Joe--
Lay off of David Metter. He didn't drink too much of the Kool-Aid. If you're familiar at all with the Mile One Group, you'd know they are one of the largest and most successful dealer groups on the east coast, with or without AutoTrader.com. There was a time when the a large portion of his group wasn't even on ATC in my market, so it's not like he's in deep with them. He's giving his opinion in an open forum, and I think it's in bad taste for people to attack him, JUST BECAUSE he likes ATC and you don't. If dealers could get off their high horse, embrace the Internet, and realize ATC is worth the spend, there wouldn't be an issue here. I've seen dealers spend SO much more on newspaper, radio and TV it's HORRIBLE. With no ROI. And for those who used to work for ATC and are attacking them? Well, yes, they had steep goals, sometimes almost unattainable, but you're in SALES. If you can't hack it, get out. If they put you out, you failed to do what they asked you to do. Plain and simple. ATC is not the big bad wolf. And no, I don't even work for a Trader related company anymore. I just kept the name A) because I've used it a lot before when I was working there, and B) because I'm proud of my time with the company, it helped accelerate me into the salesperson I am today.

Dealers...former employees... PLEASE, stop the name calling, the finger pointing, and the drama. Move on. AutoTrader.com--What they do DOES work.

Peace.

Oh yea, the Kool-Aid flows freely and all are required to overindulge; same as with the HEAVY drinking, high fiving and back stab... er back slapping, self congratulatory narcissism. You're about to be bamboozled again. David Metter, you're a trip!
How much did you sell your soul for?

Trader Hokie-
Yes, the same. Alpha Dominator.....
On top of the $6500 or so we pay as a partner an additional $3000/mo. That is for one Line. I'm a C/J/D store and all three for $6000/mo.

There has to be a point of diminishing returns for both AT and a dealer. I am glad I have a well performing website, well optimized and branded. Maybe I'll give them the heave ho.

One more thing… I hate to put it this way, but ATC IS a necessary evil for dealers everywhere. It’s not their fault, they just built something that works. No, really. When they say “WHAT WE DO WORKS” they have the numbers and research to back it up. Every industry has a leader, they are it. And Cars.com is right there with them, neck and neck.
Do you want to sell cars? Do you want to make sure you do it as cheaply as possible? Do you want to make sure that EVERY dollar is TARGETED, and that there are NO wasted ad dollars? In this economy, you can’t afford to waste money.
The sole purpose of sites like AutoTrader.com and Cars.com is to bring car buyers and sellers together. Period. The same is NOT true for radio, TV, newspaper, or direct mail. They are “reach-preachers.” But if a TV or radio station reached 1,000,000 people, only a small percentage of people are looking to buy a car. You just wasted A LOT of money on people NOT in the market to buy. In this economy, are you looking to reach those who are looking to buy today, or those who are looking to buy 3 months from now (which isn’t going to help keep you in business into next month)?
Yes, I know you like the branding, and seeing your face on TV Mr. Dealer, and your company name. But it’s not about you, it’s about the consumer. Trust me. Leave the car selling to you, leave the advertising to us. Image ads don’t sell cars. Product ads do. That’s advertising 101.
AutoTrader.com’s top package is probably around $5,000-$6000 for a Tier-1 partnership at this point, for like, Ford or Chevy. I know TV schedules, and radio schedules, that cost A LOT more weekly.
Monthly, the totals are shocking (and I don’t care if they give you bonus spots, if you look at something like a TapScan report, you’ll see that NO ONE is listening on the overnight or weekend day-parts). Ask your broadcast reps for an Arbitron or Nielsen report, that reflects the RETAIL SPENDING POWER of their station. You’d be surprised how many actually intend to spend money on a new or used car this year. This information IS available, no matter what they tell you. You’ll be shocked to see what your true reach is, and how it actually affects your ROI.
With regards to newspaper and other print products, yes, they are places where people DO go to look for cars, but not a lot of people. Yet I’ve seen what some of you spend on the newspaper! I’m SHOCKED! Consumers want as much information on the car (photos, COMPLETE descriptions) and the seller as they can possibly get before making a decision, and the Internet gives you more of that than any other place, with little to no effort on the part of the consumer. Just point and click, from the comfort of your own home. The newspaper does not. TV does not. Radio does not. The product value/effectiveness doesn’t justify the spend.

Bill--
What's the Dominator package? Is it that big orange ad at the top of the page? With the banner in the middle of the page, and the ad that pops up before the search results?
And if so, you say it's $3,000 a month?
This must be similar to the Alpha dealer package they were working on before... And now it's just an add on?

One more thing… I hate to put it this way, but ATC IS a necessary evil for dealers everywhere. It’s not their fault, they just built something that works. No, really. When they say “WHAT WE DO WORKS” they have the numbers and research to back it up. Every industry has a leader, they are it. And Cars.com is right there with them, neck and neck.
Do you want to sell cars? Do you want to make sure you do it as cheaply as possible? Do you want to make sure that EVERY dollar is TARGETED, and that there are NO wasted ad dollars? In this economy, you can’t afford to waste money.
The sole purpose of sites like AutoTrader.com and Cars.com is to bring car buyers and sellers together. Period. The same is NOT true for radio, TV, newspaper, or direct mail. They are “reach-preachers.” But if a TV or radio station reached 1,000,000 people, only a small percentage of people are looking to buy a car. You just wasted A LOT of money on people NOT in the market to buy. In this economy, are you looking to reach those who are looking to buy today, or those who are looking to buy 3 months from now (which isn’t going to help keep you in business into next month)?
Yes, I know you like the branding, and seeing your face on TV Mr. Dealer, and your company name. But it’s not about you, it’s about the consumer. Trust me. Leave the car selling to you, leave the advertising to us. Image ads don’t sell cars. Product ads do. That’s advertising 101.
AutoTrader.com’s top package is probably around $5,000-$6000 for a Tier-1 partnership at this point, for like, Ford or Chevy. I know TV schedules, and radio schedules, that cost A LOT more weekly.
Monthly, the totals are shocking (and I don’t care if they give you bonus spots, if you look at something like a TapScan report, you’ll see that NO ONE is listening on the overnight or weekend day-parts). Ask your broadcast reps for an Arbitron or Nielsen report, that reflects the RETAIL SPENDING POWER of their station. You’d be surprised how many actually intend to spend money on a new or used car this year. This information IS available, no matter what they tell you. You’ll be shocked to see what your true reach is, and how it actually affects your ROI.
With regards to newspaper and other print products, yes, they are places where people DO go to look for cars, but not a lot of people. Yet I’ve seen what some of you spend on the newspaper! I’m SHOCKED! Consumers want as much information on the car (photos, COMPLETE descriptions) and the seller as they can possibly get before making a decision, and the Internet gives you more of that than any other place, with little to no effort on the part of the consumer. Just point and click, from the comfort of your own home. The newspaper does not. TV does not. Radio does not. The product value/effectiveness doesn’t justify the spend.

It’s time to get with the program.

Ok. So I've decided to put my two cents in here. I've been lurking around here too, and have been reading a lot of the same stuff on a bunch of different message boards. The conversations aren't that different from what I am hearing from former co-workers.
I used to work for Trader myself. I started as an inside sales rep for TraderOnline for the old Trader Publishing. I went to work for Auto Trader Magazines as an outside sales rep, went to work then for the Alpha Dog of them all, AutoTrader.com as an outside sales rep, and then jumped divisions into a regional sales training position for AutoExtra.com.
I, like many others out there, have had my share of angry moments at our (former) company. But if I step back for a minute, and try to be objective, I have to say, it wasn’t all bad. During my time with the Cox organization(s), I was able to very quickly move from inside sales to outside sales to working for the flagship to being a regional sales specialist. All in about 4-5 years. What other company offers you the opportunity for growth like that? So for that, I am and will always be grateful.

HOWEVER. I too fell victim to layoffs this time last year from my regional position. So I know the pain of what those who were recently let go, are going through. I have to step back for a minute and say something about the demise of our company, Cox Auto Trader/Auto Mart. As a team, we are responsible for where it ended up. And don’t get angry guys, this is just my opinion, and my experience.
I hear a lot of reps complain, about the fact that upper management didn’t care about what was going on, and what changes were being made. Well for someone who actually made it into a management position, and got to actually talk one-on-one with district managers and regional managers, I can say they were doing what they had to do, and were doing the best they could.
AutoExtra.com had the potential to be a great site. They even brought over Joe George, one of the originators on the AutoTrader.com team, to oversee it. I remember having a conversation with him at a team meeting, about how we were in a truly good place at the right time—at a very similar place he once saw AutoTrader.com at. We had a fighting chance, it was just going to take time.
The reps however, (and this goes for AutoMart as well, as I heard about problems with rate integrity, dealer maintenance, and lack of sales enthusiasm from my AutoMart.com counterparts), failed to effectively position, sell, and service their internet products. They treated it simply as an add-on, or would HIDE it, and its cost, in the weekly invoice. I myself tried to share all of the practices I had learned with AutoTrader.com, with my reps, and very few took it to heart. They couldn’t see past the print, instead of looking at the total-market solution of print and internet, that would bring their dealers good leads. They tried to blame the site, the team in Norfolk—everyone but themselves for why it failed. Search engine marketing was our only main form of advertising? Well if the inventory isn’t there it’s not going to show up in searches! If the dealers aren’t there, the site won’t work! CAT and CAM gave reps a way to offset the costs of the print, and if they had done a better job, ACROSS THE COUNTRY, the division wouldn’t have fallen. Internet revenues with smaller overheads could have balanced out the print revenues with the higher overheads. Now yes, some reps had every dealer on an internet package, but if in one office, one city, your entire team isn’t on board, it just won’t work. And if nationally, you don’t build it, it won’t work.
I understand everyone feels hurt, angry, betrayed, lost. I was there too. And some days, I still find myself wandering back asking “what if?” But what’s done, is done. It’s time to take that anger, frustration, and sadness, and refocus all that energy. It’s time to move on. Believe me, I’ve been there.
THAT’S NOT TO SAY, AutoTrader.com didn’t have its shortcoming’s either.
I came on board in June 2006 as an Advertising Consultant, and while I was excited, and happy to be there, the honeymoon would soon come to an end. I took over a territory that had been DEMOLISHED with regards to ATC’s reputation.
Previous to me coming on board, 2 reps in that area and a sales manager, were all let go due to VERY shady practices. They had been giving dealers “free” product, such as upgrades to featured plus, or spotlight power packs, and then charging them later. “Don’t worry, they’ll thank me!” When the dealers refused to pay because they didn’t ask for the product, they were put into collections, or paid the balance to not ruin their own credit, and then cancelled ATC. Then of course, there was also the practice of selling, putting them live, and then never going back in the dealership again. Dealers LOVE that.
Now you all out there know dealers talk to each other. You can imagine how big of a fight it was then, for me to come on board, and try to work against such horrible experiences. And ATC management, WAS aware. However, they didn’t grant me any leniency. Yep, I made sales, but when times got rough because of the many uphill battles I was fighting, they were VERY quick to put you on a performance plan. Managers, as great as they were (and I REALLY DID respect my first DM at AutoTrader.com), couldn’t see past their own ambition to move up the ranks. I had a new manager come on and try to have a “come to Jesus” meeting with me, yet he had NEVER been out in the field with me, and didn’t even know my abilities as a sales rep. So, I knew it was time to move on, and was given the opportunity to move up. (This is part of why you, as dealers, saw such high rep turnover in your dealerships from ATC…their AMBITION, that sometimes border-lined on GREED…actually hurt them).
I’ve met Chip Perry. He is a great guy, and a very powerful, motivational speaker. So I believe when he says they are shifting focus this year to becoming more service oriented. And I believe it will be what’s good for ATC. And I believe in the power of AutoTrader.com.
Sorry I’ve rambled, my Red Bull hasn’t kicked in yet…
David, great post, and as someone who used to work with Mile One dealerships, you definitely have my respect and appreciation for what you do.

David,

Please keep doing guest posts they are interesting and I want you to know that I am a big fan. Keep up the good work.

Everyone,

As competitive as we maybe sometimes be with another we need to remember that we are in this together as one big team. We are the people that move this industry and control it with our experiences, references, and comments. I came to this conclusion yesterday when I sat in a room with vendors and dealers at NADA and watched two former president's speak. I saw how united we were and how we were like a family.

David,

A few do not speak for all and through sporadic disorder good eventually comes from it. Hope and look forward to hearing more valued information, updates and suggestions.

Regards,
Pete

Geeze boys... I had to take a moment to place a comment on here. Since I have been hiding behind the scenes for a bit.

As we all know AT is a heated discussion as prior posts on Dealerrefresh. Price increases and much more. Yes I was also in the midst of hammering a few AT reps on the head that were fully defending the AT blitz team etc.

David - future post would be greatly appreciated here on Dealerrefresh. Many of us regardless if we are a Dealer, Vendor, competition etc. are ears are open to learning more or should I say SHARPEN our SKILLS!!

Giving them the chance to see of their improvements are what AT says they are, only time will tell.

What it comes down to is we find ourselves blaming others for just that reason. Swallowing a hard pill due to price increases really is a drag and looking back at the ROI on the sale we made from AT is what we need to do.

Do you use AT to the fullest advantage you have?

Yes I sell websites, I am not going to sell a website if you are not going to use the tools I sell you. SPECIALS, UPCOMING SALES, UPLOADING VIDEOS and so on.

To get a tool to work for you, you need to work with all the tools that are provided to you.

I have used AT in the past, and sold a lot from AT. I had to keep on top of it daily to ensure the consumer is going to see what I have and details on that vehicle.

Again lets give them a chance to see what they have in store as David taken his time to place this post on here and seems confident this change is in the best interest of the dealer themselves.

Cheers to the Kool-Aid!

Alan-Scott gives all of his customer's the EXACT SAME DEAL...LOL!!!! First dealer in the world...Thanks Scott! Are you a Saturn store????

Scott--not all forks are created equal. A Lexus will get you from point A to point B just like a Kia--but you get what you pay for. Why buy advertising on TV station C when you can get just as much for 1/2 the cost at station D? Because station C offers more people, coverage, etc. than station D.....hope your new plastic forks don't break in your customer's hands when they take the first stab.

David, you can't do that on this blog. Some people still need professional training Thanks for the comments.

Scott Falcone and Brian DiPerna,

Quick story: I will put my reputation, ethics,success, and experience up against just about anyone in the business at any time. Neither of you know me so I would request that you not pass judgment on my character. Your pandering statement was insulting. My comments were from the heart. Maybe you should be less jaded and smile every once in a while. Sounds like someone needs a hug.....and this is why I shouldn't do guest posts...

Common now with the pimping comment. Discourse is great but discourteous is not. If your saying that you are skeptical or still not agreeing that's great. Heck make some fun but mocking? I don't think that every topic is spot on for me personally and just pass on engaging it but look at the purpose of this site. Hope you where having a bad day and no worries. The best to all and it will get better hopefully soon. PS Anybody going to be at the Chicago Auto Show? Maybe stop by and say hello-Pete

Come on...since when does explaining the proper changes that a vendor is making become a VIP Pimp show? I have met David more than once and he is great at what he does. He follows all of the right trends and is a big component to the success of MileOne. Just because someone had been to a company dinner and had a great time does not mean that they sell their soul and true feelings about them. I think when you get to know a company and you know the right people and you see that this company is trying to make things right it is only fair acknowledge it. There are companies that I am not a huge fan of even though I respect them. The companies that I am not a fan of can wine and dine me all day and night long. However, if I think they have a crappy service my thought will be the same, I will just never stop respecting people for trying to make things better and improve. It show positive change and a will to improve. At the end of the day, dealers need vendors and vendors need dealers as both work together to be as profitable as possible.

Really convenient. Fly me to Vegas, give me the VIP Pimp show and I will say the vendor is the best thing since color television.

Give me AutoTraders number. Bellagio, strip clubs, Patron, and I am their biggest fan!

"A mere $3,000 a month". I didn't know that it is getting to that point. What are they the mob?
Bad move on AT's part if they are trying to send in relatively "green peas", by way less the number of negotiating experience in to close than most Closer's/Managers/Owners in the business. Are they forgetting who needs who more. Dealers sell cars and they sell what "hyped-air"? Who's the customer and who &^% should be kissin who's here for business...nice selling model, trying to scare the fearless. Aghh! what are these ad people thinking? The direct mail people are considering coming out of retirement if that is how your going to try to sell your virtual service. Right...In two years mainstream media will get it figured out and a person from ABC online will be sending you your ad bill. I forgot they got "anal-ytics" as a secret weapon-lol

Bill, you were just "blitzed" but their not calling it that anymore, LOL!

I got the latest today. I was tag teamed by the Automart.com Rep and the AT rep. I can't believe I was told that they were required to tell me about their new Dominater package because some dealer near us will buy it and they didn't want me upset when the competion's ad showed up on top of my "partner placement". Without offering it to me first for a mere $3000 per make per month. I can't believe that AT can continually sell a higher placement package without eventually hitting a ceiling.

Just a dealer bidding against the cloud.

Quick comment about "over pricing". That's what customers feel when they buy the minute a new model comes out and later it's discounted. Not a good mindset. Did they get screwed in some way that they where over priced? Of course not because that is what the market is at the time.

Second, I bought my first mounted car cell phone for $2,500 and if I or others at time didn't help make that company profitable to continue on would they have been able to grow and better their product and service?

It's all relative in the business development cycle. If a product doesn't work in your business model then it is what it is and something else does.

If AT and Cars did not exist what would be the option? "Ebaying" the cars which puts it up for grabs on what you will sell a vehicle for.

This is all new and keep it in perspective. Do you some realize that we can rememebr NO internet, computer and what the heck is e-mail?

All the best-Pete

Bravo Scott, someone had to say it. I love how ATC is the "victim" all of the sudden. I wonder if any of the ATC folks realize the company will be sold within the year? The purple mustaches from all that kool aid must effect memory. They can't put the Genie back in the bottle.

David,

Quick story: A guy owns a restaurant and has been buying plastic forks for 10 years from the same guy for a penny a piece. He liked the fork rep and thought for sure he was his partner in success not just a vendor. Along comes a new vendor who offers the same fork for half a penny. He says he will get back to him on buying forks. The owner calls his normal fork vendor to tell him the story and ask about the price. His partner/vendor says he could do it for the same price too. The owner then decides that he has been getting raked by this guy for 10 years...why would he give him any more business... and promptly fires his vendor and hires the new guy. Do you see enough similarities in this story as compared to the pandering you received at this conference? How many times will they "fix things"? "Straighten out the pricing, etc". "Really give you exclusivity now..." Companies should not be penalized for trying to change and do better, but there are HUNDREDS of dealers (and stories) whose memory must be longer than yours. Eventually one must decide what this company is all about. After all of these years of arrogance and manipulating price and arrogance, oh I said that, I have voted with my checkbook and invested heavily in microsites and additional online resources to help sell cars, but those resources will not include AutoTrader. I have overspent on forks long enough. Best of luck with your business and vendors.

Nice to see all these smart people on here that have the magic formula on selling more cars! Boy, if you could bottle it, you'd be richer than Bill Gates. Seriously, I've been in automotive advertising for 23 years. I sold newspaper during the glory '80's. Dealer's thought it was way expensive, told us "we were the only game in town" (No, there was TV and Radio and Magazines and Direct Mail, etc. they could choose from). There were tons of dealers in there--everyone of them. No one dealer could dominate. But guess what....it sold cars for them and was easy to do. My point is. Newspapers don't work now, the internet works better (not just ATC, Cars.com, but all of it). Dealer's--shift your old tired, non-working media budget (yes it includes blow up Gorillas)to more online focus. Don't spend "more" but shift it. Also, doing it right takes work....make your lazy salespeople and/or internet manager (not all dealerships--don't kill me)use the tools available to bring more attention to your inventory! Many, Many, Many dealers are being very, very, very successful with more of an internet focus even in today's crappy economy. (I'll give you some references if you want). OBTW, I got out of "traditional media" a few years ago, because I knew where the train was headed. I'm now helping my dealers sell more cars on the internet. Lastly, Thanks David! You "Get It"

You don't. It's the luck of the draw. Buy all the bells and whistles they want to sell you and you may do better than others. Spotlight the heck out of your cars and you might get a few more requests. The consumer is going to surf and it doesn't matter if you spotlight it or put naked pics on it. They look at make, model, miles and price and they will surf all the ones they are looking for. If you SEO/SEM your inventory off your own site, you don't have pay ANYBODY huge sums of money for a crap shoot. Would you rather spend $5K plus a month on some listing site or $5K a month on your own site(s) etc....with better results?

Crazy why any dealer would want to do that anymore, CRAZY!