If the "Former ATC SalesRep" offended you...so be it. Your type should be used to it. YOU offend every INTELLIGENT person that walks into your showroom. 10 yrs from now you will all be playing the "Carmax" game with all car sales--new and used. No more sending the sheep "TO THE BOX". Much more civilized process--you will still send your kids to Ivy League schools if you can still buy them in. Oh...but by then 1 in 4 of you will be a used car lot. As another "FORMER" ATC sales rep--price increases are what YOU deserve. Crying back in the day when each sale "Cost" you about $125 per copy--burn in hell. Liars...are your lips still moving?

Yeah the Auto Trader is a bunch of greedy bastar**. Mhy friend who owns a dealership contacted them to advertise before my website came up and they would not leave him alone for advertising on the magazine. He finally hung up cause they would not stop.

Auto Trader sucks.

Last year we did a test with a local website and organic SEO only. We drove more traffic to the website than AutoTrader did and at $2600 per month. The funny thing was the AutoTrader rep tried to take credit for the traffic, but we had our stats to prove otherwise.

I heard the AutoTrader is in trouble right now, buying out their competition. I heard on the local radio station in Edmonton here that a new site is evolving and i've been looking at it's progress and it is growing each day. www.canadasautos.ca is the website.

Bye Bye Auto Trader…

I used to work for the company, and was very shocked (well, sort of) from recent events.

So I found some information online, have been in contact with a lot of old co-workers, one of whom made it to the national cut, and will transition to AutoTrader.com.

As you’ll see in this article in the first link, they will be closing ALL AutoMart and AutoExtra publications in all markets, and shifting to strictly online. While the article STATES that they will be keeping all Auto Trader and Truck Trader Magazines that are currently running, still running, one of the survivors indicated on yesterday’s conference call, with Ian MacDonald, the Vice President of Sales Ops, in not so direct terms, that the Auto and Truck Trader titles will be eventually out too—that they are shifting them to strictly private party ads, but because that will shrink the books dramatically, and lack substantial content, it will give them their out to do away with them altogether. The only reason they are leaving them for now, is due to distribution/rack agreements with Dominion Enterprises/Landmark Media Enterprises. The second link indicates a pending lawsuit between the two companies, due to this whole mess.

The rep also said that Ian indicated that all reps coming over from AutoTrader/AutoMart will all be HEAVILY bonused on whatever business they can bring from where they were, onto the AutoTrader.com side.

Furthermore, according to the grapevine, the apparent reason for the final doing-away with the print components, is due to the fact that in recent months, when AutoTrader.com/Cox Auto Trader was put up for sale and then taken off, was because they were contacted contacted by big companies like Yahoo, Google, as well as some other large companies, with POSSIBLE interest, but no one was interested in the print division. By doing away with that division now, it will make them a better product overall to sell to either company, or to any other high bidder.

There’s also speculation that they will group together any and all print debts under the Cox Auto Trader/Auto Mart division (which of course includes AutoMart.com and AutoExtra.com), separate AutoTrader.com out into its own completely separate entity more-so than it is now, and file bankruptcy, leaving only AutoTrader.com remaining, and leaving an entity with little-to-no debt—prime to put to market.

This in itself would obviously mean bye-bye AutoMart.com and AutoExtra.com(which was already known), and would make sense, as with the cancellation of their print products, their databases would shrink IMMENSELY, with no more basic feeds from print. And who would sell it? The print reps who sold for them before are gone by January 23rd. And the reps going to AutoTrader.com (only 140 or so out of like 1400 sales reps), are being bonused to take business AWAY from the other units, AutoMart/AutoTrader/AutoExtra.

For example, the majority of Auto Mart listings in my area come from the book, as their online penetration is MUCH weaker than their print penetration. The listings now in our area will be a joke…

The links below:



For dealers who are getting tired of the on-going Trader Publishing saga (separating Auto’s and Commercial Trucks), the Cox Auto Trader saga (Auto Trader versus AutoMart versus AutoTrader.com), and the continued, unreasonable price increases, my advice is simple:

Look to your LOCAL forms of classified advertising…they are market-based, they have their own brands and reputations, hopefully have been around for a while, and in turn, have business models that will keep them strong and in play for a long time to come, without succumbing to corporate greed.

Good luck to all! (Dealers and Auto Trader and Auto Mart victims.)

Wow, this is a great fourm and suggested reading for all involved. I have been in print and online media for the automotive industry for more years than I care to express. Your comments are all correct although, a few of the reps reporting their experiances with AT and ATC sound a bit more like sour grapes than appropriate. Senior management at most companies can be at times misunderstood but yes, they are concerned with shareholder value, afterall that is their main job description.

Dealers have a difficult task in driving new sales in todays economy versus any other time in thier history. Additionally, their marketing dollars are stretched to the limits. Today however, the dealer is aforded many more choices for advertising than ever before. The 800 pound gorilla i.e. Newspapers of the past have given way to Radio, than Television, targeted print, i.e Auto Trader the internt and of course ATC.

One post suggested investment in their own web page, smart! it's easier to control content and manage inventory and yes, it requires some attention by a dedicated staff member. Invest the time! ATC is also a viable and valuable tool assuming you understand how to use it properly. My pappy always said, "don't keep all of your eggs in one basket" well, he did'nt say it that way but I got the point. Set a marketing budget and stick with it. Use multiple channels of marketing and run reasonable and knowing ROI's on every source. Even sources with a lower ROI are viable to a point. In classic fasion, GM's and Sales Managers skip the homework necessary to make these decisions are more drawn to the sales pitch by a good ad rep. I say this with the upmost respect for those reading these posts, I would classify you as the exception to this generalization.

In time however, history always repeats itself and the 800 pound gorilla of today will be replaced by something more affordable and with better results tomorrow. Who knows, it maybe here today.... Keep looking!

I wish all of you, current and past ATC/ATP reps and of course, the dealers who depend on marketing solutions not classified advertising, the best of luck in 2009

DSMM - Funny!

Simply outrageous Stupidity - Hmmm I wonder what that would like like?

I can't wait to see how many millions they spend on their annual Las Vegas sales conference. In Jan 2008 they went all out, I think the bill was 1.7 million. I think the AIG party planning committee has moved over to ATC!!!

A set of ear plugs, a tinfoil hat and rose colored glasses are given to every management person at Autotrader.com.

Here is a tip: private sellers get a better deal than the dealers do.

You can read this article at

I just found this link from WARD, Cox is offer Autotrader.com for sale????
AT claim that their rev. hit 650M, and up 23% from last year. Why Cox want to dump it???

GREAT TOPIC... As a former employee of Landmark which once owned Dominion Enterprises, which once owned 1/2 of AutoTrader.com and which once owned my former company Trader Publishing. As a Regional Sales Manager for AutoExtra.com from 2004-2005 in its 1st year launch I learned a lot about rate increases and bottom dollar budgets. What sold web advertising back then was market/web trends and demographics. Usually from a company who no one ever heard of and data that was atleast 1-2 years old. Our knowledge of online advertising has dramatically increased since then.

Now I sit on the dealer side where its my budget to control our advertising. I have realized that the reps from AT.com have become savy to our co-op funds and even started a department to adhear to its regulations.

As I sit here scratching my head about AT.com and the Cars.com and the AutoExtra.com's and the Automart.coms and all of these 3rd party websites. I find 1 thing in common, (SEARCH ENGINES). So before stroking that signature on that new fancy price increase they are trying to sell you. Instead invest that money in your own SEO program that directly impacts YOUR website not theirs. We are paying AT.com thousands of dollars a month so that they can build their online presence.

Another fact with Trader is that the AT Publishing reps didnt want to sell the new AutoTrader.com back when it first launched, it was taking away from their print business and risking relationships. So AT.com decided to separate on their own and ever since has been doing its best to move Trader Publishing Print out of the dealerships. Though they will never acknowledge my opinion here I once was a underpaid print and online rep. I saw it happen. They dont care about the dealerships ROI they just want to push the envelope year over year, but most of the problems is on us as a dealer because we get sold on all of these little ad-ons that the reps sell. Just focus on the PRIMARY reason you are listing your inventory online and realize that shoppers / customers are educating themselves on how to get around the gliter the websites put out and get right down to the product.

I forget to post above that the pricing can be good if you can get the blitz pricing. I was able to lock in 3 years of premium listings with 50 spotlights for $2800/month. I thought it was a good price at the time and I have sold 6 vehicles this month of Autotrader as compared to six total leads the month before.

I think a lot of the autotrader value comes in not what the price is, but rather how many other dealerships in your area are using them and how effectively. Examples would be if you are the only MOPAR dealership using trader in 50 miles then it really pays off. However if there are 15 dealerships in 50 using it then you will probably not get good value out of the product. Also make sure that you are putting good descriptions and pictures up. I have found that the more up front and more descriptive you are the better the number and number of quality responses.-Steven Isakson

Trouble in Toyland???? They just axed a large capital building project, guess Cox doesn't want to float the debt in this economy, could impact their $13 billion in annualized revenues.

Dave is right but the bleeding in the print side was created by ATC. All of the online specials they created were designed to kill the print side. If that wasn't the idea, then someone didn't think things through, but that was pretty common.
They also can't stand the thought of running things beyond their 4 walls.

What prompted me to post I guess was I stumbled on the blog and saw a lot of the same assumptions about advertising being made. It was the first chance I have had to try and correct some thinking of some of the posters. For some strange reason I still hate to see you guys not make as much money as you can. I frankly shouldn't give a damn, but I have done this for too long I guess.

Someone needs to write a book on how not to run a business. ATC=Cox Auto Trader or How to take an industry leader and turn it into a solid 5th place.

Cox Autotrader as it's now known recently combined print & online divisions into one corp entity. If any current ATC Reps are wondering why they revamped your compensation so drastically last year or if dealers are wondering why the rates jumped so drastically, just think of all the declining revenue from the print divisions (bleeding severely) now part of the mix, along with the double digit cancellation rates that ATC itself has experienced the past year or so. Someone had to pay and that someone is you, dealers & sales reps.

Former ATP rep: thank you for your comments. You do realize this thread is about Autotrader DOT COM pricing and really has very little to do with what you're typing. Don't get me wrong, it is a good conversation to have, but you're not adding much to either side of this particular argument.

Just out of curiosity, what compelled you to post?

I guess thats my point... when you throw this out "While I can appreciate your attempt at bringing the value - share something an early adopter can get excited about. Call recording? Different 800#'s? Good follow up? ...old news."

I guess my question is are you so busy at looking at the early adopter information that you forget what actually works now?

By the way congratulations on those accomplishments, I meant no disrespect to you or the guys that get it. I just have seen so many that frankly never knew what "it" was. But I digress.

I have been out of the business for nearly 6 months now. I am sure what was, is compeletely different now.

If you guys are doing all of the above mentioned things and maintaining good consistent customer service, then thats great.
In our area, the next dealer I meet that is doing all of that correctly...will be the first.

Maybe I need to move to where more folks get it.

To FAPR.

[...After reading through these posts and the last one, I am sure you guys get something, but it's not advertising...]

You're saying this to a group consisting a people who have a website who just ranked best dealer website (Alex), one of the top dealer destination communities (Jeff) and myself (ADUSA online marketing initiatives) and so many others here that do, in fact, "get" the adv/mktg. element of the business. (The list is long...not slighting anyone by not mentioning you...)

While I can appreciate your attempt at bringing the value - share something an early adopter can get excited about. Call recording? Different 800#'s? Good follow up? ...old news.

Dealers need to know about the new products/services that can help them...IE: Google AdPlanner, new developments in Flash (like Jeff's article) Analytics strategies, social media optimization strategies, etc...

After reading through these posts and the last one, I am sure you guys get something, but it's not advertising.

Eric you write "How can you help us use your platform to improve our business? What can you do to help our dealerships stand out using the tools you have available? What are the little things that can make a difference?"

As I respond to this keep in mind, I no longer work for AT.
So this is just my 2 cents. Discount it if you will.

The dealers I dealt with seem to want one comprehensive program that covers all the bases. Unfortunately, it does not exist.

Many dealers think that by building a webpage they have addressed their internet needs. Again, not the case.
Advertising for your dealerships will reflect a mix of many different places because people go to these places to do their research. So AT is one source, newspapers another (though not quite as uesful), TV, Cable, direct mail (which is tough to use well), ETC.
The most powerful tool in your arsenal will be follow up. You need to track your calls and do a much better job of handling your phone ups. One program is who'scalling.com. The downside is you have to publish an 800 number in your ads, but the upside is you get a comprehensive report showing when the calls were made, the call duration, where they called from within the city and so on. Last time I checked it you had acces to 38+ reports to help track where your calls were coming in from.
The other great feature was call recording. To be able to sit back and listen to your sales staff handle calls then train to the needs of your staff is huge.
Using this program you can see immediately where you money is best spent and make weekly changes to enhance these dollars.

At the end of the day NO ONE ad group will bring in a program that handles all the levels perfectly. That why you get the big bucks to run your dealership.

Do an honest review of the different sources you get your ups from. If you get some from AT great, use it as long as the amount paid is less than the amount made. Pretty simple.
Same goes for any source.
A good review of what you actually spend per vehicle for everything is a good idea. Divide staff costs, lights, phones, rent, everyting by the number of cars on your lot and then roll those suckers out every 30 days.
I had dealers that could throw birthdays for cars they had sitting on their lots prior to using me. Pretty scary.

Autotrader reps, want to add some value? Use this forum to your advantage.

Don't try to re-sell us. Don't try to use your re-tooled sales pitches from your old-school marketing dept.

The people on this forum know the business, know the lingo and simply "get-it."

How can you help us use your platform to improve our business? What can you do to help our dealerships stand out using the tools you have available? What are the little things that can make a difference?

How can you add value rather than simply walking into our stores and saying "Sign here, your rates went up." My rep in NY tries to help with new ideas, suggestions and tries her best to 'sell' new items when needed. [Other regions - not so much...ironically, that's where we spend the most.]

The 'regulars' on this site have provided more than enough constructive, professional feedback & suggestion to keep the product marketing folks at AT busy for a while.
If they don't want to take the time to simply print the discussions here and conduct their own brainstorming sessions, I'd be more than happy to put together a consulting session that would consist of the most direct, on-target feedback - Jeff, Alex, myself, (etc...) would provide all the help needed.

[Sessions start at 100k/day. Your investment would be recovered just by my renewed contracts alone in a couple of months. I'll be sure to stop by to have you sign the paperwork; at the end of the month, as you're trying to sit down for 5 minutes to grab just one bite of your sandwich.]

As someone that worked for Trader publishing for 8 years, it's interesting to "hear" the dealers side of things and to also get a fly on the wall perspective of how you think and feel about advertising.

Respectfully I must also say that many of the viewpoints sound like "typical" dealer rhetoric. Lying to your rep to make him give you a deal? Yikes...but not only not suprising, here is a little tip. We (meaning any person that sells you anything for your dealership) essentially feel that most of you are incapable of telling the truth. So I guess on that front, we all get what we give.

The concept of "they are raising their prices because they can" is also just slightly off the mark.
The goal is to have fewer people paying more for fewer ads, therefore there is less to contend with and more money per "ad".
Flawed business plan, you bet..but I didn't make up the rules, upper management did.

They are in the process of killing the magazine side, frankly the best value out there. Name another industry that has a publication created JUST FOR THEM...and yet most of you refuse to use it. What are you thinking people?

You get to spend about $20.00 an ad for one week, and the average sell through on the ads is less than 4 weeks. IF you know how to buy and have a sales force that is worth a darn. So at the end of the day you drop $80.00 to make $2k? Let's assume you don't make $2k on a car. Plug in your own numbers the math works. If it doesn't, perhaps a class on buying your product would help. During my time with the magazine side, my average dealer spent about $50k a year to make $300k. Guess what, HE STILL COMPLAINED THAT HE WAS PAYING TOO MUCH!!! You guys kill me.

All this time, when you bought a magazine ad, it went online for free.

Now having said all that....I respect my dealers...well most of them. There are a few that if they were hanging off of a cliff and telling the truth would save them, would plummet to their deaths not being able to muster a true statement.

The world as you know it has changed at ATC. They are now in charge of all the publication entities and and have released a majority of the senior staff.

The only folks left are following the plan. Fewer customers, paying more money for fewer ads.

Back in the day we used to pride ourselves on the ROI. We were the only one's in advertising that could show you a REAL one. Now, I have no idea where market penetration is, but its less than last year by far. So every dime you spend now will be less impactful than previous years. It is what it is.

I want to close with a quick story that makes it hard for you guys. I know there are lots of good honest folks out there, but too often the EGO gets in the way.

My dealer only wanted to run 10 ads a week regardless of the fact he had a 50 car lot. The price break was at 12 cars. It's a rule and as such I couldn't break it. A Manager could, but not a lowly sales rep. So this guy tells me he is going to drop. I ask him haow many cars he sells a month from my ads. He replies 15. So he is spending $26.00 for a two week ad or $390.00 every two weeks. $780.00 a month.
I asked what he was making a car. "$1800.00 per"

So he makes $27k a month on an $800.00 investment and is willing to blow that for $52.00 a week.
He looks at his Dad and back at me and says..."Ok we'll keep running." He hadn't even thought of it.

Please guys, do the right math.

Good luck in the car business....you are going to need it.

Autotrader is just like the newspapers were a few years ago. They will keep increasing rates by hitting us with new little tools that are useless. I have tried to sit down with my local same brand dealers to see whether we could all step down to their cheapest package, but some of the other dealers think they are getting more value when paying all this money.

As long as us dealers keep paying and paying their insane fees, they will keep increasing them every year. The only answer at this time would be to create a dealer co-op and join forces to create a replacement of autotrader. Keep in mind that without the dealers autotrader is nothing, because we have the inventory. Take away the inventory and they are cooked.

Just a thought.....maybe we can put some heads together and create a fix to this instead of keep bitching about it...

I've been reading through some old dealerrefresh articles then came across this one. I noticed most comment strings are in the 8 to 30 range, but this one is at 262 comments - holy crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I guess this one will make it 263.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who hates autotrader.