So Mazda dealers don't need trade ins as a source of used vehicles?

I read somewhere that 1/2 of the car buying consumers have trade ins as a part of their deal. Is that still a ballpark number?

And the Mazda dealers must also feel confident living with "upsell at delivery" for their other F&I products with no effective introduction during the sale?

Do the dealers at least get to keep the finance income from the finance contracts arranged on the Mazda site?

Must be good grosses in those Mazdas to live without these other income streams + be able to keep the lights on.

Actually the process models what Scion did, but I'm not sure how Mazda allows haggling without running afoul of US Anti-Trust laws. Look here what happened when the OEM negotiated price was determined to be a cover for price fixing... and that was in Canada which has relatively lax laws and penalties vs. the US.


That's not a happy PR day.

Access Toyota was a good idea gone very badly wrong and it didn't have to be that way. I am very supportive of a seamless consumer OEM to dealer buying experience, but it can't be the OEM controlling the prices. I'll be very interested to see dealer's reactions if their total gross profits are eroded... you just can't make up the loss of trade ins as a source of supply + erosion of F&I profits on volume. Without those, almost every franchised used car dealer would have gone out of business a while ago.

Oh... and most sales person pay plans are based on a % of gross profit. Or maybe that's changed. Let's hear from the people who walk these miles every day.

This kind of thing can't just be one-sided change in this case and kill off dealers. Dealers can not go away. There are exceptions, but for the most part they play incredibly important roles in their communities, they are the single biggest payers of state sales taxes, in the aggregate they are major employers of good paying jobs, there is legislation on many states prohibiting OEM's from selling directly (which this is not... a "sale" requires offer, acceptance and an exchange of consideration) and exactly where are consumers thinking they are going to take their vehicles for warranty service?

There are far more good dealers than bad dealers. I tell consumers all the time to spend just as much time doing research on the dealer you are buying from rather than obsessing on price. Just because 3rd parties on the Internet try to get you to believe they have access to lower prices, all car dealers buy their new cars from the same supplier at the same prices (it is illegal in this country for it to be otherwise). On a $30,000 vehicle a dealer will typically make $1,500. Out of that, he has to pay his sales person, rent, lights, hydro, overhead, etc. Without the trades + F&I product revenues... no dealers.

The better online shopping experience is a good one... but not like this. Dealer pricing can be tied in without fixing, but for heaven's sake, let the dealers make enough to service their customers well. Learn to shop those that do.

Per my post above, here's the German's vehicle/pricing drilldown tool... better brush up on your Deutsche first.

Tough one.

Hard to say if it's a positive step for "the industry", if that term refers to a a bunch of guys who inherited stores from their dads and are accustomed to raking in over $3,000 per sale.

It's a positive step for the industry if the term refers to the overall consumer experience. It's just one more move towards the future of car buying... no sales staff as we know it. A big warehouse full of cars, a test track, a dozen buyer's guide kiosks that cover lease vs. purchase, model pricing comparisons, financing, insurance, aftermarket, etc. And a Walmart greeter at the front to document demographics for the OEMs.

If no one has seen Mercedes-Benz's (German dealerships) OEM dealer web sites with the vehicle/payment drilldown tool, just have a gander at that to peek into the future of car buying.

Mazda Changing Up the BuyingExperience

Autoblog and DealerRefresh both have two posts about Mazda changing up the way consumers can buy Mazdas. Instead of haggling with a sales person on the lot, they can go through the Mazda website and have a sales assistant help them in the process. I th...

I also believe this is a step in the right direction for the consumer as well as the industry. It will stream line the process for the consumer, offer better pricing for the consumer and less shenanigans from the stores.

I believe, and there are examples, that we will see a bigger move into virtual stores where consumers will be able to go online and make their purchase. Ebay is an example on this as well as Google Base, Overstock.com. More and more the opportunities for the consumer will be greater and more efficient.

I think as Microsoft comes into the game with their DMS Solution in 08 this will be another step in the right direction. There are other new entities developing as well, i.e.: Arkona and companies that provide new LMT and CRM solutions speak of consumer friendly solutions not the “cookie cutter” options that are popular today that do little more than mirror the showroom experience that most consumers are wanting to move away from.

Not all consumers want to go to the store and roll around in the parking lot and fight over the deal, get stressed because the dealer is trying to squeeze them, get home and find out there were incentives / rebates that they were not told about, sold a warranty product that they did not need, placed in vehicle that was beyond their needs and budget.

It will be better for the OEM’s as well as they will have a better awareness of what the consumer needs are, what makes them unhappy and trends the industry needs to address.

Toyota, Honda, Volvo, Kia, Saturn and a number of OEM’s have been moving in this direction.

I LIKE THE PART WITH THE SCROLLING BAR AT THE BOTTOM WITH THE INMPRISONED HORSES...TOOO FUNNY

Entirely too cool - thanks Jeff

That is absolutely hillarious. Very professionally done. I like that the advertisement that I got to see was for Nissan. Pun intended?

Lol, thanks for the laugh Jeff... I now have a new line when I am having one of those stressful internet days - "I feel like control-alt-deleting myself" - nice! Cheers! Kevin Frye/eCommerce Director/Jeff Wyler Automotive Family

Thanks for your honest review of MyRide.com. As a Product Manager for MyRide.com, I value your input and candor.

Today, our product in Beta is a chance for us to begin a foundation of a great product that will be heavily influenced by general consumer feedback and need. I will make it a priority to listen to any feedback directly that will help us reach our vision, which is to make MyRide.com the best auto site ever.

Best to you
~Eric

Eric Cotter
Product Manager
Autobytel / MyRide.com
[email protected]
Direct: 949.225.4544

I have been following the Vast.com and Autobytel MyRide.com partnership for a while and was very disappointed by the final site... and by the misleading site title tags... I can't find the dealers section... where is it.

Plus to search a car I must select the year first... so stupid... and no search function after it returns zero results... and if you press back... it goes to new cars... even when you were searching used cars... I would accept something like that from AutoByTel but Vast... come on... apply that classified magic to myride.

Only good thing is... if your inventory is going to Vast.com then it is on that site... which is pretty sweet.

MyRide.com = YACWSTTLC.
You can just feel the Suits at autobytel.com running it. It lacks "attitude".

I'd venture a bet they're copying... oh I mean "benchmarking" cardomain.com, a real 2.0 auto site with 15mill members.

AutobyTel has already unleashed the wolves (aka sales reps) & were dogging me for an order on myride.com 2-3 weeks ago. I told them to call me when their site grows up.

YACWSTTLC
Yet
Another
Corporate
Web
Site
Trying to
Look
Cool

Billy, your service obviously will beep the antenna of any ISM listening. So list your contact info so they know how to find you and get on the path of becoming your long term partner...

Having played on the dealers side of the fence for 15 years I understand many of the frustrations you all are currently expressing. I know how hard it is to sell a car, I've done it. In a perfect world 3rd party lead generation would be, 3rd party sale generation. I don't want to speak out of turn or upset anyone on the site, but I would love to express the direction of my company. I have been in business for 5 years as a generator. Over the last 120 days I've started to aggressively pursue dealers for a retail relationship. Our mission is simple. If we produce SALES for our dealers at a PROFIT, they will keep us around forever. My goal is simple I want to get paid by the dealer only when they sell a car, PERIOD. I don't feel anything else matters. So I ask many of you in the room, Does anything else matter? We sell sales not leads,not referrals, not clicks or anything in between. We generate 100% of our traffic online and will be happy to show our dealers exactly where the lead is coming from. I brand my dealers 100%, no hidden agenda. I need them to be successful and sell cars, because I get paid for SALES. Again, with my program the dealer only pays if they sell a car to my referral. We are tied to the dealers success everyday all day. If I want a raise it is there for me, I just have to send the dealer more SALES. We have just eclipsed 170 dealers and are growing everyday and have had our bumps along the way. I know it's hard to believe but there are numerous dealers who don't call or email leads. That is tough, when I'm putting my money where my mouth is. I front the advertising money to generate the traffic to grow their business and they let the leads hit the floor. I want long term partnerships with my dealers. I care about growing their business and sending them SALES. So in closing I ask anyone or everyone to respond, Is there a place for me in the industry?

Mitch, in response to your post:

“P.S.: Come talk to me in five years when all the dealers are doing as you've suggested, and the CPC to get in the top 3 for a term like "Pleasantville Honda Dealer" is $6.50 because there are 15 dealers competing on that query. If every dealer ran dedicated PPC campaigns, it would be anarchy. Your industry is in a very convenient spot right now.”

A positive thing about the pay per click model is that the value of a customer acquisition/conversion helps keep click costs in check because most companies who are bidding on the same terms have a similar value of a new customer/conversion. If every dealership was bidding an exhaustive amount per click then none of the dealerships would continue running PPC anyway because of the diminishing ROI. However, Google also has something called a quality score which helps keep click costs in check based on how relevant the search term is & content on the landing page. If 15 dealerships are bidding on the same term each dealership may be prompted to bid a different amount as a minimum bid based on how relevant the search term is to the content of the ad copy and most importantly the content of the webpage the traffic is being driven to.

I don’t see an issue w/ the search engines becoming over saturated w/ ads because of the measures that are already in place w/ relevancy.

Unfortunately, lead generators can still provide more leads at a very fair price than SEM campaigns run by the dealership or an agency. This trend like many within the automotive internet space will evolve, but it will take some time. If you're a dealer that wants/needs supplemental leads, you owe it to yourself to take a good look at lead generators. The one I'm most familiar with won't even charge you unless the lead is completely legit (valid contact method and actually in market for a vehicle).

Any company can claim results. I'm not hear claiming i'm the best or that I got any dealer 801 phone calls for $5,000 and calling each of those phone calls a lead. Meaningful case studies are backed by a name. I deal with over 100 dealers at an NY based advertising agency. Ive seen some reachlocal clients do well, ive seen others do horrendously (just like any other advertising program, no advertising works 100% of the time for anyone) but ive never seen ridiculously high results as are claimed in this case study.

Provide 1 name of a dealer that got results even close to as high as this case study.

I know because I see it all the time.
For you to say that ReachLocals posted case studies are likely fictitious is a bit of a slanderous stretch, don't you think? I do.
Do you honestly think that the dealer in that case study would like to be identified so his competitors find out what their doing, then have the likes of you calling them on the phone to verify?
Get real.
I'm calling you out?..please, enough drama already..give it a break.
I would gladly wave my fees and run a $5000 campaign for any dealer out there who wants to see the highest returns possible from a paid search campaign. Then, since your the "Real SEM Vendor" you beat my results... theres a call out for you Brandon, AKA Brad, AKA xBMANx AKA????? Put your money where your mouth is.

"Those results are from a real dealer, and a real campaign."

How do you know? YOU didn't conduct the campaign!

Rob, I am calling you out, name this dealer so we can verify these results!

Brandon, or should I call you Brad?

You can call me a reseller, a vendor, an agency, call me anything but a lier. Those results are from a real dealer, and a real campaign.

Speaking of fictitious, I have copied and pasted an inquiry that came in from my website concerning this thread.

Is it just me or are there some similarities between this inquiry and Brandon's post above?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Email: bman46@g____.com

Name: Brad Kowal

Phone: **********

Comments: Rob, i saw your post about a dealers campaign you ran that
generated 801 phone calls for $5000. I work for a dealer and would
like to see some proof of this as we would be interested in
advertising with you. Are many of these calls to sales & service?
Please send case study via email.. Thanks
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankfully all the other inquires I received from this debate had phone numbers and email addresses that identified where they worked.
But I humored "Brad Kowal" anyway by responding professionally.

Yes ReachLocal is an SEM vendor but you are not. Those case studies you are pointing at are reachlocals case studies. Give us the dealer name (which you can't because its probably fictitious) and I will call to confirm these results with them.

xBMANx

Brandon,
Proof of my stated results are available on my website.
Click on the orange link labeled Case Studies where it says "see actual campaign results here:" or on the lower left of the home page where it says Activity Reports. There you will find the all the campaign activity for the $5,000 campaign that generated 801 phone calls, along with a couple others not dealer related.
The keyword portfolio used for this campaign was focused on new and used vehicles, not parts or service. There still may be a small number of calls for parts or service. Even if only half of them were for sales, your still looking at a cost per lead lower than the $16-$21 Mitch mentioned he's paying.
Would you consider ReachLocal a SEM vendor? Just curious.

Mitch,

Very impressed with your dealer blog. Good work.

xBMANx

Rob,

I don't want to make this post negative but firstly your not an SEM vendor. All your doing is reselling reach local's product (your website proudly proclaims it at the bottom) and all of your collateral is linking to their website. Now that we got that out of the way I:

1) Highly doubt 801 phone calls were generated for $5,000. I am an ACTUAL SEM vendor and professional in the business and have never seen these types of results.

2) Suspending my disbelief, lets say Reach Local (Notice I didn't say you) did provide those type of results, how many of the phone calls were for parts and service compared to new or used car leads. I bet a good deal of the phone calls were for parts & service and if thats the case you arent even comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges when you quote a cost per lead of $6.24.

Please respond with proof of your stated results and answers to my questions.

Thanks

xBMANx

P.S.: Come talk to me in five years when all the dealers are doing as you've suggested, and the CPC to get in the top 3 for a term like "Pleasantville Honda Dealer" is $6.50 because there are 15 dealers competing on that query. If every dealer ran dedicated PPC campaigns, it would be anarchy. Your industry is in a very convenient spot right now.