I think a few things are interesting. Certainly the OEM's are doing a much better job at getting traffic to their sites, and also creating content that adds to the consumer experience. This is the main thing that is separating the third party sites from the OEM's. I think all 3 segments can improve by combing content with price, in different ways of course, to better direct the process. Dealers should try to understand what buyers are looking for, and make sure they have that content on their sites also. The study gives some good direction in that regard. As an industry, we need to work on moving the dealer's own website farther up in the first visited, last visited, and most useful categories to further help GM's etc. see the light, and draw a clearer picture of just how much impact the internet is having today. From a dealers' perspective, there's power in controlling the process. We need to continue to work on getting truly local, in-market buyers to a dealer's site. This will continue to push the internet's influence on dealer selection, which is one key area which JD Power says is moving the most.

In regards to your comment on dollars being moved online by everyone except local dealers, I see it slightly differently. Today there just aren't many options for dealers. I mean, if you had 'extra' money (try not to laugh) and wanted to spend it advertising online... what would you do? Sure, you have some local "news" and entertainment sites, but dealers have discovered that those are not truly targeting in-market buyers, and laser targeting is the most compelling thing about interactive ads. News sites just don't pencil. Classified sites are good, but they are limited to just used car shoppers. The lead sites (Dealix, ABT, etc.) are forced to hide the dealer branding/web site ad components for the sake of their model, and who knows what they are really doing with the leads, or where they are coming from anyway. SEO seems to hold the most promise, but only because it's the new kid on the block. I can fast forward to a time where paying $20 for an unqualified "click" will sit about as well as paying $20 for a Donald Duck lead does today. So, there aren't too many choices available today for the dealer who actually believes the internet is affecting his business, and wants to move more dollars to the medium. I see that most dealers are seeing traditional media not reaching people like it used to, and are instead just not spending as much. We at kbb.com think we have it (mostly) figured out, but moving the needle with the old dogs takes time.

Stay on course.. there is light around the corner...

Best-
Joe

Nicely put. I've never used Lending Tree, did it work out for you? How was your rate compared to other methods of securing financing?

The association for Internet professionals, AAISP, has just brought on a Membership Secretary, and new members will shortly be getting a welcome aboard membership kit.

Items to be included will be Certificate of Membership, suitable for framing, an AAISP mousepad, and additional items which are being prepared as we speak.

I had the pleasure of recently attending their meeting to discuss topics and sessions for the upcoming conference in April and I can say without hesitation, this will be a dynamite conference and all attendees will be able to bring back to their dealerships real, beneficial actionable items to help them be more successful.

Mark Dubis
Editor
Digital Dealer magazine
Official Publication of AAISP

Joe,

One of the biggest fights of anyone working for an Internet department (in any capacity) is your own showroom floor. Salespeople and Salesmanagers all mean well, but when a customer is in front of them they lose their minds on process....always opting for the path of least resistance. On top of that they're profession is selling people on things, and they're very good at selling coworkers on why the path of least resistance is always the way to go. The truth of the matter is you have to force salespeople to do something - either in pay or through a CRM process. If you're dealing with a group of stores, you really need to do both.

Design your ad source portions of the CRM tool to make each ad source just as easy to select as another. Don't have subsets like Internet - then - Edmunds, KBB, Dealer Website, etc. Have a list like TV Commercial, KBB, Edmunds, Previous Customer, Dealer Website, Radio Ad, Newspaper Ad, etc. Mix it up. Put the least likely things a salesperson would choose at the top and the ones they always choose, like "Drive by" all the way at the bottom. If your CRM tool is worth it's salt, they should have people in support who can help you with this.

You can also give surveys to customers to fill out in the finance office, or other slower points in the sales process, to see in their own words what really brought them to you. Again, you need to be careful how you position/frame your questions.

The positive approach is to constantly (every other day) show salespeople how collecting this data puts money in their pockets. This is tougher to do. If you don't do it every other day, they forget.

On a side note, I know this post sounds anti-salesperson, but I speak from experience. I sold cars for years and am guilty of every salesperson sin in the book. I chose the path of least resistance, I marked over 80% of my customers as "drive-by's" (CRM's were just starting at the end of my selling days though), I believed every word a customer told me, I made deals with customers before talking to my salesmanager....then put my manager together - that was me. I know how to motivate me, so that is where I'm coming from in this post.

I need some advice.

I need the sales force to do a MUCH better job collecting info from ups and sales and inputting into CRM.

Ups don't want to be harassed & I can appreciate the reps position. I am entertaining a monthly drawing for filling out a survey.

Can anyone offer up some sucess stories?

Joe

Something doesnt seem right about this spreadsheet. I am no where near an excel expert but shouldnt leads cell and the cost/leads calculate in the total cost cell when you place in the number for example i put it i received 22 leads at 24.00 a peice and when i tab over to the total cost it says 0 when you do the math it should come to 528.00

thanks
tina

Following is a copy of the post I put in the "Spreadsheet Reports" category. I feel that I need assistance in more than one area so I will put it here too.
*****************************************************************************
I have downloaded your reports and the other report in this blog. I want to put them to work for me. What I want to know is how do you (or anyone else) gather this information on a day to day basis?

Do you have a form of some kind that you fill out at the end of the day?

Do you fill out something as the day goes on?

My problem is finding the time to do all this. I am the only person handling our internet and of course we all know that means I do alot of things that aren't directly related to SELLING a car.

In general I need help with time management and process.

I would love for someone to just walk me through setting this up so I can handle it all with a measure of success.

Please help me.

Thanks.
******************************************************************************
I know that the best of ISM's are very busy, so I am probably asking for alot.

But can someone simply "break it all down" to help me set up a process.

My strength is closing (in person - working the numbers, budget etc), and service with a touch of internet "know how". Basically I am a little above average (if you count customer service, and actually caring about the customer) in sales, and would do better (financially) if I went back to the floor (but I want to make the Internet "thing" work at my dealership. I use iCarMagic, but never have the time to actually customize it so that the reports and follow up help me remember certain things.

My weakness (es) are time management, doing so much that I literally forget (I need something in place to flag these for me) to "gather that data" for the customer looking for specifics, or any number of things similar to this.

If someone would "Mentor" me, then you would be doing a service not only to me, but my wife and 5 children, plus all the customers who really want to deal with a person who cares about them.

Doing keyword searches is a great way to see what your customers are looking for but you must also cross reference that data against competing websites. Sometimes going after the big keywords will get you less traffic because there are so many other sites vying for that same word or phrase. For all of your online, offline, seo, and marketing tips please visit my site at: http://www.totalmarketcontrol.com

Gus Skarlis

Of the dealers with which I have conversed about price look-up tools, fewer rely on NADA Guides for their trade-in pricing than Manheim and KBB, but they are a player and I am sure there are markets where NADA Guides is the standard. Manheim seems to have the most credibility with auto dealers themselves and KBB for consumers. I would be curious to know, like you said J.K., what sort of research went in to this partnership. It seems to me that AutoTrader would be a natural fit with Manheim b\c of their Trader ties, but who knows these days.

This is another example of how good companies go bad as they grow. Autotrader used to be a good resource for both dealers and customers..until they started growing. NADA has always catered to the banking business and never had realistic values for dealers use. Blackbook and Manheim are as accurate as you can find, at least in the southeast. Autotrader caters to the big dealer groups and customers. When doing a search for a vehicle, who needs to see 4900 different Malibu's? I agree with you I think that this union is a mistake, just more misinformation that us dealers have to spend 2 hours overcoming.

I travel all over the country doing dealer development and absolutly agree with your point of view.

Here in the Inland Northwest NADA is the only book we use. Nothing else represents our market, at least not here in Washington State.

I believe that you are correct in your thinking.

I have used Autotrader.com for over two years now in my Internet marketing plan, and I have not once used NADA for anything other than LTV's for bank loans.

I believe that this is a bad move for Autotrader, if they are going to merge with anyone I would think Kelley would be the more appealing partner.

I went to the last one and it was worth the time and money. I also took the GM with me and that was to my benefit because he know has a better understanding of the Internet. This time i am bringing the used car manager, and i am sure he will be enlightened as well. I am currently THe Internet Director of BOBB Chevrolet in Columbus Ohio with 7 Salespeople under me working towards having ten by years end

hey-
do you know where i can find pre-made e-mail templetes.

Thanks for your comments on my article. I like the blog, do you get much traffic on it? Also hopefully you make it to the AutoSuccess Summit in Vagas, I will be speaking there and would like to meet you. Have you joined AAISP yet? I sit on the board and we are suppose to meet up in Vagas while most of us are out there.

Thank for reading my article.
Jasen Rice

My department has limited funds so I took the 1000.00 per month I was spending on third party leads and spent it on other endeavors. My contacts went down a little but cars sold did not move much and I also increased my avg gross per car. I think the 3rd party lead model encourages price shopping and drives the cost of pay per click through the roof. I guess it depends on your rooftop and size of store. Personally I don't want to buy leads and customers all in the same day. Guess this could become another flame thread "3rd party leads does the contact justify the TOTAL cost"

I sent in a request to www.pricegrabber.com they made me verify my phone# before made my request. I also had one of their account managers call me to verify that i was looking for a car. I was just wondering if anyone has used them as a lead provider and if so whats the closing ratio.

Jeff

I think you really need to look into Black Book Online program the leads are some of the best in the industry!!

I have quarterly meetings with my 3rd party LP's.

I go out there and shop and see where my name comes through. I also have never received a "verification call" from anyone...

I print the sites that I submit through and log what I presented and what I asked for... I use this to check up on "exclusive leads" that I supposedly get from some of the big guys... Take the time shop yourself and see where the leads come from... or go to it's not always you!

It's also a great opportunity to see how other dealers do stuff. I find that I look a lot better than my competetion!

Share this with Mgmt at review time.

I really don't understand what the confusion is and why this is being dissected so many different directions.

@tomkline , you and I sat together at the Independent Auto Dealers Convention in Vegas a couple years ago when the FTC had a representative there that did a talk and open Q & A. You addressed your concern directly to the FTC in that you agreed with the CARS Rule with the exception of Doc Fee. You plead the case that dealers needed to be able to slip the doc fee to the customer after that fact. She appreciated your comments and DIRECTLY replied..."the doc fee gets added to the price, period".

The FTC stance is crystal clear but dealers are ignoring the FTC on this. Well we are posting a banner. We are disclosing it on the VDP. We tell the customer up front. People don't complain about it. This list goes on and on. I have seen this issue argued in various Social Media groups. Lots of dealers are respecting the warning shot. Others are convincing themselves that their particular method of ignoring the warning shot will be just fine.

My interpretation of this rule goes like this: Each car gets 1 price. That price is a number that ANYONE can drive that car away for. The End. There are no "adds" after the price. Simple. If there are any potential reductions from that number, fine! Disclose THAT. Put THAT on a banner. If you want to give a discount if the customer finances with you then fine. Disclose it. If you want to discount if the customer buys a $4500 VSC then fine, Disclose that.

Here is the reality. We as dealers have created this problem. We made the choice to ignore laws that have been on the books for over 100 years. This stuff isn't new. We all knew we were doing things that were not compliant. We did it because our competitor did it. We did it because we were greedy. We did it because we wanted to raise our Commission Pack without raising our Commission Pack. Now it is time to face the consequences of our actions.

Lurking in the shadows are a very large group of car dealers that are welcoming this enforcement. They have been lobbying for years. They are the ones that respected and followed those 100 year old laws and they have figured out how to be profitable without after the fact price additions. This group is at a tremendous advantage right now. They have never had these fees and have built a successful business without them. This group is dangerous. They have a chip on their shoulder and they will be the ones that report everyone that is not doing it the right way. This will be the most efficient rule enforcement in the history of the FTC. The FTC is getting ready to bat 1.000.

So my question @tomkline , what do you tell your dealers when they argue with you about why they want to ignore the rules? Do you believe the enforcement of the rules is a net positive for the consumer? Do you feel this is needed or warranted enforcement? Do you think us dealers went too far? I value your opinion more than you likely understand. I want to know what your feelings are about this, not your interpretation of the enforcement.

Thank you.

Ryan Everson said:

I'm thankful this is all that's being required by this administration.

Ultimately, I think this is what the majority of dealers wished would be the case all along. Everyone was just gun shy about being the first in their market to make their cars look like $500 worse deals than every other dealer. This helps level the playing field and eliminates the minority of unscrupulous dealers tarnishing everyone else's reputation.

Click to expand...

When we brought our illumiQUOTE product to market (automated payments on dealers' websites and quotes in the CRM), we earned business from a few stores in the DC market. Even though I grew up in the Southern Virginia market, it was an eye-opener to see how some stores in Northern Virginia and Maryland handled price quoting.

At that time, we were asked (demanded) to build a way to remove freight and discount a vehicle using most available incentives, regardless of whether the customer qualified. There was also a "trade rebate" that was applied to lower the price with a heavy stipulation on how the market value was set at the time of appraisal - this trade rebate was at one dealership, and the only dealership we ever fired... for other reasons. $60,000 domestic trucks were showing $250/mo loan payments that nobody could get, for example.

My theory:

The FTC and political staffs primarily live in the NOVA/MD market. It is one of the most aggressive and competitive markets in the country. Dealers are fighting hard! When these staff members go car shopping, they encounter a wide range of advertising tactics and in-store processes. It is possible that a few of these people have developed a dislike for that car-shopping experience. Of course, this could have happened anywhere in the US, but this particular market is rougher than most I have seen.

It makes me wonder whether the combination of an administration that wants to change this and a bureaucratic staff that has developed a grudge is making the FTC more heavy-handed

I'd be inclined to stay away from this company. They keep contacting us and requesting proprietary data and information, and to form a "partnership." They have contacted our help desk numerous times over the past ~6 years, and many of the requests originate from Belarus. Reddit has done a pretty good job of deleting posts from obvious plants in threads about EpicVin, or vehicle history reports in general, but on other platforms (e.g., Quora), there are abundant comments like the endorsements in this thread - they all sound the same.

Their BBB review aggregate score is 1.1 stars, with numerous complaints. I'd love to know if the "Authorized EpicVIN dealers" on their site know they have this status. If they're paying for this service, I hope they're either getting some value out of it, or figure it out quickly before lighting too much money on fire.

Definitely a different beast today. I was proposing this in 2011.