9 different dealers, all use the "pretend photo booth"
9 different dealers, all cars look the same.
9 different dealers, are back to zero.

We are taking it back in-house next month. I'm adding another marketing specialist with SEO expertise on Monday and I have a contract employee that will take some of it on as well. Looking forward to having more control and a better result at a dramatically reduced expense for our 10 locations.

MB & Benz Guy said:

Drivecentric is incredible, but their new desking is the absolute worst.

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Compared to Tekion Desking, it is pretty good. Other than DC cannot push back a complete deal into Tekion DMS. The irony. But I blame Tekion for that API limitation. Hopefully DC and Tekion DMS get another level of integration which would allow us to Desk in DC. Tekion is the worst Desking DMS out there.

SavvyNick said:

Thanks Chris! I agree its price sensitive and the budget sites lack lead gen. What kind of step up do you think it takes to be worthwhile? When I was in retail I always set the bar at 300% attributable ROI for any marketing spend.

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I am an Independent Dealer.

The Independent Dealer Body is an extremely diverse group of businesses. It is not what a person would imagine until you really dig into it.

I started going to the National Convention several years ago. This is what I learned:

There are a whole lot more Buy Here Pay Here dealers then I would have ever imagined. A lot of these stored don't even have a website and they don't want or need a website. They have a process, don't want customers that are 100 miles away, and word of mouth is what really drives their business.

There are way more Independent dealers selling Salvage Title vehicles than a person could imagine. They just need a place to list their cars and that place uses 3rd party marketplaces to drive traffic to their site. SEO doesn't mean a whole lot to them because they are killing everyone's prices due to the cars being branded titles.

$99 Carsforsale websites are a hell of a lot better than people realize they are. Look at this website https://www.sarpycountymotors.com/ and run it through a comparison with some higher end sites. This site scores 100 for SEO and damn near 100 for Best Practices. This dealership consistently sells 100+ units a month in a little tiny town off of a gravel lot. Good luck explaining to this guy why he needs to pay another $X,XXX per year.

The bigger Independent dealers that are selling late model, retail, and high volume.....they are already using and justifying $1,500/month websites. This is a really crowded space and a really tough audience to sell to.

Maybe $199/mo. $149 is better.

keep seeing the same pattern: Dealers start with the $99 solutions (Carsforsale, DealerCenter basics, etc.) because they're affordable, but those sites are cookie-cutter, slow, and not built for actual SEO or conversions.

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Those dealers get a good bit of value from the $99/mo. Carsforsale.com platform. But I agree they're lacking especially for lead gen. I think that market is more sensitive to price, but if you can deliver a significant improvement in lead volume and traffic I could see some dealers opting for it. Unless there's a big step change I think many of those dealers are happy with the bang for the buck.

Welcome!

I am a smaller Independent dealer as well. I have been in business for about 15 years and have a really strong grasp on all of the DMS Providers. I have used several.

#1 Frazer Computing. It is simple, intuitive, has Accounting built in at no added cost, integrates with lenders, integrates with 3rd Party marketplaces, has JD Power integrated, etc. The biggest negative to Frazer is that their system is not visually appealing. I host Frazer in my dealership on my own "server" which isn't really a server at all but a stand alone PC that we don't use for anything else. It is secure because it sits in my store. They do have a hosted version of their product as well. They do not offer websites but they do integrate with everyone. You can use Frazer for your DMS, Carsforsale for your Website, and pay about $215/mo. Add Feather Light CRM and you are under $400 all in.

#2 Dealer Center. Visually appealing but very cluttered in terms of the Interface. They just have too much stuff going on for my taste. Dealer Center does not offer Accounting but they do have a Quickbooks Interface if you want to do something like that. I personally did not like the Quiclbooks Interface. The number never matched and there were always posting errors. I spent too much time tracking down mistakes. Dealer Center does NOT interface to OFAC. If you were to do business with someone on that OFAC Watch List and got caught it would be really bad.

Doing business with someone on the OFAC watchlist can lead to
severe civil penalties, such as fines of up to $250,000 or twice the value of the transaction, and serious criminal penalties for willful violations, including up to 20 years in prison and fines of up to $1 million. Other consequences include reputational damage, blocked assets, and increased regulatory scrutiny.

They also offer websites but they are not the greatest on the SEO Side...unless you pay more for that.

If Westlake is going to be your only lender, Dealer Center has an advantage because they are the same company and actually share a building in LA.

#3 Auto Manager. Auto Manager has a nice product but it gets expensive in a hurry. When I used this company, they were integrating Accounting with Quick Books. I am not certain if they still do that or not. Nice people, all of the normal integrations, but they are not all free like Frazer. They also offer websites but they aren't the best.

There are others like Wayne Reeves Dealer Cloud, etc but I don't know much about them.

CarData Support said:

I haven’t seen this happen @ Franchise stores. What dealer wants to deal with the headaches that possibly comes with? I guess there may be some but I haven’t come across any.

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How do you know? How can you look at a Franchise store website and know that this isn't happening?

playersclubcars said:

Hey everyone,

I'm relatively new to the forum and have been following a lot of the discussions on maximizing profit and cutting marketing costs. It's clear that customer communication is key, but it can be a real time sink, not to mention expensive to produce high-quality video updates.

I wanted to get your thoughts on something our company is doing. We've developed a way to create professional, custom-tailored AI videos for car dealerships in minutes, not days. The idea is to turn a simple text prompt into a professional video of a salesperson, service advisor, or finance manager, delivering a message to a customer.

For example, instead of a salesperson having to record an update for a new arrival, you can have a video ready in minutes. We've seen great results with videos like this one we made for a dealership with a new G63 AMG: Login to view embedded media View: https://youtube.com/shorts/zFDtHNSWs94


The process is incredibly fast, and what would normally be a $1,500-$5,000 production budget can be done for a fraction of the cost. I'm curious to hear if this is a tool you could see your team using. What are your thoughts on using AI to streamline customer communication?

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That’s a really smart approach — cutting down production time while keeping the personal touch is a huge win for dealerships. AI video like this can make communication faster, more consistent, and still feel genuine to customers. The G63 AMG example sounds like a great showcase of what’s possible. Excited to see how this tech continues to evolve!

Andrew Hobdy said:

I am a regional sales manager from CarCutter and we are one of the oldest in this space. I can only tell you from my experience, it's in our terms and conditions that we do not touch the car ever. Our AI backgrounds only cover the backgrounds. While we have things to reduce glare etc., we strive to "make the car the star" in whatever condition it is in. We have no software whatever to cover up any imperfections in the car, our goal is to present the unit in the best way it can be presented, whatever condition it's in. Again, I cannot speak for all the companies in this space, only mine. Coming from the dealership world, that is part of what attracted to me to this company is their strive for transparency and the trust it builds.

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That’s a solid stance, and honestly, the right one to take. Transparency builds long-term credibility, and it’s good to see companies like CarCutter drawing that line clearly. AI should enhance presentation, not distort reality — and focusing only on backgrounds and lighting while keeping the car untouched shows integrity. Dealers and customers both win when trust stays at the center of the process. See attachment.

BillVaughnAlWestNissan said:

I guess I don't see how improving lighting changes the charge. That doesn't seem possible to me.

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That’s fair — improving lighting alone doesn’t really change the substance of what’s being shown. It’s more about presentation than alteration. The concern usually comes in when edits start masking flaws or altering the vehicle’s actual appearance. But simple lighting and color balance adjustments are generally seen as acceptable — they just help the photo look more true to life, not misleading.

Brian Michael West said:

Hey everyone!


I’ve been seeing a growing trend lately of dealerships using AI to enhance or even generate their inventory photos. From virtual background replacements to lighting adjustments and even touchups that remove blemishes, AI is making it easier than ever to present a “clean” look online.


That got me thinking about the potential gray area here. At what point does enhancement cross into misrepresentation? We all know that transparency is key to maintaining trust with customers and avoiding potential legal headaches. But if AI is subtly concealing minor damage, wear, or imperfections, could that be interpreted as misleading advertising?


I’m curious if anyone has looked into the legal side of this or has compliance guidance from their OEM or dealer group. Are there best practices being discussed to balance digital presentation quality with accuracy? Or am I overthinking it?


Would love to hear how others are handling AI-enhanced imagery in their stores.

The image below is an exaggeration, obviously.

View attachment 9640

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That’s a really thoughtful question — and one that’s becoming increasingly relevant. AI tools can absolutely help present inventory more professionally, but there’s definitely a fine line between enhancement and alteration. Once edits start concealing actual condition details, you’re stepping into potential misrepresentation territory.


Some dealer groups are starting to set internal policies: using AI only for background cleanup, lighting balance, or color correction — never for removing dents, scratches, or other physical flaws. Clear disclosure is also key if enhancements go beyond basic retouching.


You’re not overthinking it at all — the industry really needs consistent guidelines here to protect both trust and compliance.

jsjung35 said:

It’s definitely refreshing to see options like Dominion DMS taking a more modern approach to infrastructure and usability. For years it really did feel like CDK/Rey&Rey had a lock, so new competition is a good thing for dealers.


What I am curious about, and maybe this is something others here have seen, is how these newer platforms are influencing the way groups think about operations more broadly. When the DMS becomes easier to work with, does it open the door for groups to rethink workflows across rooftops, or are most of you still handling those handoffs such as title, recon, and accounting in the traditional ways?

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Excellent point — modern DMS platforms like Dominion really do change the game. When data becomes more accessible and systems more intuitive, it naturally pushes dealerships to rethink traditional workflows. I’m seeing more groups explore integrated approaches to recon, accounting, and even title work. It’s not just about replacing legacy systems anymore — it’s about reimagining how information flows across the entire operation.

Alex Snyder said:

It is an exciting time for data in the car biz. Franchised dealerships finally have viable DMS options! It isn't just the CDK/ReyRey show anymore.

With this in mind, it is time to get to know the other options better. Dominion reached out to DealerRefresh to help our community better understand what they are doing. We plan to host them on RefreshFriday early next year and in preparation, I'm curious how many of your stores have demoed the Dominion DMS? If so, what did you think?

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That’s great news! It’s refreshing to see more competitive DMS options entering the market — dealerships have been waiting for this kind of innovation for a long time. Excited to see how Dominion performs and what fresh ideas they bring to the table.

Well based upon the current state of the Retail Auto Industry, I would say that it's a stretch to even think that editing out damage on a photo would be considered "illegal" unless you are in one of the states that seems to overregulate car dealers.

We can advertise a price that isn't within 25% of what it actually takes to purchase our cars. I doubt anyone is going to squeal too loud about a little photo shopping. It is sort of the wild west, you can do pretty much anything you want.

The ethical part of it typically bothers me much more than the legal part.

Really nothing has changed.

vAuto is still the best. Everyone is trying to be a "cheaper alternative to vAuto".

Every platform has its own personality. Training is the key to using these complex platforms. There is a lot going on and they are just not simple to use.

VinCue, Autoniq, Laser Appraiser, Dealer's Link, they are all good. It is more a matter of what someone wants to pay.

shoppers are saints and they never lie.

"buyers are liars"

the harder the question, the more AI hallucinates.

joe.pistell said:

Ahh, Viracocha is displaying excellent JTBD software design. JBTD is Job To Be Done. Google it, it's powerful and so simple.

Yes, auto data providers have highly structured, VIN specific data. Infact, it comes in 'levels' of perfection (or completeness). The more you spend, the more complete is the record.

In your example (2018 vs 2025 F150 XLT), AI can do a OEM YMMT based 'generic' comparison (you'll need AI to be real time) This is helpful in high level research and is seen in SEO landing pages.

Using the JTBD model, the shopper is on the 2025 CrewCab XLT F150 VDP likes what they see and NOW they want a simple way to compare the car they own vs the car they want to buy. This task/solution 'should be' the websites responsibility, but, the JTBD philosophy is alien to these ppl, so, they can't see it.

That being said, this is a perfect JTBD by an intelligent chat bot on the dealer's site. THe bot would need to be aware of the page the shopper is on (Carvana's bot does this) and if the bot has this info, the bot could ask the shopper the YMMT the shopper has. The bot could ask the shopper if they'd give the bot the VIN or Plate#, they'd have the build sheet data for that specific car and it would improve the quality of the comparison (p.s. tradein forms harvest this data and chat bots should have this info if provided).

Viracocha, nice rabbit hole you've found! Very helpful for shopper knowledge. Too bad 99.9% of the software ppl in autoare chasing lead gen

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Thanks Joe! I actually have less than zero interest in website chatbots, I was considering this for a more personalized targeted loyalty approach. As with most things, the idea was born from my own needs - i was looking at the 2025 tremor and noticed that it is no longer a series or pep but a full trim now in the F-150 line up. I was thinking it would be nice to have a concise list of changes that someone like a salesperson would actually respond with, rather than a specifications dump that you get from the big data sets. If I was able to get that, then i could proactively use it in an outreach approach to engage drivers of older models to start thinking about newer models. We are a loyalty marketing company so we could bake it into our existing approach

joe.pistell said:

CASE IN POINT.
I just completed a ChatGPT study into a technical problem in our space.

GPT's opening message:

Research completed in 7m · 13 sources · 90 searches

***DealerRefresh was cited 15 times in this study***

That report would have taken me DAYS to complete. Now, flip this scenario over to car shopping.

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Were the results correct? I've found repeatedly that LLMs can be confidently authoritative and dead wrong.

The reasoning behind it, "to protect consumers from deceptive dealer practices and ensure transparent, standardized vehicle pricing," being something that was a problem in 1959, isn't surprising to me. However, what surprised me was learning how long our industry has been seen as deceptive by consumers. Even late in my automotive career, I still had not connected the historical dots to a time when our "wheels" ate hay.

Horsetrading was the original car sales. "Trade that old nag on a young mustang, fella!" Think about selling with a six-shooter on your hip in the Old West. Or a curved sword in the desert of the Middle East before those bearded men in armor came campaigning for Jerusalem.

You are part of one of the oldest professions in human history! And some of you may practice it in a way that rivals THE oldest profession

KellyKman said:

All dealership websites are built on Wordpress which is lethargic and provides very low UE scores for Google which means most dealers pay 4-$5.00 per click and their CPAs are inflated. By far the best solution (nothing is even close) is an AI SEO perfect classified site network that utilizes reproducing dealer sites on each site on that network of 50 sites. Each site has hundreds of thousands or research and Q&A pages as well as millions of backlinks. Each domain in this network of classifieds is an exact match for the 20 top long term search phrases spoken into all of the AI search mechanisms which means that each site is created as an AI citation in itself and is considered a major authority site. Dealers on tnhe net are paying $1.00 to $2.00 per click and are seeing 2-4X organic first generation leads. The guy who created this has 1500 of these domains!

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That game is over.

.