Wow, there is a lot of energy out there. I am a pulilsher of a regional magazine that is a direct competitor to AutoTrader. So the new is good for us, but former peers and friends are in a bad place. Ask most of us, it is rough and hard out there right now.

Print is certainly less important than 10 years ago. Yet, direct mail, targeted advertisng, and many other advertising programs that rely on printed materials are popular and growing. All dealers need to be online. No doubt about. But is the cost per sale climbing out of reach?

There is no way a dealer can dominate a site provided by a third party internet provider. They can pop up earlier, add colors, add logos, and make the posting appear nicer. But that dealer can dominate printed materials and can get very impressive returns for adverting investments made in print.

Trader print was a strong competitor and got very impressive results if used properly. What are deaers going to do to replace those units that were sold because of print?

Print lives and is very healthy if the material is targeted and put into the hands of people who have an interest in the message. That requires very good distribution and the proper print runs. Ask for proof and verify what agencies or publlishers claim as print runs, mailings, and results. It is EASIER than you may think.

AutoTrader.COM cuts boths ways, it is the largest, but how do you get responses when so many dealers are there?

Just curious maybe I have missed this somewhere
but how strong is the infrastructure at ATC. Seems like a lot of data being pushed these days. What kind of upgrades have they made in this area?

My apologies to David if my comment set off a chain of negative comments. I am glad to hear that things are changing at AT. Thats just good business. They have a lot to make up for after years of bad policies and procedures when it came to their relationship with their dealers. If things are really happening as they were presented to David then I would look at AT again. However, my used car ad plan seems to be working for me so why go to the added expense of signing up with Autotrader. This whole medium will have problems if local and regional dealer associations get their act together to form websites similar to AT and Cars.com. They can advertise they heck out of them in their local markets and maybe even save a little money. I agree with Alex in many respects on this and other issues. The landscape is changing.

SJBconsult,
I must say your response is nothing but a complete contradiction. Here is my response to your reply:
We are in the worst economy that anyone of our generation has ever seen — and it sucks to see anyone lose their job at any time but we need to keep things in perspective.
***Really is our economy the worst our generation has have ever seen? I was completely unaware; no wonder why our dealers are doing so terrible. This is good info to share with them then.LOL!

First, Cox companies are all separate entities and Autotrader.com and Cox Autotrader are not managed from the same balance sheet.
***Your right on that one, but when ATC needed help in Blitzing under Performing Markets and decided to publish a reverse ATC Magazine, I do believe it was the CAT employees that had to come over and work hand-in-hand in doing so.
Also I do believe the Private Party Segment always worked with ATC in building your private party content on your website. So we did work a lot closer than what you are leading everyone to believe.

Second, every company on the planet has had to look at their business and scale accordingly.
***Scale is right. Keep the performers and get rid of the under performers. Not get rid of the entire company....unless that was the plan from the very beginning.

Third, ATC (not Cox autotrader in which you worked apparently) is one of the few companies that didn’t cut sales people — and in fact we brought on some of the Cox autotrader people)
*** ATC did bring over CAT employees. You now get our president, who came from there in the first place, or vice president and the top sales reps from each office. The only thing wrong with that is, everybody in their right mind knows the plan for the sales reps. Use them to capture what revenue they can from the magazine and then dispose of them or give them the option to transfer to another city so they can say they tried to keep everyone. Those are the people I really feel sorry for. They didn't get the opportunity to get the "Generous Severance Payout" and probably will never see such a thing.

That’s almost like saying, team — since your local newspaper closed down we decided to not reward your hard work this year. (Remember, you company is owned by the same but not managed by the same)
*** I agree that hard work should not go un-noticed but that is in a perfect world.... and obviously we are not in one. A lot of people lost their jobs and because of that anyone under the Cox Enterprise umbrella probably should show some type of empathy to those thousands that lost their jobs and refrain from putting comments about Vegas Trips on the Internet. Take your team out to eat, tell them thank you and save your money. After all our economy is the worst our generation has ever seen.

Also, it’s cheaper to go to Vegas during this time of year then it is to go to Buffalo NY (kidding) but seriously. We worked hard in 2008 like everyone else and had another year of growth while most companies landed in the negatives. Why shouldn’t they reward the sales people per the tradition? I bet if they didn’t you’d see a different thread on here that says the same message (ATC is horrible, blah, blah, blah)
***My region was a performing region and it didn't matter how hard we worked at the end of the day we still lost our jobs. It wasn't shutting down offices that were underperforming it was shutting down the whole CAT organization. And don't tell me about Tradition, the Magazine is what made your name so valuable. Without that, you would have been nothing.
And taking pride in the fact Vegas was cheaper than Buffalo NY; people have just lost jobs....low class and now is not the time for kidding remarks.

Don’t direct your anger at the wrong people.
*** My anger is not towards the people who still have jobs, god bless them and I truly hope they get to keep them. My anger goes out to those flaunting Vegas trips. Once again we are owned by the same company Cox Enterprise. Show empathy towards not just the people who are without jobs, but also to their family's they are trying to support. After all, I have to go back once again to your comment "We are in the worst economy that anyone of our generation has ever seen"

In fact, channel your anger and look at your situation as an opportunity to start fresh somewhere else.
***Seriously, you have a job. So do you really know what it is like for the millions who are competing against each other in the "worst economy that anyone of our generation has ever seen"? I think not. Opportunity’s...LOL!

Honestly, I feel your pain like everyone else in this economy but if you work hard and stay focused you will thrive in another role somewhere else.
***Ok, so let's really be honest. You feel my pain? No you don't, you’re not the one trying to find a job (sorry, I gotta go there again) "in the worst economy that anyone of our generation has ever seen". So just stop, you said enough.

KAT

Alex and I agree on a lot when it comes to Autotrader. The shortcomings of the product were compounded by a sales and support staff that left a lot to be desired from a policy and procedure standpoint. If things are changing from an attitude standpoint and rates are dropping, then I would consider them again. However, I have a used car ad plan that is producing results so why should I add them back and all the expense that comes with it. I'm happy for ATC and their customers that things are changing. Thats good business. I just think the whole medium is on shaky ground. If local or regional dealer associations pool their resources, they could come up with an alternative to the cars.com and AT's of the world, advertise the heck out of it and cut out the middle men (and they might even save some money in the end).

For the record, I didn't mean to set this off on a negative chain so my apologies to David Metter if it appeared that way. Thanks again for sharing your insight. DR is a great place to exchange news, ideas and provide feedback. Thanks again to Jeff et al for keeping it going.

Lets go sell some cars and get this thing going again!

Kat,

We are in the worst economy that anyone of our generation has ever seen -- and it sucks to see anyone lose their job at any time but we need to keep things in perspective.

First, Cox companies are all seperate entities and Autotrader.com and Cox Autotrader are not managed from the same balance sheet.

Second, every company on the planet has had to look at their business and scale accordingly.

Third, ATC (not cox autotrader in which you worked apparently) is one of the few companies that didn't cut sales people -- and in fact we brought on some of the cox autotrader people)

Finally, you said "While they were having a good ole’ time in Vegas, people were getting canned everywhere else with Cox AutoTrader. Greed comes back to haunt companies."

That's almost like saying, team -- since your local newspaper closed down we decided to not reward your hard work this year. (Remember, you company is owned by the same but not managed by the same)

Also, It's cheaper to go to Vegas during this time of year then it is to go to Buffalo NY (kidding) but seriously. We worked hard in 2008 like everyone else and had another year of growth while most companies landed in the negatives. Why shouldn't they reward the sales people per the tradition. I bet if they didn't you'd see a different thread on here that says the same message (ATC is horrible, blah, blah, blah)

Don't direct your anger at the wrong people.

In fact, channel your anger and look at your situation as an opportunity to start fresh somewhere else.

Honestly, I feel your pain like everyone else in this economy but if you work hard and stay focussed you will thrive in another role somewhere else.

Best of luck!!!

AutoTrader.com is just GREAT!!!!LOL. While they were having a good ole' time in Vegas, people were getting canned everywhere else with Cox AutoTrader. Greed comes back to haunt companies. You watch and see!!!

Well written and insightful...thank you for taking the time to participate in the conference and provide a review!

Here is how traditonal media gets their rate increase..."Mr. Dealer but I have value added products that go with this awesome drive time spot I am charging you out the A$$ for...but WAIT! If I really like you I will park an obscene van with a huge sign and oh hold on.....our 2PM personality FOR FREE!!!!" And one last thing...MR. Dealer, for a low low price I will give you 500 15 sec spots (did I forget to mention it's between 1AM-5AM) so your $800 30 second drive time spot is worth it! Sorry did I just turn your Franchise into a BHPH dealer? The "audience" is so great at that time. TRUST ME they do this to dealers all of the time. Value Add what???? Online..dealer websites...SEM/SEO/Cars, Autotrader...anything online is better than that. Your lot traffic will respond with what you put into that laptop thing. I always notice that no one really knows how to respond to traditional media posts. IM's learn this so you can have that money to spend where it sells more cars putting $$$$ in your pocket!!!

Joe, thanks for your thoughts and for your honest opinions. Here is something you wont from other vendors -- please give us the opportunity to make things right with respect to untimely rate increases and other mistakes of the past.

In fact, we as the reps stepped up and fought for No rate increases until 2010 (and no that wont mean a double increase in 2010) and our company felt that was a great step toward the healing process. We understand the mistakes and we're taking steps to rectify it.

Here's some food for thought -- until this year every advertising medium has had an annual process of increasing rates and it's not unique to ATC. It's the way advertising works but the question is [what are we getting for the increase?]

ATC (and internet in general) is the only media that can confidently say that we've increased our reach and exposure by double digits year after year and that value is a win for our dealers.

Meanwhile other media were still asking for more money without the justified increase in exposure and that's bad business. In fact, everyone else was showing a decrease in those ever important metrics that determine value/rates in the advertising world.

I have a dealer that really gives me a hard time when comparing us with other media -- I asked him to invite all his advertising reps to a meeting and line us up -- and then make each of us give #'s on exposure and basically justify increases in spend and any other value points that we felt were important.

I'm not saying that ATC is the end all -- but internet in general (CARS.com and other 3rd party sites) were coming out on top of that meeting.

The result, the dealer was spending somewhere around 75% of his budget with (high cost, mass reach, untargeted traditional media)even in the face of current industry facts that show that somewhere north of 75% of consumers either begin their search online or stop their at one point of their sourcing process! It was very difficult pill to swallow but for him to continue to ignore the disparity in spend between the traditional vs. digital (where the consumers were really fishing) would have been irresponsible of him as the DP.

It was never a matter of asking dealers for more money -- but more so to ask them for a fair share of their current spend based on performance (reallocation)...

hahaha... ya gotta love those "I ain't comein' back here no more" posts.

I see:
-Sellers defending value
-Ad Buyers upset about ROI

This is exactly how dealers feel about the Yellow Pages and NewsPrint. If you look into the DR archives, you'll see a anti-Yellow Pages rant in there.

BUT, I'll say something that no other "ad buyer" will admit here.

We've abandonded YellPages and NewsPrint. We can't abandon the AT platform. So what's the bitch? You can summarize the DR rant in one sentence "We buyers are upset about the 600% increase in 5 years."

Its so simple, we're locked in a love-hate stalemate.

Joe

David I understand what you're saying and it is a positive message and often those who fail or fall short usually follow with an automatic build-in excuse list. NEWS FLASH, The auto industry is tough, it's been tough from the beginning and will be tough the rest of our lives. Life is certainly easier, for those of us who work in this industry, if we can continue to point to our vendors as the reason for our failures. This is the first and most likely the last post to this site for me; I've been coming here about twice a month for the last year plus. The absolute best thing about it is that every time I log on and read all the anti-atc postings, my faith is renewed. So I want to thank all of you built-in excuse makers. I hope you continue to blame at.com for all of your failure. Continue to discount to sell your cars. Continue to find more important things to do than spend time with your autotrader or cars.com reps; i recommend blowing up more balloons because we all know that will sell us more cars...HEY! if that doesn't work try painting the windows of the dealership, or maybe, just maybe a nice GORILLA blowup out front; all can't miss options. My point, if not obvious enough, if you continue to blame anyone for anything you have control of,....

Thanks Alex,

My intentions were to engage you on a positive note and to not discourage the positive message in this post. I think I failed in that attempt

Anyway, I appreciate your input and will work harder within my circle of control to change a perception that I believe reflects a time when we were getting our act together at ATC.

I ask my dealers to hold me to the same level of accountability that they do for the other partner vendors. When we are on a level playing field -- it is clear to my dealers and myself that we are providing a great service.

I spend countless hours with my dealers on a weakly basis, creating specials, helping with pictures and other merchandising, reaching beyond what another vendor would do to earn their respect and to keep their business. It's paying off and it feels great and I'm absolutely excited to work with ATC given the effectiveness of our service. We're putting our dealers in front of targeted audience (whom are proactively looking for a vehicle in your market) and doing it at a fraction of the cost of what they are spending on Traditional Media. This is the bottom line for our DP's or GM's.

Can't we all just get along??? LOL!!! God I love passion!!!!

Hey, guys! I am trying to run a love fest here. This is why I don't come out from under my rock that often. Can I offer the two of you some Kool-Aid?

If Autotrader is just paying things lip service, then I'll be right back to what I've been saying for the past 5 years. There was actually a time when I liked ATC.

SJBconsult - If you were in my marketplace, as a customer of ours, and we treated you unfairly you'd go somewhere else right? That's all the protest you would need to make - right? If I continued to call you and show up at your front door unannounced every couple of weeks what would you do to get rid of me? What if you even tried my services multiple times after we split ways years ago but still found the whole thing to be the same old dog and pony show? You'd leave again, and smack yourself for giving me another shot because you knew better. But I keep coming back - I keep calling, emailing, sneaking behind your back to talk to other people in your family, and still just dropping by unannounced.

So I ask again - how would you get rid of me? Call the cops? Get a restraining order? Maybe you're a forgiving person and would like to lend some criticism to help me see the follies of my ways. Maybe you have been telling exactly what I need to do to earn your business back every time I contact you. Maybe you know a day will come where I will get my act together in a way that makes you happy again. Maybe you're hoping one of your respected colleagues will come back from a trip with my company excited to hear all those things you've wanted to see from me are being committed to. Now you're just going to wait to see if they really happen.

Hopefully, once you've publicly come out to say something positive about my company someone from my organization doesn't come out to take a short stab at you.

If you think Dealer Refresh has only become a place where vendors are bashed, have you ever wondered why one in particular takes the vast majority of it? Might be a reason for that...

Alex, it's good to see a touch of positive feedback from you. Many of us appreciate the work you do but it's often weighted with a negative spin that may or may not be rational or true -- especially since guys like me are on the front lines and know that the comments are off base (at least in my neck of the woods) so these little notes of optimism from you are great.

We need to see more objective views on the various issues that dealers are facing with respect to internet and 3rd party sites and although I enjoy most of the content on this blog -- it seems to have become a forum for bashing vendors.

Every company has areas to improve and grow in -- I guarantee I can find a handful of customers that were not happy with your dealership for one reason or another. Does that mean we should bash your dealership and create a thread dedicated to reduce your value? No - I don't think that would be the best way to convey constructive criticism.

David, thanks for your thoughts on the annual conference in Vegas -- it was a great time and as a rep for ATC I'm encouraged by the changes and the validation that the approach to building relationships and servicing our customers is the right direction. This happens to be an approach and way of doing business that many of us were already in tune with but the fact that the company is alligning their objectives to support this move.

On another note -- the presentation you did was very interesting -- you've given us some steps and ideas to bring to our dealers that when the time is right -- and once they can master the basic levels of merchandising -- we'll be able to consult on that next level of digital marketing that can help advance their objectives online. Thanks for your contribution and I love you what you guys are doing at MileOne.

I appreciate the nice comments about the post. It was easy to write because I really felt like they are doing the right things for us, their customers. I met some really great people who are just as passionate about their job as many of us are. We all (ya'ah, as they say in Atlanta, GA) need to remember that the chief at the top of the mountain usually takes all of the arrows. Just ask my counterparts at AutoNation, Asbury, and Sonic. I bet they would agree.

As far as the Kool-Aid comment.... If Kool-Aid equals Vodka and Red Bull...than yes Joe, I was drinking the Kool-Aid!

I have been with ATC for six years, I have been through & part of those infamous blitz's & adding the dealers..."what have you done for me today". As an advertising consultant (& in mgmnt for approx a year) I will say that not only did I appreciate your article, I very much appreciate the direction we are headed. Being in sales all my life I realize this is all built on relationships, & going back to the "core" values that make us successful. Not only do I believe we'll stay the path on great customer service...I KNOW we will! (by the way, I REALLY enjoyed yor class!)

I think part of the challenge is that the more dealers that are on Autotrader the more diluted the value becomes but the higher they raise their prices. This inverse relationship provides a huge dilema for ATC and on the dealer side. If someone does a search for a 2007 Honda in your area and there are 1000 in the search results, what are the chances of you you receiving that lead? Yeah, I know you gotta "makes sure you have pictures and descriptions, and blah blah" I'm sure most on DR are already doing the basics. Then you pay for "premium listings" or "spotlights" or these other "added value" features. I just shake my head because it's a tough cake to bake. Once again, I'm always satisfied with the reps but in this market sometimes that's just not enough.

Nice post David. If ATC sticks by the things they said during that Vegas meeting, then they are on the right track! I would like to become an ATC fan again.

i-autoknow,

That was really well written, very creative! Be sure to stop around more often!

Joe
p.s. HAS ANYONE's USED CAR BIZ JUMPED WAY UP THIS MONTH?

bought my first AT contract in 2000 for $199 . Heck it was free before then , Manheim would post my cars right after I bought them at the sale . I have always sold cars from online ads . Has the value deminished since my free listings ? Depends how you look at it . If you look at from my cost ......free in 2000 to $2500.00 today in 2009 ....well yes, it's more money , but as I look at from my ability to sell more cars to more people and getting my prospects the best information to help them make the best decision for them .....well , yes I make less per unit , to be competative , howewever...... when ATC started in 2000 they had less than 200k cars online and less than 500k visits per month . They now have 3.5 million cars listed and 12mill. visits per month !!! Honestly , I hope other dealers will drop ATC , thats more looks on MY cars . I can't find any other media who will bring me more trackable , qualified prospects to my inventory . Last time we surveyed our sold clients , 78 % used the internet to find their car . I agree ATC grew very fast and became arrogant with the "you need us attitude" . Bottom line .....they/ATC built the largest pond , stocked it with the most fish/(my inventory) and has attracked the most fishermen/(on-line shoppers) . If I was not on-line , I would be out of business today .

OFH newspaper isn't even a competitor to us anymore. great you have the knowledge about print but we do compete against radio and TV as well. glad our team all came from traditional media. we help dealers rewrite their schedules all the time. same exposure, lower spend and WE get the $$$$ thanks for the business dealers! the blessing is, we don't get complaints from our dealers and haven't in over 2 years. guess this market hired the right people with the right relationships. our customers even run our meetings. nice to see ATC did it so sales reps can here good and bad.