I hope we all can keep one thing clear here:

Steve does not represent anywhere near the vast majority of the people who come to our websites.

Of course it is wise to have a process in place to accomodate his type of shopper when they do cross our path... but don't lose perspective and forget about the other 98% PLUS.

I get anywhere from 100-300 people a day to our website. Half of them are probably going to be buying a car from SOMEONE - and there MIGHT be 1 steve in the bunch.

I personaly don't build my marketing strategy centered around catering to that 'persona'. I let the market tell me what it wants - and it tells me the vast majority:
1) do NOT have much more then a basic idea about what vehicle they want.
2) The experience they are trying to avoid is high pressure and feeling like they've been beat up and treated badly. They're not trying to avoid dealerships - they're trying to avoid a bad experience.

These are the people who I choose to build my internet strategy around. I certainly hope we accomodate the 'steve's' out there when they do contact us - but I don't devote the bulk of my time and energy trying to market to them. At least not until I have my target market well taken care of...

Steve,

After you bought the Infinity I-30 and hung up the phone, did you wonder if you could get an even better deal?

Wayne

Wayne,

I was thinking a cell phone number and my "Which" email only was as anonymous as was likely to get a reply. And some still never got back to me. No last name given. Plus I have free incoming minute, so not a big deal if they keep calling and calling...

Funny, Park PLace Plano Lexus initially sent me the 3 packages, and no personalized info at all. Just his email and number, so it was not like the service was great at that point. But when I emailed him back my plea, he said he then thought perhaps I was not a car sales guy "shopping him".

Of course had to check around to make sure the info on packages being "mandatory" was true, but Edmunds forum confirmed it for Toyota Southeast (?) sales region.

By the way , Wayne, I bought my last car, Infinity I-30 over the phone in ten minutes. Grubb's manager thought i was joking at first... lol.

steve

Steve, great comments...

One area that I'm fuzzy about is when you say you emailed ten dealerships ..."I asked about the car, gave my cell phone, and waited."

You just gave it up like that? You would be like a fish hopping into my boat. And that never happens to me.

I think most of us here are seeing customers like yourself remaining anonymous and walking-in or calling.

Joe,

You're right, your quote, and right on. Sorry Brian, but it was late when I wrote it....

steve

Here is a link to an Edmunds "expose" about selling cars in two different types of shops. One high pressure, the other seems to be a Saturn place.

Although the first is presented badly as a business model, the second does not get a stellar rating, with a comment near the end about how NOT busy they are.

If I was a Domestic badge, I would have a tough time trying to convince the owners that a no haggle model would work. But i DO think its the future, just a matter of when.

Check out Business Week, Oct 29.07 there is a small article about No haggle pricing. It specifically mentions Lithia Automotive Group, the 8th largest in US said that it will turn all 108 stores over the next 3 years.

One thing I do NOT understand.... every high pressure sales arena emphasizes "Who is selling whom...?" So, when a manufacturer "pushes" excess inventory.... is it mandatory for y'all to take it? Maybe get together and just say no might work? Time for a lawyer maybe, and an introduction into the obligations of franchisor as well as franchisee?

Not saying it would work, but from the outside it looks like if they truly could "force you" then they would be able to bankrupt each and every one of you.

Steve

Air Traffic controller? Awesome! I guess the only thing I can really compare that with would be the movie Pushing Tin with Billy Bob Thorton. I always wondered how much G.M. paid Universal for them to drive a STS in that movie. (as your reference to Lexus proves no self respecting air traffic controller would drive one) I kid, I kid.

I like the idea of this:

"I would have pretty good prices right off the bat, No Haggling"

I think I will check with my friend that use to run a Saturn Dealership he always comes to mind when I consider that model myself.

>>>>>"until management realizes that the pay plan is hurting the business's ability to survive, nothing will change. Can someone tell me how to build relationships with this tension? NOT EASY."

Brian's quote above Ithink is the key....

Brain? whaa? Hey! that's My quote!
Bow before this wordsmith and do homage to my tome.

damm, did I write that?
hahaha

"until management realizes that the pay plan is hurting the business's ability to survive, nothing will change. Can someone tell me how to build relationships with this tension? NOT EASY."

Brian's quote above Ithink is the key. I would be surprised if ten years from now any dealer at all survived just on profits from car sales. The margins just seem too fine now. But, I think the way to get rid of the adversarial tension might be to start with the idea that car sales do not have to be singular events.

I really like Tim Morris' idea of having a service manager contact the email contact who was "shopping" the MB C-class sedan. In my opinion, limited as to being a car buyer, and few at that. I would think MOST folks do not buy on price! Heresy from someonw who shopped like I did... I think Tim is absolutely right when he suggests asking, besides price what other things are important to you?, and building value from their response! But I would go one further, I think the building value happens BEFORE you get them to your door. And if you do it right, maybe its the very reason they show up to begin with? How about a series of ads, not about price? Why not take all your newspaper budget for a month, and lay out a story......... of how you "partner with your customers"? Show the value of your dealership, instead of the 'price" of a car?
Dealer value seems to be the way to go in my view (I admit to being a singular persona, and it may not work for everyone--good point Wayne)

What if cars became so complicated you could not fix them yourself? Oh yeah, we are there now, lol. So how about a labor rate that induces me to get ALL work done, forever there? Not just the waranty work that is paid out like the US health system now? How about a true "market rate" for repairs. Would not the average consumer PREFER y'all to work on y'alls car? You are the experts in that particular brand/model right? You know the car best, since you have serviced "my baby" since I bought it from you?

If I owned a car site, and I think it would be a tough tough thing to do with others not on board with the concept. I would have pretty good prices right off the bat. No haggling. NO big commissions for sales. I would pay sales folks a salary, with a small token if you sell a car. But, if dealer hits goals monthly? Then a bonus to everyone! Let the guys on the floor feel like a team instead of competing with each other and internet department for commissions! And then each salesman would have an interest in handing me off, or finding someone else who might be able to "help", right?

My entire campaign would be one of communicating a "partnership" with the customer. Carl's book was good at that point I think. I am VERY price conscious, but would have paid extra for a Sewell vehicle. I am sure many others would also. My plan as a dealer would not be to sell the most cars necessarily, but rather to sell to the type of customer I wanted to attract. Tom Thumb does not market to Sack and Save customers, and truly might not even want them in the store. Not every Wal Mart customer is welcome at a Niemans, right?

So, Checkered Flag may be getting my "loyalty" over life of car, while Earl is getting a "full commission" from a different type customer?

Again, I make it sound easy, I do realize its not, especially for US nameplates that are overdistributed.

steve

Steve...

Park Place has had that warm-a$$ed Ego-label water and special pumped-in self-branded super-oxygenated air since their inception. Now the only question is, which store? Grapevine or Plano?

Small world huh?

Scott

hmmm,

okay, I do seem to know a fair amount about car sales(I emphasize seeming is NOT same as knowing. I admit to being very ignorant). My best friend in my 20's was a car salesman who was a bit older, who actually helped me buy my first car. I went in and negotiated. Then a week later, I took him in with me. He saved me $1500 on a Chevy C20 way back in 1978 at Love Cheverolet, in Dallas (now defunct).

I majored in marketing, and am currently trying to find work ( am a retiring air traffic controller) and a friend knows someone from the Stanley Auto Group. Friend knows I am way too proud of myself as far as marketing goes, (having zero experience since 1980) and suggested his Stanley contact would make an interesting lunch hour. So I started researching Automobile business models and internet stuff. (Do you know Jeff's site is singular in its model, that allows non car types to read the stuff (and may be alone period, but I cannot get into other sites)

Ahh yeah, one more thing, Carl Sewells book.... I wind up neighbors with "one of the service techs with the funny accent" that Carl talks about. He is now pretty high up at Bankston/AutoNation here in Dallas, so I have had some help as far as the consumer "knowledge" side of things.

By the way, anyone here on any other forums? This has to be one of the most respectful groups I have ever happended upon. You all should be proud of yourselves. Makes me wish I was a car guy. Even with Earl here! At least he has a point of view, and I feel for him.

I was not trying to be mean when I quoted the "speech". I admit to being non plussed at how to proceed as well.

steve

Steve has got to be Jeff...he knows too much

Steve,
Just curious.....what business would you be in?

Steve,

Thanks again for sending the email to Jeff, and BIG thanks for sticking it out in this thread. I hope you don't mind, but I sent your email to all the executives and general managers around Checkered Flag. Your email doesn't just help to open "old" eyes, it helps to keep "new" eyes on track.

This industry will not accept the fact that control belongs to the customer now. To me, your email says "I want to reward the dealer who acknowledges my control", and I think that is the statement we are failing to understand.

This industry is in the midst of a tough transition, and this economic crunch we're in will either help it or hinder it - it is too early to tell. I don't think your next car purchase will be much better than your last one Steve, but I think 5-10 years from now you'll hear a different tune....I hope!

Earl,
The in the days of old, you had "Much Better Loyalty". That age you refer to was born in an age of ZERO INFORMATION.

Days of old had the dealer holding all of the cards (read:information)
Days of old had 3 major domestic brands (read: profits)
Days of old taught shoppers their best shopping tool was a dealer that would take care of them (read: relationship building).

The market place has totally changed from Days of old. The information between buyer and seller is now nearly equal. The consumer's drive for loyalty -natually- moves to price (not information). Reps are paid to grind and grind and grind some more. Reps DONT WANT THIS, management does.

So.... the pay plan was born from "days of old" and until management realizes that the pay plan is hurting the business's ability to survive, nothing will change. Can someone tell me how to build relationships with this tension? NOT EASY.

Joe
p.s. this all is connected to too much inventory and too many outlets. One good old fashioned multi-year soup line depression would take care of this part of the equation! hahaha... ahem, sorry.

Yea, and I bet that sales guy didn't make a dime off of you either steve. Brand loyalty? What about dealer loyalty..that's out the door too since the internet.

ooo... I don't know about you guys, but with mr.Steve in here I feel, kinda.... violated hahah, kinda like someone let a girl in the HeManWomanhatersClub*.

Who let the fox in the hen house?!?!!!
hahaha

* Our Gang - Wikipedia

Something to consider here is that 'steve' represents one type of customer, or persona that visits our website. The 'persona' concept and having a system that appeals to each persona is the main takeaway from the Eisenbergs, IMO.

Alex--

Yes I like your thinking, and your website. Whoever is in charge of decisions for the Web has good instincts. Sadly, I am not up on whether it will wind up in more sales. But you would have my "respect" as a consumer by not putting up some shlock site. I think that there are lots of speedbumps in sales. And anything that gives a potential customer reason to stop, and notice something that does NOT further the sales process? It needs to go!

Short story, I buy the Lexus, go in to pick it up, and its near end of day. I notice they have bottled water for free with dealership logo on bottle... so far so good. But its warm?? Warm bottled water in Texas? So I ask the guy who sells me the car, as he is showing me around? "Oh, yeah, no problem, there is a cup with ice right there!" I point out that Lexus is a pretty nice car, and I would not want to drive over a pothole with a styrofoam cup spilling water. Why not just refridgerate it? He takes me to the service counter, smiling. He has anticipated this he tells me. So he opens up the cooler, sees the 7 remaining bottles,and frowns. "Didn't they used to put these on ice?" he asks the tech. " Yup, but they haven't in a long time."

I went back in 4 months later. Still warm.

Not a big thing, but if you do it, think it through, right?

steve

Brian--

Funny, but it seems that the smaller badges are better at trying new things. Not saying its true everywhere. But I saw an article in the Dallas Morning News about a car dealer in a poor part of town selling "lights out" at his dealership ("his" being sexist of course, and by the way when will women start becoming a critical mass?)

I think it Don Herring Mitsu..... but not positive.

As for the questions: Hmm, I do not know. I think price is important. I think a guarantee is somewhat suspect tho. Here is my thinking about price matches.

Every been to Frye's? They guarantee to match prices, as do most electronic dealers. So you see a TV, and the model number is almost but not quite exactly the same. Each retailer has a separate model number that they use to show that the exact same tv is actually NOT. In the car business I would not trust my neighbor to tell me exactly what he paid, and even if he was willing, its private. Also, my understanding is that there are lots of techniques the dealer uses between finance options, trade in value, and add on packages that are then renegotiated down. So, if I am a consumer who hates shopping for cars, why would I want to do it twice? First to buy, then to compare?

If I wanted to build trust........ hmm, a hard question.... I think I would start with a website put up by my own guys. That is if you can find someone like Alex, who believes in the NET and has the shared costs multi badges can bring. The reason I want my own guys, is I want control. I would put up a forum. No holds barred, true honest consumer stuff. I would knock off Edmunds, ClubLexus, etc. I would even ask ClubLexus if I could open a special topic with only my dealership on the topic. That way I would be seen as having less control of the message. Then I would post any and all comments. The good and the bad. I think every bad comment has MORE potential t help you than the good ones.

Folks believe bad stuff much more readily than good news. Especially when they know good comments can be fed in, and bad comments NEVER would be. Then I would have a special guy who answers each and every comment and tries to help. SHOW that yo make mistakes, but that you take your customers best interests to heart and you have perhaps paid some money out short term. How many of those guys, unless you totally tick them off even bother to shop next time?

Anyone read Car Sewell's "Customers for Life"? I did, and then moved to Dallas, and bought a Lexus. Did I buy from Carl? hmmm one guess..... correctomundo! NO I did not.

Long story, but one bad experience made the difference for me.

Sorry Carl, but I did buy your book

steve

"why do some car dealer think the public is stupid, that we really believe some multi millionaire employs some nitwit who bought TOO MUCH inventory! "

Matt--here is the exact quote.... please tell me where I "call all... nitwits"? I think the quote is actually implying the exact opposite That multi millionaire owners are NOT dumb enough to hire ANYONE not smart enough to NOT order too much inventory.

But your response, I have to admit, I think it might be a "joke" response, seems to show your lack of attention.

"The comment about the girl ... was most likely true as dealers need to make sure the sales people are doing their job."

This is YOUR exact quote, and I have to say, this is the part where I thought ur post was joking........ If you truly think having sales folks feel so much pressure and pain that they are sobbing when the customer does not behave as the dealer mandates... that is truly sad.

Here is an idea, pay enough to get qualified help that can afford to support a family. And then pay a manager to manage well enough that that same group performs. And then see if fear is the best LONG TERM motivator. Yes fear can perform miracles every single day. But I will never buy a single car from a R-thal dealership in the VirMar area. EVER.

steve

Steve,

I'll declare up front I am not a neutral blog participant in asking this question:

"How would you feel about buying online if you could actually do all of the shopping online from a dealer?"

No salesperson would call except to help with your understanding of the process or to see if you had questions the "shopping cart" didn't answer?

Price, credit, interest rates, rebates, trade-in, accessories, extended warranties, protections, tax, title, fees, and accurate monthly payments. I know you weren't financing, and didn't have a trade, but what if?

Thought you may enjoy this story too:

The Non-Conversion Experience

Over on the DealerRefresh blog, Jeff has posted An Email from Your Customer. The email was submitted to him by a customer and Jeff posts it along with several questions. After reading the email - yes, you really should - here are some takeaways: Give y...

Steve - I'm glad someone likes my thinking! Thanks for sending the email, and I hope you decide to stick around Dealer Refresh longer - your incite is invaluable!

Well it's obvious that customers still feel slighted by the car sales process. Unfortunately based on some of the preceding comments many consumers still have a hard time separating their pre conceived notions from reality. Dealers get inventory forced down their throats from manufacturers and often have way too many cars.. Many dealers are land locked and have no choice but to offer lower prices to make room for the 10 truckloads of vehicles that will be dropped off by the manufacturer over the next week. Also to call all car sales people and managers nit wits shows that people assume just because you sell cars you are stupid or uneducated. Many car sales people are far more educated than the customers that are sitting in front of them, and many of us are in this business because we enjoy it. While dealers work hard to make consumers happy many consumers come in assuming they know and understand the dynamics of the auto business and they really haven’t got a clue. That’s not to say they are not smart, as many of them continue to play one dealer against another to get the best price they can. The comment about the girl that told the customer she would be fined if she did not give the manager the opportunity to introduce himself was most likely true as dealers need to make sure the sales people are doing their job.