Our dealership has been advertising with autotrader.com since 2000. We had the same rep for about 2 years then we got another rep who just left the company this year in June. We had a very good relationship w/our last rep, he seemed to really care about our online marketing and provided us with consistant training on the back end tools, etc. We do "ok" with them on pre-owned sales and source about three or four units a month from them. The features they added this year have really not brought us any noticable difference in traffic on our pre owned inventory our new inventory gets minimal attention, we do well with calls from Cars.com on new vehicles. I see many have mentioned the price increases of late, how much are we really talking about here? Our rates went up about 25% in the Spring but some have mentioned they are planning on raising rates again in the first quarter of next year? is this the case? Our rep with them now is "ok" but knows little or nothing obout the car business and has that deer in the headlights gaze if you know what I mean. Where is autotrader.com going in the next coming year? I'd like to get more from them than we have been getting, it's been half decent but I'm looking for more bang for the buck if you will, it's been "flat" w/them for the past year or so. The ROI has been ok but I'm coming to realize if we're paying 50% more to advertise w/them in the past year and a half, why hasn't our amount of sourced deals grown w/this increase?

C'mon Nate - don't be so obvious.

Richard - please continue to participate on Dealer Refresh, and maybe one day we can catch up offline.

I just wanted to clarify that by no means did anyone from Autotrader ask or coach me into posting any good comments on here for them. Everything I said in the comments I posted earlier was from my own experience and thoughts of them. Just over the past six months my internet sales have skyrocketed. I credit all my available resources from vendors and reps., going back to the basics and good ole' training. I would be foolish to cancel my listings on autotrader.com...Merry Christmas everyone!

Linda - I can't say anything about working for AutoTrader.com because I've never worked for them. There is a lot of turnover in the automotive industry in general (I think I heard 60% in the first year is the national average), but is ATC a tech company (less turnover) or an automotive company? Some of the previous ATC employees can probably comment better to your questions.

I'm really responding to you because your question about LA got my wheels turning. My official response on LA is that I don't know - I've only visited. You did get me thinking about my own market though. Why would a dealer from Newport News (Richard Klepach a few comments before) come on here saying nice things about ATC aside from our rep asking him to? Why does AutoTrader.com not work for Checkered Flag after multiple tries over many years? Why does the magazine work for us, but not the site? Why do my more-immediate competitors feel the same way I do?

Is it because AutoTrader appeals to an audience that buys cars under a certain price point?

I'm going to come off a little snobby with this next remark, but I recently started seeing AutoMart everywhere (that's another story...a more positive one though!) - my local grocery store and even a few places I grab lunch. I never see an AutoTrader. I went to K-Mart the other day followed by a stop at a Food Lion (also another story) and I finally found a ton of AutoTraders. In my area it seems like the AutoTrader rag has been targeting a lower-economical segment. It then occurred to me most of our ATC calls, over the last 3 months, were about credit issues. Had magazine placement over the years driven a market segment to the website?

Most of the franchised dealers in my area cater to a new car customer. If AutoTrader has been painted as something for a used car customer (a customer independent dealers, here, cater to) naturally it isn't going to work for us. It explains why we get better results through Cars.com and probably will be receiving from AutoMart soon (another Cox Media company).

So Linda, maybe you should look at the LA market yourself. Where have the magazines been sold? Do you find them in places where a $20+ bottle of wine is as foreign as Japanese? If yes, do you want to work with independent dealers and fight with franchised dealers? If no, do you work with franchised dealers and fight with independents?

I have a crazy theory that print isn't fully dead. The effects of print are still being felt amongst the companies who are still in the printing business. If you're an automotive classified company, where have your people been sticking your rag all these years?

Do you think Autotrader.com works for dealerships in Los Angeles?
I have been approached for employment with them, your blog has left me thinking about it.
However, I was previously working on advertising, and know that as compared to other Media, Internet's performance is getting better while the other media (specially newspaper and print) are cutting their rates. So I think their rate increase is in line with the changes on the market.
I also noticed tons of job postings nationwide for auto trader. They are either trying to be very aggresive or the turnover is high as some of you say.
I'll appreciate any feedback, thanks.

There is a trick to using AutoTrader.com, should you choose to continue with AutoTrader.com considering the jacked up prices.

Sign up for low level pricing (Toyota puts out $1400 of the bill) then, if using Dealer Specialties or a varient... call them and upload you New Car inventory to AutoTrader.com.

You need real pics, not stock photos and try not to involve AutoTrader.com reps.

I sell about 10 - 12 NEW CARS in additional to pre-owned sales per month doing this and is saves me thousands because I am not signed up on the new car end of Autotrader. People looking for a used Camry sees my new one listed in at the discounted price.

Got shot down pretty hard core there DS by Katherine! Thanks for the great info Kat!
It is pure greed when it comes down to it. They don't care about their dealer at all unfortunatly, just the $$ in their pocket!

Take a hike AT along with your hand bag DS!

Jason and all.

Jason I am in your camp, we all know that customers like to shop incognito.

I am about to revamp our post sale survey to get better info. I like you you've found a way to uncover stealth shoppers.

If anyone has a survey that they lean on, Please post your survey queries here.

Thnx,
Joe

1) we've had 4 reps in 12 months!

2) AT calls have dropped nearly 50% over the past year.

3) the only goods news i have regarding AT: customer surveys did show 50% of our AT deals never called or emailed us - they just showed up and went under the radar and were logged as 'drive-ups'. But then, this was true for EVERY internet medium - turned out 60% of our customers said the internet was what brought them in.

4) AT has the worse ROI for us when compared to other iternet initiatives, which are now soley AT, cars.com, craigslist, sem/seo for our own website.

5) new cars were dropped from premium plus to standard for us - yet we got just as many leads. makes me wonder if we should just become a standard advertiser with our used cars.

As soon as I can find somehwere else to invest the money, autotrader is gone. maybe ebay motors..

Nothing Fishy about it. Autotrader swapped with Cars - Cars took the #1 visited site with yahoo, AutoTrader took #5 with MSN.

autos.yahoo.com is just the subdomain and direct link which was given I suppose to be helpful and show where the "powered by" is. autos.msn.com gets you to Autotraders partnership area of the MSN site.

saying people don't go to Ebay to buy or sell Cars like they do with everything else is like saying people that go to KBB only go to research used car values and not search the car - so does that mean Autotrader's partnership with them means nothing as well?

In the end again it comes down to price - get the same or more leads on cars.com but for 1/2 or 1/3 of the price then Autotrader in most cases especially when cars.com is attached to the paper (Classified Ventures) in that market - i.e. Phoenix, LA, Miami, ect..

yes, on alexa, yahoo is #1... but that's not their car site... just fyi
it only shows yahoo when you put in autos.yahoo.com (sounds fishy)

just like ebay is realy high on alexa also, but not for ebay motors, it's for the people buying beanie babies, etc. (just another fyi)

So they raise your rate, but don't give you more?

Today at noon, we began a partnership which has value, substance, and clout. Click on www.yahoo.com. Click on Autos. And no longer will you see trader... but instead you see us. New and used...

www.autos.yahoo.com

Thanks! Best string yet on this site!

Dave Rudey
312-601-5614

AutoTrader.com's attitude is that they don't care, if you pay the increrase percentage, fine, if not "...you'll be back eventually because you need us more than we need you right now" That casual attitude will cost them millions in lost revenue. Is their audience going to grow w/partnership from MSN & KBB enough to justify the increase in rates? I hardly think so. The new features do not drive traffic to vehicles, they are icing on a stale cake that I as a dealer am personally tired of being told to eat it because it "tastes great". I sympathize with my sales rep from autotrader because they are ok, the company is out of touch with reality in their rate structures in our market if you ask me, we've had enough.

Wow DS. You've got cajones. You actually work for AT.c, you feel that you can justify price gouging. There is a difference between making money and greed. Then, you add insult to injury by laughing at the folks on this forum( mostly dealers; your customers, your livlihood) and calling them stupid. Does DS stand for DipShit??
Furthermore: AT.c does NOT have the right to take money out of dealer pockets every 6 mos. On the horizon for 2008:
AT.c is selling against TV for the first time ever.
Increases are 8(Loyalty Rate)-25%(new business rate), NO grandfathered rates, will occur in March regardless of when you signed your last contract. There will be two rates: New Business rate and Loyalty Rate. Loyalty Rate eligibility, they will need to be on consecutively at least one year. ALL dealers will get the increase by 3/31/08.
So, you think it's bad now. Just wait. And DS, good luck with that. it will be awesome to see who is laughing when your commissions dwindle down to poverty level.
Be sure to check out the vignettes leading up to Cars.com's 2 commercial spots in SuperBowl: www.carsgameface.com. In addition, Cars.com will take over Yahoo Autos on Monday Dec 10. NEW and USED inventory will be posted. AT.c will take over kbb.com. Yahoo ranking on Alexa: 1. Kbb.com rankning on Alexa: 2,498.

"Our new partnership with Kbb.com signifies our continued commitment to providing our advertising customers the best value and widest possible exposure. With more than 3 million new and used cars listed on our site and 13 million unique monthly visitors -- and with both numbers continuing to grow -- AutoTrader.com remains the best source for buyers to find that perfect car and for sellers to quickly find car buyers." -- Chip Perry, president, AutoTrader.com

"This alliance is a great opportunity for Kelley Blue Book to further expand its focus on providing value to the dealer's business, something we have been committed to for more than 80 years." -- Paul Johnson, president, Kelley Blue Book

This move still does not support the annual rate increases for the Autotrader solution they keep handing to the dealerships. kBB is a great company and has a great reputation however they have not been real successful in the transition to the technology solution. This is strange as they have the ingredients however the recipe has not clicked with the consumers.

At some point, and this point has been taken by many dealers around the country, most dealers will say no to the annual increases in their rates. There is not much Autotrader can do as their business model is based on the pyramid principal and when the pyramid begins to turn upside down then there is no longer financial base support.

There will be a solution developing from a company, developing a model offshore that will, if they are able to pull together the plan and financing, offer a more reasonable priced solution. Let us hope they are successful.

Google Base is another solution that is (Presently) very affordable and Craigs List which is very affordable. The consumers like these sites and trust them, every day more and more use the resource. You also have ebay local which at $900.00 plus is not inexpensive however it is clean and the consumers like them, and they are month to month. You try them, if it works you keep them if not you say goodby. The other nice thing about these three is they are International and this gives the sellers a much broader market.

No problem Jennifer.

Google Alerts is a great way to keep informed in the industry. You can create an email alert so anytime a certain "keyword" for example autotrader.com, cars.com ect. is mentioned the news item, blog is emailed to you.

Here is a link to set it up

If you need help let me know.

That is amazing thank your for the input T. J. It is good to get the facts.

Read this online today.. Last line shows you even very well branded Cars.com sites are using SEM to drive traffic to their site.

"The deal also adds cachet for Homescape, a leading and growing property listing site based in Chicago. Homescape is a division of Classified Ventures LLC — which is owned by media companies Gannett, Tribune, McClatchy, Belo and The Washington Post.

To date, it has 2.7 million property listings cast to a network of 125 online newspaper partners. Its intent is to grow www.Homescape.com into the same brand recognition as its other businesses, www.Apartments.com and www.Cars.com. Some $5 million is expected to be put into Search Engine Marketing in 2008."

One of the reasons there are, and will always be, 3rd party vendors is that no matter how knowledgeable a dealership employee becomes about SEO/SEM, PPC, organic searches, do-it-all-yourself, etc., as soon as he/she gets new responsibilities within the company, leaves the company, becomes sick, gets injured or just loses focus, there is usually no one to step in with the same level of expertise and the project falls apart.

Have seen the same thing happen over and over with service customer and un-sold prospect follow-up programs. Dealer tries to do it in-house, Sally gets overloaded with other duties or takes some time off and pretty soon customer follow-up has fallen by the wayside.

Like state-of-the-art, customer-captivating SEO/SEM laden web sites, it CAN be done and it's not even rocket science but many (probably most) dealers lack the personnel with the passion and commitment to maintain consistency in the effort. And that's when the outside company becomes an alternative worth paying for, whether it's AT, Cars, AutoWhizBang or whatever.

Thank you Mr. Jeff larsen for the input! I was a bit confused, I was thinking that Jeff Kershner was trying to be an AKA..... Thanks to the both of you!

Thank you to Alex and all of the contributers of this article. I have learned and appreciated everyones input.

Admitting I am an Autotrader.com fan because of the success personally experienced with them regardless of how they market or how much they charge. I also believe Cars.com and other methods of online advertising are essential for online success. It’s all about what works in that market for that dealership.

Based on my experience, once an Internet Department has learned how to utilize and maximize the main online advertising resources: Dealer Websites, Manufacturer leads, Autotrader.com and Cars.com, only then is time to broaden the horizon into other areas.

For clarification purposes, I would like to mention that the online name I previously used ‘Internet Jeff’, should not be confused with Jeff Kershner, and was actually thought of to separate the two Jeff’s.

Feel free to contact me to share ideas about this article or any other automotive internet thoughts. Generally, it is the most misunderstood and underappreciated department in a dealership… We need to stick together on this!

Thank you

Jeff Larsen
815-994-0012

I personally agree Autotrader.com is a bit too expensive, however over the last year since their price increase, I have seen quite a bit more leads being generated from their site and our closing percentage has climbed to 11.5%. Now I'm not sure if it's my process or are these little extra things they offer now such as multimedia and dealer specials contribute to the increase in our closing percentage. I use every available tool available to me from autotrader and update my specials and spotlight cars as soon as there is a change. I personally don't mind paying on an average $350 per car in advertising. I think any dealer would agree on this as long as the numbers are consistant. I'm placing this comment here not to defend or bash Autotrader.com, I just like to give them a little credit where it's worth. I would be willing to bet if a dealership that uses Autotrader.com stopped they would see a decline in both their internet and floor traffic.

...a big wig sit in his chair and laugh at the dealers and think " wow you must be really stupid & you have no choice" This mindset is where they are at. IMHO they are going to undergo some fundamental changes as far as corporate structure in the next six months or so. Will this benefit dealers currently paying their rates? Time will tell, but I highly doubt it. I find it hard to believe they maintain this sentiment when they experience field staff turnover like they do, crazy if you ask me.

Yes apparently I was the 100th post. I was not aware of that. It is funny they don't give their information and they have such hasty stuff to say to defend Auto Trader!

The reason I have jumped aboard with TK Carsites is I know they can give so much to the dealer, yes they are not cheap by they deliver results big time. Why should we dish out so much money to have a big wig sit in his chair and laugh at the dealers and think " wow you must be really stupid & you have no choice" Think again BIG WIG aka AUTO TRADER! All the dealers have a choice to jump up and say "What a minute, why should we pay the Cow when we can get the Milk ourselves!"

For the price jackings and poor customer service from Auto Trader they are a waste of wind in my world!
Sorry to be so harsh on this post, but thinking again I am not!

Thank you again Alex and the rest of who supports the idea of the crazy price jacking!

It's just another way to get "newspaper" money trump the Partner package I'm sure.

So if there is something above spotlights or your Partner package why have a partner program?

DS- states, if we could have thought of their brilliant idea then we would have?

Interesting challenge to all of us who are in the internet/automotive field. Wonder who will come up with the next category Killer to autotrader - enjoy it while it lasts now DS.

That is what is so great about our country. There is always someone out there developing a new idea to make something that exists even better... or filling a need that another company is missing out on as it is clearly stated in this post.

Who knows could be one of us...