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Jan 16, 2008

Brad knows:

Rule #1).
"what dosen't get measured, dosen't get paid".

Rule #2).
Brad also knows:
"...sales reps always check "walk in" grrr...

Rule #3).
Brad ALSO knows:
Shoppers will play every game in the book to remain anonymous (to improve their opportunities). It's important to not offend the already defensive shopper. Heck, I hate it when Home Depot asks me my zip code at check out!

Brad's p*ssed at the lack of value the BDC/ISM shows because he's caught in a vise. To make matters WORSE, most CRM's use a single choice as the cause for the shoppers purchase. How idiotic is that?

IT's Not Going to Change!
It is my opinion that WE'VE ARRIVED to that magical place where total dealership sales and the internet are 99.9% interconnected AND because Shoppers NEED to remain incognigto, shoppers won't stand up and be counted.

The onus is on the shoulders of the GM to recognize the current payplan is like a Web1.0 application. The web is moving and this communication/comission method is falling out of favor (and maybe costing them opportunities).

THE ISM BRINGS VALUE TO THE DEALERS INTERNET MARKETING PLATFORM THAT CANNOT BE MEASURED.

Does the Hilton Hotel count the number of ups the Concierge gets? No. Does the Concierge bring value to the HIGH PROFIT clientele? YES. The value is measured in client retention. Return visits. When are we going to realize that we're not selling to a up, but to a FAMILY that has 2.7 cars per household.

I say if someone were daring, they may find more ROI by out efforting his competition with personalized content and services.

For the sake of argument...
If you sell 200 units per month and you have 2,000 unique visitors per month, that means 1,800 BOUGHT somewhere else.

Mr. General Manager, can you tell me where the dry gun powder lies?

Sorry aboout the rant, I am in one of those moods!
Joe

Jan 16, 2008

"Customers are finding little value (read: leverage) from the Email RFQ model. 2nd, 3rd & 4th generation Internet buyers are hitting the web sites like they're brochures rather than places to initiate a purchase" Hence the vital importance of accurately tracking floor traffic and the source from it. This sounds easier than it is since so many sales people take the "source" check box as "Walk In" on most tracking systems. Walking In because of what? The balloons on the front lot? I highly doubt it. Owners/GM's don't take this as seriously as they need to which in turn devalues the impact of the ISM/BDC's role in effective marketing of the vehicles in the first place. It seems a vicious circle.

Jan 15, 2008

Alex,
I can tell by your probing questions, you're a General, you see the battle seen from 60,000 feet. You see a disturbing trend that threatens "the business model as we all know it". IMO you wont find any solutions from soldiers on the ground (unless he's been taking baloon rides on his time off).

Here's my the way I see it.
ISM model exists because the OE sites wanted the buyer and seller to meet (factory has the model info, dealer has the price). Without this marketing sponsorship from the OE, there is no ISM email model. Proof is in the used marketplace, email quotes don't exist in the used car market.

Problem:
Customers are finding little value (read: leverage) from the Email RFQ model. 2nd, 3rd & 4th generation Internet buyers are hitting the web sites like they're brochures rather than places to initiate a purchase.

Example:
Our post sale survey says, 90-95% of customers who buy a used car, visit our web site. Yet only 1% willingly reveal themselves before they buy. ISM's must battle for the 1% while 95% of customers remain incognito and stick to old school and become walk-ins or phone ups.

Question: The ISM's audience is 1% of the sites overall traffic, wouldn't the dealer find more ROI working the audience rather than the 1%? Is the dedicated Internet employee at the dealership needed in sales or marketing?

I say marketing.

Joe
p.s. I do have a used car view of the world, so I could be all washed up... but I don't think so!

Jan 15, 2008

We can all talk about how owners/managers want us to sell more cars and pay less for it, and I think those stories are going to be more prevalent over the next year or so, but we're trying to answer the question:

What is a fair pay plan to the dealer and you?

Maybe the question cannot be easily answered. Maybe the question spins off into other areas that must be defined first:

What is an "Internet" deal? What is an "Internet" department?

Maybe recent economic changes are going to force us to answer questions we haven't had to answer before. Here are some simple questions to, maybe, get us thinking in the spirit of this thread:

1. What is your sales/service/parts (the whole dealership) direction? Where do you want to be 5 years from now, 3 years from now, next year? Be honest and realistic.

2. How does your current Internet department function? Does it actually bring in bonus business, or is it just stopping your same old customers from going to your competition?

3. In order to make #2 work better, you need a good answer to #1 and a way to include your eCommerce efforts in that same vision.

4. Is your CRM reliable enough to pay people based on its output (reports). Or are you still using Excel Spreadsheets and Outlook? If the latter, is your Internet department trustworthy enough?

5. How do you make your CRM work with your vision (#1)?

6. Does it make more sense to look at your Internet department as a marketing department? If not, what is an "Internet Deal" - is it just any lead that buys, is it an appointment, is it an email reply from the customer....what is it?

7. How do you pay based off your direction/vision?

William Bryant · Jan 14, 2008

The other end is, my owner wants to see me sell more cars and make more money, yet he's tying my hands to sign up for Cars.com over $300 a month on the monthly bill! Please, an extra probably 6-8 trackable sales and $300 a month is a problem?

My counterpart at our Chrysler store is salary-paid not commision paid, and he doesn't plan on ever leaving. He does a good job, too. Anyone else gone to salary? What kind of salary can an ISM/director make salary?

Jan 13, 2008

"Most dealers and GMs always seem to want to find a way to NOT pay their employees..." Agreed. I've just left the retail side of the biz also as an ISM for a luxury brand dealership for the same reasoning. It's enough to properly "market" vehicles with excellent photos, great copy, competitive pricing, etc. making goals & objectives, only to experience the end of the month "shell game" as to your income for all the effort. IMHO a fundemental shift is going to have to occur in this industry before ISM/BDC Managers, etc. are fairly compensated for the contributions they bring to the dealerships bottom line, otherwise the turnover is just going to continue at 200%. "we would have sold them anyway" not if your competitor is doing a significantly better job of marketing the vehicles online in the first place and manages to generate a call or better yet a showroom visit on the vehicle. Too much antiquated stupid logic is still prevelant with owners/GM's at the dealership level these days. If your competitor is doing it better the customer will beat a path to the phone or their showroom first, that much is a given.

Jan 12, 2008

You know, this topic is very closely related to the reason I got out of the retail side of the business. Most dealers and GMs always seem to want to find a way to NOT pay their employees, like the problem Gerald is having. Then they wonder why they have 200% turnover and can't keep good people in their stores. Hmm...what could it be???

Gerald · Jan 12, 2008

Great topic- always near and dear!

My experience has been pretty varied. Initially, my first dealer wanted to pay me ONLY on emails (what he called "true" Internet customers) and not phone pops. I asked what the difference between and email and a phone call from Autotrader, and he said by emailing, that makes it an Internet customer. "What if I remove the phone number from our websites? They would HAVE to email us, right?" "Yeah, but I would fire you" he says. "Exactly! When the customer emails us, you LOSE money because all I can do is give them a drop-dead quote. I would rather compel them to see a car on the web and call me or better yet, drive in and say 'I must have that car'. The only way to do that is on the phone." He agreed and all Internet-generated calls were counted as Internet sales, though ISMs weren't always the sales person of record.

The one thing I ran into, and continue to is the "we would have sold them any way." At my current store, small town, family owned for 75 years, they are looking to me for incremental sales. Last month, we sold 53 new vehicles, 12 of which I substantiated an Internet history. New car director guy says, "well, our baseline is 40-50, but what we need are incremental sales." I'm sorry, being a History major, I'm not up on math, but 53 seems to have incremented past 40 somehow.

Just out of curiosity, if ISMs are not paid on their return customers or the stores' existing customers who research online and come in to buy, why would the new/used directors get paid on be-back business? Wouldn't we have sold them anyway?

Jan 10, 2008

Hey Brian,

Good point, re: ROI, competition, etc. But I will take a stab at it. Here goes: Because the particular service I cited actually takes steps to ensure that the shopper has a level of control over the experience, she might feel more comfortable sharing some additional information that will help the savvy ISM help to differentiate him/herself from the (up to) 9 other sellers on more than simply a better price. I know it sounds funny, but I still believe that a high percentage of shoppers will pay a higher price to someone who they feel they can trust. That is where the anonymous nature of this type of service comes in...because a relationship is being built on more than the standard "give me your best price" price quote lead (which, by nature sets the tone for an adversarial relationship about price alone), the shopper is actually looking for someone they feel comfortable dealing with. Otherwise they would not use that service, they would submit a lead through any of the other traditional lead providers.

Beyond that, relationship selling aside, several industries find a way to operate profitably even though "compete for your business" websites have popped up: SelectQuote for insurance, LendingTree for mortgages (maybe not such a good example!!! LOL) and other loan products, etc.

I definitely see your point...but I would jump at anything has the potential to get me out of the daily grind of sending my "best price" and hoping that its better than everyone else's.

Jan 10, 2008

Joe,

I've used an instant chat tool through three different vendors. I've actually had good experiences with all three! As long as the instant chat is not on when there isn't a person there to respond, and your dealership representative is trained appropriately, it can work very well!

I'd rather not take this thread into a conversation about instant chat services and stay on the topic of pay plans, so shoot me an email if you have questions: axsnyder at checkeredflag dot com.

Thanks to those of you who have posted so far. Mitch - thanks for sharing the link to the iMagiclab community. I hadn't seen your post on there yet.

bhoecht · Jan 10, 2008

Great topic Alex.

Awesome post Tim. Any thoughts on how 10 dealers competing for the consumer's business might result in a positive ROI for the dealer? To make the effort worth the pursuit? Just a question, but if I was a dealer I wouldn't be jumping up and down to sign up for that.

Back to Alex's original post... very insightful... dealer websites that speak in the voice of what the Internet Manager wants...

1) Email me
2) Call me
3) NOW!

Mull on what a dealership website might look + sound like if it was written in the language of conversation that consumers would prefer to hear.

http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/02/14/2-simple-steps-to-finding-your-websites-voice/

I posted on a related entry yesterday about sites in other industries that convert at levels unheard of in auto. It is by studying disciplines such as Persuasion Architecture + consumer profiles and consumer language of conversation that they get there.

And of course having system capabilities which consumers actually value (being able to buy online - vehicles, parts/accessories, schedule service) + not just inquire is related... the destination has to be worth the journey or even site design won't convert / result in any incremental car sales... and isn't that what it is all about?

Jan 10, 2008

Hi Everyone! Happy New Year!

Joe, you commented that "Until someone comes along and invents a hot new method to have a shopper "reveal themselves" shoppers will continue to collect data and kick tires incognito. ISM's need SPECIAL weapons to bring forth that sneaky and smart shopper." I wholeheartedly agree...but, look at it from the shopper's point of view. They are online for a reason, and the reason is that the Internet affords us a measure of anonymity. Do you think that the shopper will be pleased to have some "sneaky" ISM with all the tools to track that person down and back them into a car-buying corner? No, that is exactly what the average Internet shopper is trying to avoid.

It reminds me of a new concept a I learned a little about the other day: cartango www.cartango.com. Basically the concept is exactly the reverse of what you are hoping for Joe. But it seems to me like this tool will allow ISMs to better engage the online shopper and begin to develop a positive, trust based relationship BEFORE the 2 parties "reveal themselves" to the other. In other words, if I understand the concept correctly, the service will allow shoppers to submit their information anonymously and have up to 10 sellers anonymously begin to "sell" that shopper. Obviously, the seller who does the best job of gaining that shopper's trust and meeting the customer's specific needs will earn the business. Only after the shopper determines to take the next step with one or some or all of the sellers are the parties introduced to each other. The other cool thing I remember is that as a seller you get to see who else is competing for the business. It seems like a great concept from the outside in, and while I understand why it is geared ONLY for women, I wonder why the same concept could not be applied to the car-buying public as a whole (or at least the ones who are hesitant to give their personal information to some lead-aggregator)???

We all know that the reason shoppers are on the web is because they want to avoid the stereotypical car buying experience. Any service which allows the customer to do just that is a great leap ahead. Think about it, what is the difference between submitting a lead with all of your contact information online to be bombarded by phone calls and emails, and just visiting each dealer in person? The only real difference is time...with the internet, a shopper can skip right to the annoying part.

Jan 10, 2008

The consumer has learned that the dealer's website is an extention the dealerships physical property (where all the old school "hore trading" rules apply). They were hoping for -and did not get- some new transaction machine that would shop for them and save them cash (i.e. Kayak.com, Ebay or HotWire.com, etc...).

Until someone comes along and invents a hot new method to have a shopper "reveal themselves" shoppers will contintue to collect data and kick tires incognito. ISM's need SPECIAL weapons to bring forth that sneaky and smart shopper.

I think the 'net shopper woud be more "chatty" if they were dealing with an consierge rather than a sales rep.

Speaking of chatty, Alex whats your talk on Instant Chat? I tried it 3 years ago and again 18 months ago and got no where.

Jan 10, 2008

Alex, you want to know what really throws me for a loop? It could be argued that people like us who only get paid to generate new business through Internet Sales should be doing everything possible NOT to get good sales surveys back from our buyers.

Wrote a bit about it on the iMagicLab community:

http://community.imagiclab.com/group/ecommercedirectors/forum/topic/show?id=1633649%3ATopic%3A5581

Basically the idea is that a happy Internet buyer, while good for the dealership, is bad for Internet Sales, because it's likely that customer will just come back to the SP as a previous, and send referrals directly to the store, when all those people could otherwise be potential Internet sales, submitting third party leads or searching Google for local Nissan dealers.

Every year this issue of ultra-specific pay plans for Internet Management gets more and more shaky, and as you said, the ironic thing is that the best way to maximize how much money you make in our position is to do things that hurt the dealer, like use a website to push emails rather than phone calls and walk-in traffic, or get back unsatisfied surveys to ensure the customer will still be in the "Internet buyer" pool the next time around.

Alex Snyder · Jan 10, 2008

Are you an Internet Manager, an Internet Sales Director, an eCommerce
Director, an Internet Sales Consultant, a Vice President of Marketing? I think this speaks to all of us, but let's forget about our positions and corporate structures for a moment. Some of you may already have your 2008 pay plan and some might not, but that doesn't matter right now. Let's talk about what we think is right and fair. What is fair to you and the person paying you.

I was reading the "Myth of the Dealer Web Site Conversion Ratio" article, by Mitch Turck, and started thinking deeper about Mitch and Joe Pistell 's rebuttals to cross-comparing site conversion ratios between industries. When Mitch posted some actions a customer might take after visiting a dealer website (call an untrackable local phone number, visit the store, etc.) it made me think: he's right and how silly is that! We don't give credit to some online ventures that are doing exactly what they're supposed to do - mainly our own website. We do this because it isn't easily track-able. Of course, we did this to the traditional medias as well, but keep reading....

If your paycheck is directly tied to what can be proved as a clear and concise contact history inside a CRM, is this fair to you? Did you send your customer an email, or a series of emails, with value proposals? Did you leave a voice-mail saying something about the latest deal on the lot? Did that customer ask for you when he or she walked in the door, but an old "Earl" salesperson gave the customer a reason why he or she should deal with him instead? Did Earl say the customer was a "drive by"? These scenarios are also untackable. I wonder if we're paying our Internet personnel on the wrong principles?

In that same "Myth" article, T.J. posted some advice for Joe on three methods that have helped him boost Internet sales (Instant Chat, Online Coupons, and a trade appraisal). T.J. - please don't take offense to this, I could be on the totally wrong track here, and we've all done it ourselves. This got me thinking about how we are putting our customers through hoops because our pay plans are structured toward "Internet sales". It has been my experience that customers can't stand trade appraisals - it creates a confrontational environment before they even show up. Online Coupons are an annoying pop-up and most intelligent customers know they could have negotiated that amount off anyway, so all it does is knock another couple hundred dollars off every deal. However, I am a fan of instant chats! Anyway, our pay plans are driven to create more conversion so we have more customers to talk to. They drive us to take advantage of ventures that may upset the customer or not be in the dealer's best interest because we're working a pay plan.

Working a pay plan is good if you're in a traditional position, and can be if you're in an eCommerce position as well, but I'm not sure we've structured these things in everyone's best interest yet. My point is, we are in positions to influence online advertising ventures for the dealer. The dealer has based our pay plans on track-able "Internet sales". What advertising ventures are we influencing? Are these ventures fair to the dealer? Is your pay plan structure fair to you?

Jan 28, 2008

Joe,

On a site I did last summer (click my name), I altered my web architecture to track every single visitor to the site as if they are a lead. The only difference is that I won't have their name, email, or number. I only know them by their Visitor Code - a number. (Hello Ms. 23234234).

But Ms. 23234234 is a living, breathing person. I can watch everything she is doing and compile a ton of marketing data about Ms. 23234234 and put it into a database. I then can use that data to personalize Ms. 23234234's visit to our website when Ms. 23234234 revisits the website.

I then have a radar screen. I can watch Ms. 23234234 move around the site and I can change the website LIVE for each visitor. If I saw they were looking at a certain vehicle or watching our commercial, I can change the links or engage them with chat to sort of push them along.

The chat is completely integrated into the site. So when the customer starts asking me questions about financing, I can write back...."Hold on, let me bring up the creditapp for you, you'll see it show up on your screen."

I call it JumpInChat...because you are jumping into the visitor's experience with them.

So instead of focusing only on the 2 - 3% that respond, I can take a swing at 100% of the people with live interaction. We're waiting for the visitors to decide if they want to play ball. We are sitting back waiting for leads, when we should be working the visitors on our site when they are there. Just like a walk-in.

The system is still in development. My continous stream of projects prevent me from really putting it through the wringer. I had tried about 30 times to engage a visitor with chat and only talked to one person. One reason for the low chat rate was I didn't allow the visitors to engage me with chat because I wanted to keep control of who contacts who - for testing purposes. Plus, I could not be sure that I would be available. It's extremely time-intensive. It would require a dedicated rep to use and we're not at that point yet.

It's still a young and developing system that needs more resources and development to really get it going. It's a first draft. I can demonstrate on request.

But I did learn some things about what our visitors are doing, and you are right to focus on repeat visitors because it happens a lot. Your numbers seem about right, but I think it can be much higher if the website is really fun and engaging.

Wayne

PS...you really don't need the customer to give their name or phone number. I'm working out the details for a concept called the "Anonymous Appointment" that follows that thinking. But I think if I provide enough service, I can get Ms. 23234234 to reveal her name. If anything, she'll grow tired of being called Ms. 23234234.

Jan 28, 2008

Roger that on the "watchin the stats"!

Note to all who have good site stats, I need YOUR help!
I am trying to improve our RETURN VISITOR's numbers. I'd like to get a handle on what an average our here.

I am looking for a percentage (raw numbers are not important). If you have google's analytics, lets look back 60-90 days. Google calls it Visitor Loyalty. My Example: 73% of our traffic is a one time visitor. Making 27% of the traffic repeat visitors.

If you're not comfortable with sharing stats, if you have any "hooks" that work on repeat visitors send them along!

thnx,
Joe

Jan 27, 2008

Joe,

Nice 37signals.com reference. There is alot to learn from that company.

Just make sure your website lives and breathes and tracks freakin everything.

Wayne

Jan 27, 2008

Jason wites:

>>>...I haven't had a lot of luck getting people to read much copy on our site - they start clicking the menu instantly. So I tried to condense any marketing messages to ADD friendly bullet type statements...

Jan 27, 2008

Jason writes:
>>>I was thinking of an inventory rss feed, but just for seo purposes really. My RSS comment was more along the lines of using an rss feed to provide spider food content on the site similar to how you were using the blog posts...

Jan 26, 2008

Jason -

RSS is a nice feature. I've had positive feedback on our inventory & blog feeds.

And yes, our blog drives additional traffic to our main site. The blog is a key element of our SEO strategy.

Conversions are the key - converting web traffic to leads & leads to sales.

If you're not driving traffic to pages with targeted content based on their searches & improving your lead conversions by tracking their behavior with web analytics, it will be increasingly difficult to add incremental sales to your Internet efforts.

Jan 22, 2008

Jason,

I don't think Jeff minds the conversation inside blog comments - it helps his SEO!

I'm getting good SEO results with our blog: http://blog.checkeredflag.com. I'm also in the middle of a redesign right now, and the new site will have some interesting incorporations of things being discussed in this thread.

Jan 22, 2008

I was thinking of an inventory rss feed, but just for seo purposes really. My RSS comment was more along the lines of using an rss feed to provide spider food content on the site similar to how you were using the blog posts

your method of setting the flash content to expand to the full page is a perfect way to cleanly push it all below the fold

I love it when people say flash sites are not good for SEO - I always thought the opposite since it gives you so many 'legit' ways of providing altenrate content

Jan 21, 2008

Jason,

I was considering RSS to syndicate my inventory. People could sign up for:

a feed for Deal of the Day

a feed with a summary of all vehicles that came in that week.

etc...

Wayne

Jan 21, 2008

Gary! my father is firends with Jeff and he was showing him your new facility - it took his breath away! He said he felt like our place was 'selling from a barn'

I noticed the new site was very much geared toward the "Eisenberg style" for converting... now I see why. I'd like to see how it works for you guys - I haven't had a lot of luck getting people to read much copy on our site - they start clicking the menu instantly. So I tried to condense any marketing messages to ADD friendly bullet type statements

As big as you guys are, I'd think you would doing much bigger numbers from the internet. You really have some serious untapped potential there.

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