes. Google wants legit companies to succeed and not have scammy ones cheat at ranking. Think Link Farms. today AI generated content farms.
So, google has always posted "guidelines" and someone recently posted internal documents proving there is more going on.
The do no evil company is all about $$$ ad revenue. they create products and protect their products to ensure that ad revenue keeps coming in.
1. it is legit. Block abusers and protect revenue generation. Guidelines can't be 100% complete and thorough or else they will get abused because some one is smart and figured out a loop whole. So, I don't find google documentation as the last word. They aren't
2. Your user data and browser habits. If you trust Google is doing the right thing. Let's agree to disagree and please be civil.
3. Google creates useful products because of Number 1. Think the translation service. Gmail ... in a way.
4. Google creates useful products because of Number 2. Chrome is the primary, then Gmaps and then Gmail. If you want to disagree lets agree to disagree.
It's not a conspiracy theory that a company wants to make a profit off services and products that they created. Auto Manufacturers are getting into this game too. Just wait until Car insurance will become surge pricing based.
SEO companies spend time tuning web code. Like a car tuner tweaks air flow and gas ratios and what not. So these SEO companies do better than hobbyists or small shop developers. I tend to pick on them because it's like vin etching on a window. Some things are a little overboard on what they do and a hobbyist should try doing things first before dropping cash.
Google isn't going to tell you how to rank perfectly - they left guidelines that may or may not be true. Remember they deal with people who abuse the system ...
Oh ... why is that a problem? What's wrong with people nailing SEO 1000% ? Seriously? Why won't google just publish their alogrythm?
Why not!!!
You as a customer would know exactly what you are doing and getting. SEO companies could all be equal basically.
So let's examine a recent "conspiracy theory" a friend dropped on me. (vote for who you want I give a sh!t).
Hey! Google is censoring "Trump Rallies". I was like BS ... why be so obvious, you know!
So I did a search. I remember the image bar - 2 images for Trump 3 for Harris.
So, let's think about this. There isn't an illegal activity or such. so no need to censor.
so what is going on?
1. harris is more recent in topics and probably was trending so that makes sense.
2. google uses your search history, browsing and shopping history to help predict searches to provide quicker response times. So my buddy should only have Trump images.
A company like google has lots of power in what it shows to you. Your freedom of choice is limited by what returned as a result set.
Everything you get served to you is censored for better or worse. It's censored and thus your freedom of choice is gone.
TLDR;
1. Google isn't giving anybody the secret sauce formula because it's profit is all it cares for.
2. A SEO company is like a car tuner. if you can tune your car with your pc and open source software then go for it. Otherwise trust a professional.
3. if you trust google, I have a bridge for sale - hit me up!
Funny Note:
I tried to bribe yahoo Japan to list my friend's company with $100 each melons. They finally got the hint and I still tried to send them the melons but they declined. This is back when Yahoo was grey and google was still in junior high school ??
It's obvious Google wants "certain" people and companies to succeed. (here! I added the conspiracy theory in because it's not). Obviously google doesn't want "bad actors" to succeed. (ooops, I did it again).
Without the jokes. Google wants legit companies to succeed and not have scammy ones cheat at ranking. Think Link Farms. today AI generated content farms.
So, google has always posted "guidelines" and someone recently posted internal documents proving there is more going on.
The do no evil company is all about $$$ ad revenue. they create products and protect their products to ensure that ad revenue keeps coming in.
1. it is legit. Block abusers and protect revenue generation. Guidelines can't be 100% complete and thorough or else they will get abused because some one is smart and figured out a loop whole. So, I don't find google documentation as the last word. They aren't
2. Your user data and browser habits. If you trust Google is doing the right thing. Let's agree to disagree and please be civil.
3. Google creates useful products because of Number 1. Think the translation service. Gmail ... in a way.
4. Google creates useful products because of Number 2. Chrome is the primary, then Gmaps and then Gmail. If you want to disagree lets agree to disagree.
It's not a conspiracy theory that a company wants to make a profit off services and products that they created. Auto Manufacturers are getting into this game too. Just wait until Car insurance will become surge pricing based.
SEO companies spend time tuning web code. Like a car tuner tweaks air flow and gas ratios and what not. So these SEO companies do better than hobbyists or small shop developers. I tend to pick on them because it's like vin etching on a window. Some things are a little overboard on what they do and a hobbyist should try doing things first before dropping cash.
Google isn't going to tell you how to rank perfectly - they left guidelines that may or may not be true. Remember they deal with people who abuse the system ...
Oh ... why is that a problem? What's wrong with people nailing SEO 1000% ? Seriously? Why won't google just publish their alogrythm?
Why not!!!
You as a customer would know exactly what you are doing and getting. SEO companies could all be equal basically.
So let's examine a recent "conspiracy theory" a friend dropped on me. (vote for who you want I give a sh!t).
Hey! Google is censoring "Trump Rallies". I was like BS ... why be so obvious, you know!
So I did a search. I remember the image bar - 2 images for Trump 3 for Harris.
So, let's think about this. There isn't an illegal activity or such. so no need to censor.
so what is going on?
1. harris is more recent in topics and probably was trending so that makes sense.
2. google uses your search history, browsing and shopping history to help predict searches to provide quicker response times. So my buddy should only have Trump images.
A company like google has lots of power in what it shows to you. Your freedom of choice is limited by what returned as a result set.
Everything you get served to you is censored for better or worse. It's censored and thus your freedom of choice is gone.
TLDR;
1. Google isn't giving anybody the secret sauce formula because it's profit is all it cares for.
2. A SEO company is like a car tuner. if you can tune your car with your pc and open source software then go for it. Otherwise trust a professional.
3. if you trust google, I have a bridge for sale - hit me up!
Funny Note:
I tried to bribe yahoo Japan to list my friend's company with $100 each melons. They finally got the hint and I still tried to send them the melons but they declined. This is back when Yahoo was grey and google was still in junior high school ??
- Aug 1, 2024
- 2
- 0
- Awards
- 1
- First Name
- Joe
Thanks for the feedback, Greg. For the record, I wasn't sharing my opinion on the matter, I was restating what Mueller has stated publicly.
*The key clarification for me is to say that CWV is not the single factor in determining page rank, of course. A "used BMW" dealer in Atlanta should always outrank a "Nissan" dealer in Atlanta when a user is searching for "used BMWs Atlanta," regardless of who's passing CWV or not, of course.
From Mueller (Article link: https://www.searchenginejournal.com/ranking-factors/core-web-vitals/Article link: Are Core Web Vitals A Ranking Factor?):
"In 2021, Google hosted a half-hour 'Ask me anything' session on Web Vitals. During the AMA, someone asked if page experience is a binary ranking factor.
Philip Walton, a Google engineer working on web performance, answered that Web Vitals were mostly not a binary ranking factor.
During the AMA, John Mueller, Google Search Advocate, confirmed that while CWV affects rankings, relevance also plays a strong role. If website A is faster than website B, but B is more relevant to the search user’s query, website B would still outrank A.
Mueller also noted that websites moving from 'needs improvement' to 'good' may see ranking improvements. But websites that are already good and improve speed by a millisecond or two may not see ranking changes."
But the brutal truth is most of the Automotive CWV failures can't be solved with a millisecond or two improvement. If only...
Another 25-year SEO and regular contributor for Search Engine Journal, Roger Montti, posted the following (Article link: CWV & Google Page Experience Ranking Factor Updated):
"While the influence of the Page Experience Ranking Factor may be on the lower side [for CWV], it’s still important for reasons outside of algorithms like improving conversions and ad clicks."
For every second of page speed load time you're losing 20% conversions and you're see real-world performance data with CWV, not simulated lab data.
We're living this reality every day at Overfuel. We've delivered the foundational tech that passes CWV and now the struggle is to convince dealers to avoid 3rd-party widgets causing performance failure with little to no upside.
Here's my personal opinion: Any dealer spending a dime on local SEO content publishing (and we sell this offering at Overfuel), Google Ads, and other marketing tactics before deploying a website foundation that passes CWV is throwing good money after bad. Passing CWV is a best practice...unfortunately, just not in Automotive.
- May 1, 2009
- 73
- 83
- Awards
- 4
- First Name
- Greg
I know John Mueller - and other bigwigs at Google (benefits of speaking at SEO conferences all over the world for over a decade) - and he and several others have flat out said that google only penalizes you for a slow site if you're in the bottom 20% in your vertical. Google knows that different verticals work differently - so car dealer sites will inherently be slower, but not penalized compared to e-commerce sites or plastic surgeons, etc...
that for every second of time you lose 20% conversions is inaccurate, because of this exact thing. that was a stat that came from Amazon on its own site - it absolutely doesn't apply to anyone else but Amazon...
but really, TL
R - CWV doesn't matter unless yours are REALLY bad - and for car dealers, even thinking about them is probably a bad idea, because with the same shitty content that everyone else has, dealers won't rank no matter how good their CWV scores are. In today's world, if you don't have stellar content, nothing else matters
that for every second of time you lose 20% conversions is inaccurate, because of this exact thing. that was a stat that came from Amazon on its own site - it absolutely doesn't apply to anyone else but Amazon...
but really, TL
R - CWV doesn't matter unless yours are REALLY bad - and for car dealers, even thinking about them is probably a bad idea, because with the same shitty content that everyone else has, dealers won't rank no matter how good their CWV scores are. In today's world, if you don't have stellar content, nothing else matters
For Blogs and such content and ever green content does most definitely build authority ranking.
Use of the H2 tag as in a question/answer format also helps.
But this is cars.
I still think lots of the seo for region of the country that you live probably matters very little. I keep using the Smallville, State Chevy as an example. If you don't have a competing Chevy dealer within that town then you will obviously rank way better than A Chevy Dealer in Atlanta.
This mentality also applies for page loading speeds. How badly do customers in your surrounding area are willing to wait for the page to load.
Of course, we are dealing with OEM style dealerships. IF you are competing at the used car level and much smaller, then you will need to fight the SEO battle.
I don't say this often but the more I think of it, getting a professional opinion for your particular website.
This might be a good metric to consider.
If you are recommending customers to use OEM service centers for repairs then most likely you should hire an SEO expert.
Use of the H2 tag as in a question/answer format also helps.
But this is cars.
I still think lots of the seo for region of the country that you live probably matters very little. I keep using the Smallville, State Chevy as an example. If you don't have a competing Chevy dealer within that town then you will obviously rank way better than A Chevy Dealer in Atlanta.
This mentality also applies for page loading speeds. How badly do customers in your surrounding area are willing to wait for the page to load.
Of course, we are dealing with OEM style dealerships. IF you are competing at the used car level and much smaller, then you will need to fight the SEO battle.
I don't say this often but the more I think of it, getting a professional opinion for your particular website.
This might be a good metric to consider.
If you are recommending customers to use OEM service centers for repairs then most likely you should hire an SEO expert.
