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What ways could dealers be more transparent, IDEAS anyone?

Isn't One Price an example of "innovation?" I wasn't responding to you personally but am trying to get a handle on exactly what is being pitched here. Innovation is a bit broad.

Is "transparency" supposed to be an example of innovation and forward thinking? What exactly is being pitched here under the guise of "innovation?" Or is it just anything that is different from the "old days" from people who don't even know what the "old days" was like? They find a shiny new object only to discover its actually an antique. They then go into denial.

To anecdotes from the past, my two uncles who were in the business of making horse collars - "We don't need to worry about those cars. They scare they horses and will never catch on."

Henry Ford - "If I'd listened to customers I'd have tried to create a faster horse that ate less."

Where's the real innovation?
 
Your arguments probably sound a lot like executives in the taxi industry where innovative companies like Uber and Lyft were introduced. They refused to change their way of thinking and doing business because 'that's always how it's been done' and 'why change for the market'. Now most major city taxi companies are sitting on a 65%-80% decline in business.

I think his point is that his arguments also sound a lot like New Coke, where they thought that their product had to change to adapt to the times and they branded the hell out of this "innovative" new idea, right before it fell flat on it's face.

Henry Ford - "If I'd listened to customers I'd have tried to create a faster horse that ate less."

This quote is as full of BS as the Paul Walker quote "If one day the speed kills me, do not cry because I was smiling." or "Be the change you wish to see in the world".
Sometimes we make up quotes for people because we think they would have said it.
 
I think his point is that his arguments also sound a lot like New Coke, where they thought that their product had to change to adapt to the times and they branded the hell out of this "innovative" new idea, right before it fell flat on it's face.



This quote is as full of BS as the Paul Walker quote "If one day the speed kills me, do not cry because I was smiling." or "Be the change you wish to see in the world".
Sometimes we make up quotes for people because we think they would have said it.
I think his point is that his arguments also sound a lot like New Coke, where they thought that their product had to change to adapt to the times and they branded the hell out of this "innovative" new idea, right before it fell flat on it's face.



This quote is as full of BS as the Paul Walker quote "If one day the speed kills me, do not cry because I was smiling." or "Be the change you wish to see in the world".
Sometimes we make up quotes for people because we think they would have said it.
I am just going to stay "less transparent" as to pre-owned in an effort to feed my family. I will just have to believe Ole Henry's most quoted....."Whether I believe I can or I cant....Im right either way!"
 
What exactly is being pitched here under the guise of "innovation?" Or is it just anything that is different from the "old days" from people who don't even know what the "old days" was like? They find a shiny new object only to discover its actually an antique. They then go into denial.

Mr. Ruggles,

It may be your conversational style, or maybe it is just me, but your posts appear to be very defensive. What I can't figure out is what exactly you are trying to defend and why.

You've defended a strict literal interpretation of an admittedly buzzy term that many are misusing according to Webster's. I get that. I've been plagued by the ubiquitous term "reputation management" for the last 5 years. Defining the terms is an important part of making sure that multiple parties leave a discussion with the same understanding of a topic. Is that what is bothering you? Refuting the expansion of the term "transparency" to refer to more than a strict literal definition seems like a strange cause to champion here.

You've asked a few times now "what exactly is being sold in this particular discussion." Is that what is bothering you? From my perspective, nothing is being sold, ideas are being exchanged, but that is par for the course for DealerRefresh. In fact, that has been the M.O. of this community since Apr of 2009. I'd respectfully suggest that you are applying a similarly fuzzy definition to "selling" that you seem to be so adamantly opposed to for the term "transparency."

I'm not trying to attack you, I'm honestly trying to understand what you are so eagerly defending. "Change", "innovation", "old days", "shiny objects"... maybe all of those terms need to be defined here too.

Last thought:

As a dealer, its about getting the deal and making gross profit, not about saving the world, feeding all the hungry children, etc.

Every business owner is interested in making a decent profit, but the automotive industry seems to have a disproportionate number of owners that ARE interested in the needs of their local community. I think this is something to be celebrated.
 
Is this where we compare credentials? I can tell you for a fact that with rare exception, auto retail has always been a buyers market. Exceptions would be when demand exceeds supply. How many of those do you recall? What's your point? State your case. You either want to charge everyone about the same, want to do One Price, or have something else in mind. But there is one thing you should get out of your mind. Consumers today have more information, but know less than in decades past. If you assume every consumer contacting you "knows" everything, you sound like every green pea who ever went to the desk with a deal. And if you think that's the basis for a sound retail strategy, I say, "Go for it." Your competitors will love you for it.

Why are there people in forums like this telling others how they should retail cars? What's in it for them? Why wouldn't people be working on finding their next buyer? Having vendors arguing about the advice they give to dealers is complete waste of time. Or is this a forum where the perceived winner of the competing views gets the bulk of the dealer business? I see evidence that there is a race going on to see who can be the most transparent. How in the world did that get to be the objective of auto retail. There's a simple answer to this inane question. Provide complete transparency, then come back an report in with your data. I suspect there are few here with the means to do that and would prefer the grand experiment be performed with OPM.

RE: "Are you even in the car business?" I should ask you the same thing? Are you out to sell cars or enhance auto retail's image in the minds of consumers? I would suggest that either is a full time job.

Oh! Ho! Now we are getting to the nuts and bolts of it! Tell them like it is Ruggles!
 
RE: "I am not nor do I wish to be a One Price Store. I have no idea what I have posted that gives you that indication."

That's why there was a question mark at the end of the sentence, but I wasn't just asking you.

RE: "You believe that today's customers have no more knowledge than in decades past?"
They have more information, yet know less.

RE: The purpose of this thread is to assist dealers in doing exactly what you suggest...finding their next buyer.

I think they would be served to exercise other options than engaging in mutual masturbation on blogs.

RE: "That is just stupid. I have said repeatedly in this thread that I do not believe transparency is the answer."

Then you and I are completely in tune on that issue!!!

RE: "Are you even in the car business?" I should ask you the same thing? Are you in the car business? I am in the car business. This forum is where I come to learn how to find my next customer. Are you in the retail business? If you are, how do you find your next customers? If not, when was the last time you were in the RETAIL car business? Are you out to sell cars or enhance auto retail's image in the minds of consumers? I would suggest that either is a full time job.

RE: "I am undoubtedly out to sell more cars. I enhance the image of MY RETAIL AUTO establishment each and every time that a customer comes to my store."

We share the same mindset there.

RE: "The challenge for me is getting more of them here. If you have any suggestions on how I can up my floor traffic count, I am all ears. I will listen."

Since you asked - Begin by teaching everyone who works with this simple line and concept. "You'd me interested in a new one (new or newer vehicle) wouldn't you if you could get into one for about what your paying now?" Make everyone practice this until they can deliver it perfectly five times in succession in front of a group. Learn what lending programs you have access to. It would serve you well if you had access to US Bank's leasing program that includes current year pre-owned. That means the opportunity until Dec 31 is HUGE if you know how to buy and market these kinds of cars for a payment that SHORTENS term. Find out if there are any credit unions offering a walk away balloon financing program. Until a couple of years ago when I had to get off the road I visited hundreds of credit unions and their dealerships. I don't work for USB. I don't work for any of the credit unions. I used to have an association with the company who has offered the residual based financing options through credit unions. I still moderate panels and sit on boards at their user conference. I have an interest in a software company that identifies vehicles that RBF (Residual BAsed Financing) particularly well, either in your inventory or in the general wholesale market. I am no longer day to day active but remain close friends with the people who developed the software for me. I don't write code. They do.

Once you learn how to acquire inventory and/or to identify the vehicles that RBF particularly well, you can advertise them at really compelling payments while still shortening term. Yes, you will still need to be mindful of Dale Pollak's observation of how you need to price pre-owned to get page views. And I wouldn't advise giving up his concepts as the foundation of your pre-owned business. BUT you can MAKE A MARKET if you know how to buy and message properly.

I would like to see you use RBF instead of 72 and 84 months. 36 - 48 month RBF deals allow you to get your customers back in on a regular basis. Further, it allows you to have your own used car factory, a constant stream of pre-owned inventory.

Do you have people who give rides home to customers who have their cars in your shop? Do you have a waiting room where customers can be introduced to the idea of perhaps getting a new or newer ride for about the same monthly payment? Of course, you can't do it with every customer but that message will attract a lot more prospects and you will be surprised to find how many think $100. more a month is "about the same payment." You'll hear, "I didn't know I could do that." Well, everyone can't, but we do it for many and let's go take a look how it might work out for you." After all, someone facing upkeep expense is more receptive to the idea of a newer vehicle, perhaps with a warranty or VSC, for about the same payment.

Go in the new tire business without trying to make a profit from it. What franchises do you represent? That might make a difference. Use it to build traffic and ask the question..... You'd be interested...etc. etc....

Put the message on your business cards. Ask EVERYONE. I presume you also have an online presence and people working online options. The message works well there too.

Price leader advertising still works. Add to that, "You'd be interested..... and see what happens. Consumers know less today than ever before in my 45 years. They have much more information. But its like drinking from a fire hose for them. Our biggest problem these days in retail is dealing with consumer who thinsk they know more than they do. But deep down inside, its still all about the payment.

When consumers see some really compelling price leaders many assume that all of your prices are equally as compelling. You can be transparent if you want and tell them you make a higher margin on your normal inventory. But why would you? When I say price leader I'm talking triple net cost or lower. Pick the right vehicles and you'll make it up on F&I and options. And you'll gain a reputation for great prices especially when word gets out how you put people in new vehicles for about the same payment is they paid before.

This is merely a stepping off point. I know dealers who have created another dealership under the roof of their current one just marketing and selling service customers based on this simple premise.

BTW, the ALG guide changes every two months. Learn how to use that to best advantage.

I used to consult and train with one of the world's largest privately owned Toyota dealer groups in Nagano Japan. One year I decided to have some fun. We took the phone book in a session and started cold calling. Yes, we created an artful script that was appropriate for the times. Japan had just increased its consumption tax by 2%. We called as if we were doing a survey to take back to the politicians, which was actually true. 600 sales people made 10K phone calls in 3 days. I found the stats in Japan to be the same as here if the scripts are equal. You couldn't get through to another third. Another third were either irritated that we called or we got an answering machine. The last third would talk to us. Some said they were grateful we called and thought we were doing good work. ONE IN TEN WERE IN THE MARKET FOR A CAR OR KNEW SOMEONE WHO WAS. There are people in the U.S. to teach your people phone skills. Once you learn how to do it you'll never want for prospects.

OR you could drive over to Davenport IA and follow Greg Rietz around for a while. I don't know if he knows how to send an email. I hear he's on Facebook now, so he might have made some progress. But I'll bet he still sends out cards and makes phone calls. Greg sells more cars by himself than entire dealerships. In the meantime, the forward thinkers ignore the timeless basics trying to reinvent the wheel, engaging in endless mental masturbation trying to find "the easy way enabled by technology." It ain't an either/or choice. Greg Rietz is what Joe calls a "laggard." I worship the guy.

http://www.autodealermonthly.com/ar...les-professional-of-the-month-greg-rietz.aspx

Do your F&I people know how to use late model leasing to "un-bury owners?" Until a couple of years ago when I retired from the road I loved to sit in F&I offices and work through the reject bin. There's a lot of business under your nose if you know where to look and how to turn in into gold.

Do you advertise: "We'll BUY YOUR car?" Is it on your website? Most people selling a car are doing so for a reason. I can recall a few times when the sale was to pay the kid's college tuition. I've taken the vehicle in on trade, put the customer in a new car, consolidate credit card debt, AND paid a year's tuition.

Give me a nerdy IT guy who wants to show me how to succeed by charging everyone the same margin, or a sales guy with imagination, and I'll send the nerd to my competition. If I hear my competitor is considering hiring Mark Rykess to install his no negotiation program, I'll offer to pay half of Mark's fee. And I'll send EVERY guy peddling the next big thing over there too. I'm all for my competitor being transparent. In fact, I'll be glad to teach him/her how to do it.

The deals I think are really forward thinking, I'll keep to myself. These days, those are the things I'll invest in and/or help take to market. Appraisal Lane is one those deals that has a better mousetrap. But I don't think they are available in the Midwest.

And to think, I used to charge $1500 a day, plus expenses, for this kind of advice. And here I am giving it away for free. Maybe I'm the guy who is really trying to bring up the overall image of auto retail rather than those who want to do it through increased transparency and nebulous forward thinking lacking specificity.

But I digress.........
 
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I think his point is that his arguments also sound a lot like New Coke, where they thought that their product had to change to adapt to the times and they branded the hell out of this "innovative" new idea, right before it fell flat on it's face.



This quote is as full of BS as the Paul Walker quote "If one day the speed kills me, do not cry because I was smiling." or "Be the change you wish to see in the world".
Sometimes we make up quotes for people because we think they would have said it.


So you're saying Henry never said that?
 
Never documented anywhere that I've ever been able to confirm.

"My grandmother is in orbit around Mars." I've not seen any evidence to refudiate that.

I presume you reference the following -

RE: "However, even if Ford didn’t verbalize his thoughts on customers’ ostensible inability to communicate their unmet needs for innovative products — history indicates that Henry Ford most certainly did think along those lines — and his tone-deafness to customers’ needs (explicit or implicit), had a very costly and negative impact on the Ford Motor Company’s investors, employees, and customers."

PBS once did a documentary on Henry and used the quote. I wasn't around him much so I can't say I ever heard him say it. I was tasked with writing a review of the documentary for Wards Dealer Business. Whether he did or he didn't is kind immaterial isn't it? There is still a salient point made.
 
"My grandmother is in orbit around Mars." I've not seen any evidence to refudiate that.

I presume you reference the following -

RE: "However, even if Ford didn’t verbalize his thoughts on customers’ ostensible inability to communicate their unmet needs for innovative products — history indicates that Henry Ford most certainly did think along those lines — and his tone-deafness to customers’ needs (explicit or implicit), had a very costly and negative impact on the Ford Motor Company’s investors, employees, and customers."

PBS once did a documentary on Henry and used the quote. I wasn't around him much so I can't say I ever heard him say it. I was tasked with writing a review of the documentary for Wards Dealer Business. Whether he did or he didn't is kind immaterial isn't it? There is still a salient point made.
Well it seems that Ruggles has "tongue lashed" the Canadian into submission.