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Jun 4, 2008

One of the points most of us seem to agree on here is that direct mail does work, but it depends on what you're sending. That basically puts it in line with most advertising scenarios: the people are there, you just have to get their attention. But i think it's important to keep in mind that first part - the people ARE there. This is unlike newspapers, where no matter what your message is, the people are no longer there (at least, relative to the expense of it), which is why it is becoming an advertising failure.

Remember also that everyone's store and everyone's geo are different; I say that all the time but it's necessary to keep in mind. Jeff can probably attest to the fact that Benz customers will line up 30 deep for something as stupid as a "free mug" promotion, ironically getting you better results than if you tried it at a domestic dealer, since Benz customers are more likely to have flexible work schedules or not have a job at all (trophy wives) and thus have the time on their hands to swing down to your store for the offer. Maybe selling cars over direct mail doesn't work for your area... maybe Service mailers are effective with your customer base because they already love your Service department... but you won't usually get these answers listening to dealers who operate across the country from you. Trial and error is half the fun of marketing after all... don't you think?

Alex Jefferson · Jun 4, 2008

Alex, you raise a very interesting question and I'm with you. But like Mitch said, "remember that we're still young punks in this world". Sometimes this makes it a little tougher to be objective. However, when I think back over the last 2 years there may have been 1 out of a gazzillion pieces of mail that got my attention enough to even consider the offer. The other question is how do we know how effective our CRM's are at getting through spam filters? Are there CRM's tools out there that know when we get through? If so, I would like to hear about it. Also, one company approached me about reverse electronic lead generation where if you have a phone number and address they can get a "valid" email 30% of the time. 10,000 clients means 3,000 emails not bad if that's true and I can find their information.

Jun 3, 2008

I don't think I'd ever suggest a snail mail campaign to sell a vehicle, parts or service.

However, I would strongly recommend it to build and/or strengthen a relationship.

A client of mine mentioned he enjoyed reading to his young daughter at bedtime. So, I took a page from Jeffery Gitomer and sent my client a children's book & had the author personally sign it for them.

Mail something personal and unexpected to a customer & you'll never lose them...

Hand-written thank you notes and birthday cards are always a nice touch too - but at least make sure you include their name...otherwise it just comes off phony.

andwrig · Jun 3, 2008

We are beginning to limit snail mail to customers without email addresses. As for sales campaigns, why is a 2% return acceptable for snail mail but email campaigns and newsletters costing a fraction of snail mail generate higher returns. I think its a case of holding on to old habits. Its the same with newspaper advertising. Newspaper advertising still accounts for a large portion of dealer advertising even though circulations and readership levels are plummeting. And the newspapers have the audacity to raise their rates! The post office has the same problem with postage increases. I'm with you Alex. I think snail mail is a waste. I read Godin's post the other day and I couldn't agree more.

Jun 3, 2008

If you consider only 2-3% of the population is actively in the market to purchase a vehicle in a given month, a 2 - 3% response rate for an untargetted mailer is about right.

If you target people who have driven the same veh for 4-5 years, I'm certain the response will be higher. Fortunately, the best source to find this kind of data is in our own databases.

esietsma · Jun 3, 2008

Hey Alex,

We just redid our daily run for our CRM, which is essentially the same thing and I wiped out all printed letters for customers with an email address. The only people who will get letters are those with no email and since our email capture is between 70-80% depending on the dealership, that is less than 30% of the customers. And once they are sold, this percentage drops drastically.

What I know from my own experience is I only check my mail once every few days, at which point, I have a packed full box of pennysavers, valupaks, catalogs from hammacher schlemmer (you buy something once and they hound you for life) and the list goes on.

I sort the mail into junk - anything without a handwritten address and most all catalogs/rags and then "important" mail. Important mail DOES include "coupons' that are in the form of the big DM pieces bc they stand out and I can magnet them to fridge until ready to use. If I have to open an envelope - fuggedaboutit.

Jun 3, 2008

Alex, I don't think snail mail is dead, but I think it needs to be treated carefully. By that I mean that the days of blasting out all sorts of canned direct mail pieces are way past gone ... no question that stuff gets the direct heave into the trash. However, well-designed, well-written mail pieces used judiciously can work ... the key is doing this well and being judicious. If, for example, a dealership is having a special event, a nicely-done snail mail invitation can have an impact. What we're seeing, really, is that snail mail needs to be as personalized as e-mail ... we all know that what's making e-mail contact so successful is that it can be so targeted to the individual. The same approach needs to be taken with snail mail. The challenge is that it's all too easy to not put time and thought into this stuff and to throw a bunch of non-personalized standard-looking mailers out into an indifferent universe. And the result is ... indifference.

Jun 3, 2008

I believe snail mail can still be effective if its tied in with an Internet strategy.

I base this belief on the mere fact that people still pay attention to their mailboxes. As long as they are receiving bills, Amazon stuff, etc. in their mailboxes, they'll keep paying attention to it. Since people's attention is becoming a scarce resource, I need to be everywhere where I know they pay attention. A well-crafted multi-channel snail mail/website/email campaign can still generate a good response.

I suppose when the US Postal Service goes out of business, then snail mail will be dead.

Jun 3, 2008

Alex, I'm on board with you about the mailbox being a total waste of time... but remember that we're still young punks in this world. Lots of people use snail mail as a means of conducting their daily lives. Suckers.

Direct mail still has presence, still has value... and while it's produced in a similar format to newspapers, the reason this industry is so gung-ho about escaping the papers is the astronomical expense and the lack of a guarantee that your message is even reaching anyone. Mail's expense is a lot more realistic, and I'd entertain the argument that 75 cents for something in your hand (which has to at least be looked at once before you throw it away) can hang with 0 cents for something digital that might not even make it to someone's inbox.

Of course, we will get there at some point, because having something on paper is just plain stupid when the alternative is a virtual document with near-zero materials expense, infinite color and size options, and unprecedented targeting and reporting capabilities.

What's holding the world back from moving to all-digital are the consumers who have yet to see the benefits of it, and the product pushers who refuse to move on for any number of reasons. Fortunately for the planet, those people will eventually come on-board or become marginalized... but for now, those consumers are potential sales.

Alex Snyder · Jun 3, 2008

I'm converting our entire dealer group to a new CRM, so I've been working a lot. Couple that with my other responsibilities and I'm typically getting home around midnight. At that time the last thing I think about doing is getting my snail mail because it is now more of a chore than an incentive. It seems my mailbox has a tendency to become over-filled with credit card offers, introductions to new real estate agents, coupons for my grocery store, big catalogs for furniture and clothes I'll never buy. I'd say over 95% of my mail is junk. The other 5% is nothing but bills that I pay online anyway, so basically everything in my mailbox is trash. I need to start carrying the garbage can out to the mailbox with me to just scoop it right where it is all going to end up.

Also, with a new CRM comes opportunity for new mail pieces. I am obviously not a fan of snail mail. Maybe it is me, maybe it is the younger generation I'm a part of, maybe I think trees are a good thing....whatever. I also don't subscribe to the newspaper (is that a sin in this industry?) - click here to read what Seth Godin has to say about that. I'm in a little bit of a debate with the older generation about how many letters we should be sending through our new CRM. I agree with sending a few to people who have purchased vehicles from us and something on a birthday or anniversary, but to contribute to the regular 95% junk pile is something I am not in favor of. I also want to keep in touch with our customers who prefer the traditional communication methods they're used to.

My real question is: is snail mail dead? If an expected return on a mail campaign is 1-3%, does that mean you're annoying 97% of the people who receive that expensive piece of mail? As the cost of mail, and paper, continues to climb where does the cost out-weigh the value?

Dec 8, 2008

Jeff,

I have used Homenet before and was very impressd. At my last store used dealer specialties with Homenet and it worked well. We later switched to Auction123 and they worked great with Homenet. I believe that Auction123 does a better job taking inventory photos then Dealerspecialties. However, I think it all depends on the person that takes your picture and how detailed they are. Anyone can take a picture but the importance is quality of the picture. There are other companies like vauto which I am starting to see come around.

My compliment to Auction123 is that they have one of the best support staff team members that I have ever worked with and the same goes for Homenet.

I do agree with Jeff that you need to consider what your plan is when it comes to releasing inventory.

jlfechner · Dec 8, 2008

I have been toying with the idea of checking into Homenet, instead of using Diamond lot, does anyone have any first hand experience, or pro's or cons?
Thanks
J

Rob Ernst · Dec 6, 2008

Robin,

Are you using homenet to push your photos? Who takes them? You or do you use a college or high school punk? I considering dumping Dealer Specialties. Not that they don't do a good job, its just too expensive and they're not consistent. I think I could do better with more control.

What software do you use for comments?

What do you show on the gas cap on HUGE SUV's? "Poor Gas Mileage" or "Wow, look how much it takes to fill me up" ???

Thanks!

Jun 24, 2008

@Wei
would you be talking about a fee such as what ebay charges when you list a individual car for sale? If so no it is based more off how many cars you generally have in stock and what type franchise you have.....sites such as autotrader charge more for premium placement sorta like a newspaper ad.

Wei Yang · Jun 24, 2008

Another question I'd like to throw out there since I'm unfamiliar with the ATC and Cars platform. Are there costs associate with those sites that are directly related to the number of times you publish new/used cars?

The reason I ask is because we accept feeds and feed updates w/o any costs to the dealer so I'm wondering if the posed question is still a concern when individual pushes are no longer taxed.

Wei Yang · Jun 24, 2008

As a 3rd party site owner, (EasyAutoSales.com) I can say that we assume data from the management systems are right until a dealer calls in with problems. Many times, it can be attributed to some piece of data not updating when it reaches us.

I know in one particular case a dealer had switched their inventory management company but their old feed provider was still sending us the last snapshot of the vehicles from the dealer and that caused some problems.

On the other hand, I have also seen dealers not filling out their website and email fields in their management systems accurately and leads for the cars from those dealerships are probably lost on the web somewhere.

BTW, EasyAutoSales.com is accepting feeds from all dealerships for free for any of you that are interested. I know a number of dealers here are already on the system through Dealer Specialties, Diamondlot and a couple of others. If you're with eBiz, just request them to add you to our website - everything is already setup.

- Wei

Jun 23, 2008

Great question. I thought I was the only one who struggles with this. I had a customer Sat. that had to see a van we listed as it came in, Once they got there and saw some minor stains on the seats and dirt around the console, it burned into their brains, and it was all over. With out a doubt, you only get one 1st impression.

Jun 14, 2008

Lightnup - we have some work to do on photos.....and I also have some work to do on Pivec about where they decide to put our Toyota inventory.

The account reps we've had for AutoTrader.com have been decent lately. Our last one received a well deserved promotion - he really did work hard for us. The two new ones we have are coming in when we feel like we wasted a lot of money on another trial with ATC and we're bitter. We have tried ATC numerous times for long lengths of time ever since ATC came into existence. What you're seeing right now, is our inventory being placed on ATC for free and I'm not paying full attention to it. My concentration is in other areas that are giving us incredible ROI and increase. I don't have time for the non-performers.

Despite how it may look on Dealer Refresh, I have always left the check book open for ATC in case they make some changes that cater better to our market place and Checkered Flag. I don't know exactly what those changes are, but I'm ready to be a customer again when they do happen. In the meantime, I will continue being the nail in your boot until you guys make those changes. I don't gripe because I want to see ATC die - I gripe because I want to see ATC become something we can use. I wouldn't gripe if I didn't care.

Jun 13, 2008

...and I agree completely with Jerome. Dealers using a 3rd party inventory vendor should absolutely use that company's interface for inventory uploads and updates, not ATC's.

Jun 13, 2008

Brian - and did they find the source of the problem and correct it? And if so, what caused the problem?

Alex - Not sure how one can say "I don't believe it" without sounding rude, but let's just say that I'm skeptical that for years your cars weren't coming off in a timely manner, it was always ATC's fault and no one could ever get it fixed. Are you perhaps lumping the AutoTrader magazine folks in with AutoTrader.com? We're different companies. They send a basic 1-photo listing to ATC for every car you put in the magazine and are notorious for not removing them from their subsequent feeds. I have a dealer with multiple instances of 4 and 5 listings of the exact same car. One is always the correct listing with VIN from the dealer's 3rd party vendor that gets removed when the car sells, the other ones are always from the magazine feed but they have no VIN so it's impossible for an automated system to ferret out duplicates. I only mention it because I see where you turned your magazine feed off. Did that resolve your problem? If not, you have a rep with a manager and a dealer concierge with a manager. I'd be all over them until the root of the problem was found. I still have trouble believing that it has been strictly an ATC problem that couldn't be fixed "for years." Technology isn't perfect, problems occur and ATC makes mistakes, but the accusation of intentionally failing to remove vehicles so the inventory would be larger is what I took exception to.

Alex, how come less than half your Toyota inventory listed on ATC have photos? Shoppers will scroll right by the ones that don't have pictures to find the ones that do. (Let me guess, it's ATC's fault.)

Jun 12, 2008

I help over 150 stores in Southern CA distribute their inventory to 3rd party destinations.... In my experience, it's a waste of time to use 3rd party advertising sites' tools to manage inventory. You are duplicating efforts without increasing results .... you should be using ONE system that pushes inventory updates to ALL destinations.

When you use programs such as "AdManager" or Cars.com's tool to manage your listings, you 'lock' the inventory and can freeze specific vehicles, thereby preventing price updates or automated removal from CDMData/HomeNet/eBiz/DealerFusion or whichever vendor you're using to manage inventory marketing. Keeping inventory consistent across ALL destinations should be your main priority.

Jun 11, 2008

following up on inventory issue with at.c:
I spoke with a dealer concierge today and they informed me my inventory was bouncing to another dealers inventory??? I gave them several examples with vin's.
Thanks for the advice Lightnup!

Jun 7, 2008

Lightnup - I've been providing my reps with that for years. It is always ATC, and never anyone else. I don't have this issue on Cars.com, I don't have this issue with my local newspaper's website, I don't have this issue with our website, I don't have this issue with any of our inventory companies either....in fact, they help me research the ATC problems too and find ATC to be at fault everytime.

Jun 7, 2008

damm... Lightnup spoiled the grassy knoll tread just when it was getting good.

Lightnup, "fuzzy logic" or not, you carry the burden of proof. This topic would make good ATC Newsletter back page content, possibly a side bar.

Joe

@lightnup · Jun 7, 2008

@lightnup
who can I check with besides my rep and dealer concierge?
I am only having the issue with a few cars (they happen to be in my top ten) and I checked if they were capped in the system correctly. I also made sure that I had not touched it within the atc control panel.
I would also like some feedback or suggestions on placing inventory with atc. Not bashing just trying to get some answers. What happens to above theory if I spell it at.c? Would the . count as a letter? So now we have to look for four letter words? hmmmmmm......

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