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Speculation on the future – somewhat frightening

Kevin,

Thank you for your response. Yes, anyone in the auto business should be aware of how DMS providers operate. However, I don't think the recent push to privatize customer information further to be something shady against 3rd party vendors. If that were the case they would have done it a long time ago. I believe this is fully being done in accordance with privacy laws.

As for the manufacturers pushing CRM/ILM's on dealers, no, it is nothing new on the ILM side. It is very new on the CRM side. Now that technology is available to monitor almost every aspect of a dealership's business from anywhere in the world, manufacturers are wanting to see how "their" customers are being treated.

Aside from creating a major hassle of which providers to choose in the future, there is another side to where all this could lead. Mitch, the first commenter in this thread, caught onto it. If manufacturers dictate which technologies to use, then the next step is to QMSify (Quality Management) our sales process. You put these three things together:

equal technology + equal sales process + one price approach (coming) = every franchised dealer being like a fast food chain on new and certified cars.

Speculation on the future – somewhat frightening

Would any of us be truly surprised if the primary DMS providers decided to make it incredibly difficult for 3 party providers to have access to our respective DMS? Have any of us been blind to the pattern of smaller vendors rising up to become formidable competition to Reynolds and ADP, then learn that those smaller vendors have been bought out by Reynolds or ADP? It is the nature of this industry... I am curious as to see the shakedown that will result with Microsoft's entry into this market.

As for being forced to use a specific ILM/CRM, I have seen this with several of my OEM's. However, over time, they have opened up access to use other "certified" ILM/CRM packages. While I don't like being forced to use a certain ILM/CRM (especially when I have a better system), I am patient in allowing some time to pass and having the OEM then allow us to use our own system. Kevin Frye/eCommerce Director/Jeff Wyler Automotive Family

Speculation on the future – somewhat frightening

Thanks for the heads up Alex and like yourself...

I have heard similar rumblings in the last few years. The rumors I heard were how the big DMS companies would completely deny access to dealership information from 3rd party vendors.

Why does a dealership need a "DMS"? I don't know this answer and maybe others can shed light for me?

Im just a car guy that has taken the time to learn some of the technology available to the dealership via CRM/DMS integration, but I see this as a strong arm of the DMS's to soley use their product (good or bad) for all functions wanted.

Not being as familiar with what the DMS's provide on the accounting side, but other than that- are there not CRM tools that with a little tweaking would be able to provide all of the services needed to dealerships aside from the accounting and maybe some of the service/parts department functions?

Example: Pulling new car inventory from the manufacturers (manually entering used) and ability it to other 3rd party vendors, enter customer info via dl scanner, not having to "push" a paperless deal into a DMS instead working right out of the CRM tool? Besides, CRM tools are already integrating the service and parts dept information now with internet and showroom.

One place for the manufacturers to observe all the dealerships processes and results from all departments.

Maybe Im just a simpleton?

Speculation on the future – somewhat frightening

Nice post Alex...

Nissan also demands that you work with their approved CRM vendors... but they have approved 23 of them, so does it really matter if Toyota goes this route? I'd say no, if they approve anywhere near that many. Most dealers are bandwagon folk, and the number of dealers who will want to use a custom-built tool or an unapproved tool is small enough that it's worth the mandate.

What concerns me more is that every manufacturer and vendor seems to be getting more active in telling the dealer how to run their business... and as much as I'd love to debate that line of thinking, I really can't. Most dealers are successful by accident when left to their own devices.

Speculation on the future – somewhat frightening

First off, I must admit this article is purely speculation based on rumors – it is about the future, and not set in stone.

Two things have come up this week, which are major concerns for me. One deals with the two big DMS providers: Reynolds & Reynolds and ADP. The second is something I heard about Toyota. We all know privacy laws have become more stringent than ever and continually evolve to encapsulate wider venues almost daily. It was simply a matter of time before the DMS providers had to jump on the privacy band-wagon by creating their own set of requirements.  This should be nothing new for a Reynolds & Reynolds dealer. Mostly this will affect third-party vendors. As an ADP dealer I am beginning to become familiar with their upcoming process. It seems as though they are offering vendors two steps: 1) The vendor has to purchase an API to gain DMS access (about $80,000) and 2) become certified through ADP (about an 18 month process…currently). Fortunately, dealers will be able to send out some information to vendors, but the more DMS information a vendor interacts with the harder it will be for that organization. I foresee the next few years being difficult in working with DMS information and vendors. We will have a short list of approved vendors to choose from.

To further shorten that list is the second part: our manufacturers. This part fully comes from the rumor-mill, but I heard Toyota is considering a new mandate. The mandate will require dealers to only use approved CRM/ILM vendors. This will be more stringent than what Honda currently does. Honda only wants to monitor certain areas of how Internet leads are handled, so they require a dealer to use a pre-approved list of vendors or offer dealers to pull leads through their own Honda Interactive Network. From what I heard about Toyota, they are considering only passing leads to dealers who use one of their pre-approved CRM/ILM vendors, and not offering any other alternatives to access Toyota leads. Speculation on the rumor vine, also states Toyota will take things even further by requiring the whole dealership use one of these vendors. Toyota is interested in not only how Internet leads are handled, but showroom traffic as well. Typically Toyota sets the franchise premises, so it is only a matter of time before other OEM’s move in the same direction.

If speculation becomes fact, this could mean dealers have an extremely short list of vendors to choose from. And dealer groups could be even more limited as one manufacturer requires a particular CRM/ILM that another manufacturer may not.

Can you see what a mess all of this could put all of us in?

P.S. One more time, this is purely speculation from the rumor-mill. I mention it on DealerRefresh to give everyone a heads-up on a potentially difficult future.

AutoTrader - I did it again!

Jeff: "Does this mean even if I make a change to a car..like price, description, photos..the information is locked BUT if the vehicle is deleted from the feed (DMS or software feed) it will delete from AutoTrader? I have not witnessed this but will be sure to keep a closer eye to see if this indeed works."

Yes, this is correct, however I believe your feed provider must request this setup specifically

AutoTrader - I did it again!

Great topic, Jeff. I too have been perturbed by the substabtual annual price hike from Autotrader for minimal increases in ability. I actually pulled the plug on them last year at my dealership for a couple of reasons, and the management came out of the woodwork! You'd think I was trying to leave a store without buying a car.

After a couple of months, I got back on board at a diminished level, and gradually increased to Premium Partner, simply because from an ROI standpoint, it makes business sense. Even if it costs you $300-400/sold car, you are still much cheaper than a "showroom" sold, and generally, you can run better gross (They picked YOUR car after all).

Bottom line, do not be afraid to mix it up with Autotrader. I think if enough stores fire them or decrease their membership, upper management might get the hint. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the CARS.com web leads- they sell fine too. Maybe move some of that cash over to Cars for a quarter and see what the results are. Autotrader will continue to push the price range envelope as long as we permit them.

AutoTrader - I did it again!

Autotrader Traffic Graph
(Alexa; 5 year)

site0=autotrader.com&site1=&site2=&site3=&site4=
&y=r&z=1&h=300&w=610&range=5y&size=
Medium&url=autotrader.com

YUK, AutoTrader.com at 5 year low. That spike in late 04 must have been the Yahoo connection being switched on. Looks like that relationship is USELESS now.

NOTE: when I previewed the URL (above) the complete URL would not show so I have to cut it up. You'll have t paste all lines individually.

AutoTrader - I did it again!

There are a few comments that I agree with and a few that need clarified. First off, since around March of this year you can now use ad manager and the vehicle will be deleted once it is deleted from the source where it originally came, AutoTrader.com calls it "Smart Update". Also, the new dealer community is a great tool but it is brand new, just went live last week, so some of the bugs will still show up for a little while. As far as AutoTrader.com offering "new" products that don't do anything to help sell cars, I'm sorry but that's just not true. How about the new multimedia, a virtual walk around for every vehicle in your inventory if you want it. Plus, they are helping to advertise and brand your dealership with up to 27 photos of your dealership and you can tell a story about your dealership and also select what services you offer.

As far as the vehicle brochure is concerned, when the print window comes up for your printer, you can select just certain pages to be printed. Since this is in PDF (Adobe Reader) format, there is no easy way to program this part in.

All in all, great to see you hanging around for another year with ATC. Wait till next year, the best is yet to come! BTW, our new partnership with MSN AUTOS will certain not hurt your bottom line!

AutoTrader - I did it again!

Joe, my first advice would be to avoid "paralysis by analysis"... Our business is driven by tracking key metrics, but I can see that you already see that many things are very difficult (if not impossible) to measure - in this case - stealth buyers. For this particular example, I know that I have stealth buyers with both Cars.com and AutoTrader. My goal is to measure apples to apples as best as possible. I am able to measure page views, phone calls, emails and leads from these providers, as well as their respective costs and how many sales result. While my ROI might miss some stealth buyers, I feel that I am making the best measurement that I can with the information I have, and considering I am measuring the same information from each vendor, I am comfortable in making key decisions. Kevin Frye/eCommerce Director/Jeff Wyler Automotive Family

AutoTrader - I did it again!

"What can't be measured, can't be paid". I need help with measuring ROI.

How do you connect the dots in all of the "grey" areas? Customers like to shop "stealth". Sales reps hate to invade the customers space.

-Do you survey your ups?
-Do you survey your buyers in F&I?

Need help & wisdom!
-tools?
-processes?

AutoTrader - I did it again!

Honestly, what is the ROI from Autotrader or Cars.com?

Questions
What internet vendors are the most visible to the public?
What is the cost to sold- ROI to the dealership?


Answers
Autotrader & Cars.com
Direct or indirect? See below please


The ultimate goal in any business is ROI. So what is the true ROI with Autotrader.com, the 7th largest internet advertising company in the world that is also unique to being industry specific or with Cars.com?

Direct ROI- vehicles sold start to finish via the phone call or email lead to the internet/bdc department.

Indirect ROI- vehicles seen by local residents who come in and purchase that never emailed or called first, clicks to the dealer website, and overall dealership branding.

24 hours a day, 7 days a week nationwide exposure.

Could they be better with their admin tools? Are there flaws? Should we start keeping them honest with pricing now?

Yes, yes, yes.

I believe the bigger problem is the dealerships ability to service the internet shopper properly, and if all did our internet departments would be able to show more direct ROI, receive more internet advertising funds, and in turn have more sales reps than the showroom.

Ask your next internet appointment how many dealerships they attempted to contact electronically and never received a response.

In 5 years dealerships will be spending (if they aren't will be out of business) more on internet advertising than newspaper, tv and radio.

AutoTrader - I did it again!

I was in the market for two things a few weeks ago: an 80 series Landcruiser and a new place to list my pre-owned inventory. When I started the search for the Landcruiser I began on AutoTrader.com. I found one of the reasons why I originally canceled our services with them to still be true: sold units continued to stay on AutoTrader.com. Almost every Landcruiser ,within a 20 mile radius to me, had already been sold. I moved my search out 200 miles to include the DC area (I'm in Virginia Beach) and started calling private owners. I called three people and they all said the same thing: "yeah, the car is on AutoTrader, but my Cars.com listing is much better - why don't you check it out there?" So I started looking on Cars.com and found the lead that took me to my new-to-me beach truck.

We were on Cars.com from their introduction in our market, but could not get a ROI worth keeping us there. I think the company was too young to have all the marketing campaigns fully sink in. After searching for my Landcruiser, I'm of a different opinion today. I've been using NewLeadsPlus (a Cars.com company) since we canceled on the Used Car side, and I'm now ready to sign back up with Cars.com. Of course, I looked at AutoTrader.com again, but paying $3,000/month more for the same old heartache isn't in the cards. I will say this for AutoTrader, we had some huge grosses with them, but at the end of the day the pissed off customer (who I can relate to after calling on 10 different cars that were already sold) leveled those grosses to a negative.

Jeff - I know where you're coming from with your decision. The "Do I keep using AutoTrader debate" is a tough one. In some areas it still makes sense to use them, but in my area it is the same old song and dance at a higher cost.

AutoTrader - I did it again!

Autotrader, Autotrader, Autotrader. Instead of paying big bucks for the Christian Slater voiceovers I think it's time to hire Susan Powter as a management consultant (remember those "stop the insanity" infomercials?) When I was a sales rep there I heard it all the time...."why pay you that much when I can get the same results for this much"? Like any other corporate sales gig they burned appropriate rebuttals into our brains, and sure, they worked. As someone who speaks with dealers across the nation on a daily basis, and who also keeps in touch with several Autotrader reps on a daily basis, I've definitely noticed a trend. We knew it would happen at some point, but dealers are finally starting to "defect". I'm told management is well aware that cancellation/churn rates are at all time highs, and they sugar-coat it like one would expect. To all the dealers who used to tell me that Autotrader would price themselves out of the market - it looks like you're another step closer to being correct.

On the flip side of the coin, Jeff does point out an important aspect: ROI. It's still cheaper than other media on a per-vehicle basis. The countless sales trainings I was forced to sit through where they do competitive analyses always seemed to focus on other media. Of course Autotrader is going to be more cost-effective than newspaper, radio, or TV ads, but what about that elephant in the room with the Cars.com bumper sticker that none of the sales trainers are talking about? Autotrader is well aware of Cars.com eating into their market share. It just seems to be an atmosphere of competitive ignorance. Can they afford to do that? Well, they are still the highest traffic 3rd party site, and the $70 million marketing budget last year came from somewhere. I however think ROI is more important than traffic, and from what I'm seeing a lot of dealers are starting to understand this. Kevin's comment represents a lot of dealers, both large and small.

AutoTrader - I did it again!

Hi Jeff,
We too have seen the significant increase in Auto Trader's fees. I carefully measure our ROI each month, as well as page views, emails, and phone calls from each of our vendors. My analysis has shown that Cars.com is giving me the same amount of page views, emails, and calls as Auto Trader, but at one third of the cost. ROI has been very close between the 2 since January. This month, Cars.com is bringing many more sales than Auto Trader. Auto Trader is still part of our mix, but like any dealership with a limited amount of marketing money each month, we must put our money where we get the best results. AutoTrader needs to show me why they are worth three times the cost of Cars.com... Kevin Frye/eCommerce Director/Jeff Wyler Automotive Family

AutoTrader - I did it again!

"What keeps me going with AutoTrader is the positive ROI I’ve been able to track using the service."

This is one thing I have to respect about you. I know a lot of dealers and few make informed decisions about their advertising. A lot of the time dealers make decisions with their hearts and wallets rather then based on the numbers. I'm glad to hear you are tracking your ROI this closely and wish more dealers would do the same!

xBMANx

AutoTrader - I did it again!

Yes, what you say about Auto Trader is true. It is too bad as this tool has great potential however the management is bent on promotion rather than making a progressive tool and listen to the client feedback which would give them the direction they need to make it better.

How long was I after them about simple things like the "Pop-ups" and all they wanted to do is deny there was an issue.

The same with their "Buggy" dealer management tool, this could be streamlined and made more efficient.

At some point their business model will run out of room as their pricing will no longer sustain the expense and increases they are passing on to the clients.

They did just sign a deal with MSN and will replace Cars.com as of this week so this will add some value this year.

In addition sites like Overstocked.com Google Group is doing a project with salesforce.com and Google Base is a viable option for the smaller dealers and "Boutique Dealers".

Some of these options are currently free and Google Group/Salesforce is offering an intro price of only $600.00 per year, a steal at that price even if it only sells 2 cars a month.

The ecommerce options are developing so quickly that many of the solutions presently offered in the market place will just go away.

One of the issues they face is the increase in labor and marketing expense. At some point management will start laying off staff and the ad and promotion budgets will cut back and the company will have difficult choices to make. Couple this with clients moving to other solutions Auto Trader will bite the dust.

The other option is to move the whole operation and management to India. This will allow them to make a huge increase in profit, as 70% reduction in overhead will reduce their costs.

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