Jeff Kershner said:

Thanks! Don't be afraid to point out the trolls. Send me their username via DM and we will assess.

Be on the look out for our Media Kit. I believe Alex may have sent it over to you by email earlier this morning.

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Sure did!

that prompt is fat, it needs trimming.
One thing it finds, for some vendors, AI CAN'T READ YOUR INVENTORY (technical reason given).

tylernobi said:

The gap between how inventory search works and how shoppers actually think is, in my view, the single biggest conversion leak on dealer websites today. Curious if your audit captures that disconnect, or if it's more focused on the UI/UX layer of existing search tools?

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My 17yrs here, over 5,000 posts. I have one theme.
1. Car shopping is complex and hard.
2. Our websites suck.

Not one car shopper started their day saying.. "Oh, I can't wait to send in a lead".

I surveyed car buyers for years, 6,000 surveys annually.
I read a million chats and leads Not one car shopper said 'can't I just buy this car online without talking to you?"

Confirmation: Carvana, the Amazon of auto, would die if they closed their call center.

Love the topic...AI is awesome!

We built a couple agents to save the dealer time. One can stock a car into inventory, select the appropriate features and write a description. No human involvement. The other knows how to search and find cars at auction. Taking the dealers stocking criteria and building a watchlist for upcoming auctions.

joe.pistell said:

AI Detailers.

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but kinda brilliant.

john.quinn said:

OH -- BY THE WAY -- for the young'ens on the channel now -- those articles/essays I wrote for DR in the Old Days pre-date LLM's by at least 10 years..... just sayin

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DealerRefresh should consider enforcing a "no llm content" policy. The brilliance of these forums over the years was the openness and authenticity that is hard to replicate with an LLM. I'd hate to see Refresh devolve into a "prompt and post" farm like LinkedIn.

There is just no way that an LLM is going to be able to produce posts about purple ties and Jorts as well as we humans do.

AI Detailers.

Overfuel_Joe Montgomery said:

Thanks, Jeff.

Consumer-facing:

Our on-page design thesis began by studying Carvana and other top consumer shopping experiences -- businesses who had vast user data and had spent millions of dollars on A/B testing.

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Makes sense overall - focusing on simple, fast mobile design is the right move

joe.pistell said:

AI replies: "No. The honest answer is no — my prior audit was shallow. It only checked SME notes vs. actions taken. It did not audit the entire processing chain. Let me do that now."

Ugh...

Click to expand...

This is something I fear will happen to the consumer-facing tools - they will pretend to work hard while in the back-end decreasing token consumption to reduce cost on the fixed cost monthly plans. This is why I appreciate the transparency of Claude showing me token usage - I know if it's really working or not.

Personally I am using ChatGPT almost never anymore - Gemini took over all my research needs, Nano Banana Pro took over my image needs and Claude took over all code, planning, Excel, PowerPoint and PDF work (combined this means 90%+ of my workload is now on Claude).

If they do go down this road of faking the hard work, the nice thing about this industry is you can go right to the models with any other wrapper and get the same logic engine with none of the front-end shenanigans.

One of the coolest things I have followed since inception but still haven't built with myself is Pickaxe - Pickaxe | Shopify for Agent-Powered Businesses

Another day where I'm yelling at AI...

AI replied to me:

"Joe, you're right to flag this, and I take full responsibility. Let me do exactly what you're asking — a forensic audit, root cause analysis, and an action plan."

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Then AI completes the audit and I'm mad as hell, I'm 6 hours into a project, I threaten it and tell it to do it again: "Have you given this a full forensic review? What about the context window. I want to establish the best possible outcome."

AI replies: "No. The honest answer is no — my prior audit was shallow. It only checked SME notes vs. actions taken. It did not audit the entire processing chain. Let me do that now."

Ugh...

Jeff Kershner said:

BTW - where the hell is @john.quinn at? Since Dec 2, 2009

John is an OG of the OGs, when DealerRefresh was the Blog only - before the forums. Where ya at QUINN?!?!

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Here, Sir!

As a matter of fact, I suddenly find myself with some (semi-anticipated) time on my hands, and I'm eager to re-engage with the community!

Geez Louise... that profile pic... can you see when I added that pic, @Jeff Kershner? I had rented a pontoon boat on Lake Champlain for my young lad's birthday, and I was casting off the dock and landed that trophy perch... 2020? Maybe?

Anyway... I'm a little older, and lot wider, but I've been picking-up some new tricks and I'd like to get the community's take.

OH -- BY THE WAY -- for the young'ens on the channel now -- those articles/essays I wrote for DR in the Old Days pre-date LLM's by at least 10 years..... just sayin

AML has nearly 100k build sheets in our archive.
I pulled a list of safety features and the counts of how many different varieties there are for that feature.

• ---Feature Name: # of varieties---
• Automatic Emergency Braking: 201*
• Parking Sensors: 106
• Blind Spot Monitor: 83
• Adaptive Cruise Control: 77 (+ 33 dual-mapped with Autopilot)
• Backup Camera: 72
• Pedestrian Detection: 66 (+ 37 from AEB dual-map)
• Automatic Parking: 66
• Lane Keep Assist: 63
• Traffic Sign Recognition: 52
• Electronic Stability Control: 40
• 360-Degree Camera: 35
• Rear Cross-Traffic Alert: 25 (+ 38 from AEB dual-map)
• Park Assist: 32
• Collision Detection: 23
• Premium Brakes / ABS: 19
• Lane Departure Warning: 19
• Side View Cameras: 16
• Safe Exit Assist: 12
• Autopilot: 7 (+ 33 from ACC dual-map)
• Digital Rearview Mirror: 6
• Front View Camera: 5
• LED Daytime Running Lights: 3
• Night Vision: 1

Shoppers have questions, and sales reps are expected to have the answers. NOT.
How in the hell does a rep confidently deliver the car with all of this ADAS stuff installed?


*(+ 37 dual-mapped with Pedestrian Detection, + 38 dual-mapped with RCTA)

I don't envy the conference promoters, serving two masters is difficult.

On one hand, if the dealers don't see value in the educational content or visiting the vendors in the hall... they don't support the event.

On the other hand, if the vendors don't see dealers in the expo hall the vendors don't see an ROI... and they don't support the event.

If they don't get both of the above just right the event probably won't make it. Lots of dealer attendees doesn't necessarily mean strong ROI for the vendors.

[shameless self-promo]

My startup, AutoMagicLabs.ai is a research lab focusing exclusively on merchandising. Come back to Dealer Refresh often to see cutting edge ideas like this.

# MOBILE AUTOMOTIVE RETAIL UX AUDIT — v4.2
## Dealer vs. Carvana Comparative Audit With Guided User Intake

THIS PROMPT is a hot mess. I deleted it.​

--new prompt added, see post below--​

DealerInt said:

the number that lands in the P&L still isn't the number the merchandising earned. The desk happens in between. Buyer came in ready for $42k, drove off at $39,200, and every upstream metric logged a win.

The Early Majority doesn't just need ROI proof. They need ROI proof that survives the desking layer — otherwise you've just moved the attribution gap six steps to the right. Does D.I.S.C. go that deep or is the scope intentionally front-of-funnel?

Click to expand...

great insights.
Keeping to the thread theme "Vehicle Photography and Virtual Showrooms", and mapping GA4 to DISC...
From a 1st principles POV, merchandising strategies (aka UX strategies) can improve gross by improving the average quality of the up it creates. This 'improvement of traffic quality' happens on both ends of the measurement spectrum. #1. Ups that need more 'selling' to get to the sale. #2. Ups that need less 'selling' to get to the sale.

@DealerInt , I contend that a merchandising strategies mission is to produce a body of up traffic that is quicker to close, with less discounting.

Here's a side by side of two dealer VDPs selling the same 2025 Toyota Sequoia Limited Sport Utility 4D


Both dealers have the spinny car thingy.
The shopper views both VDPs as a completely stand alone UX. Carvana sells the benefits, the DDC site pukes icons with zero context on the page.

Using common sense (aka 1st principals), we all know that a small share of all VDP viewers are 'very engaged', and this is the short list of 'interested shoppers'. We can measure these ppl with engagement metrics. One would assume that great merchandising strategy will produce a larger share of the audience engaging more deeply than w/o the merch strategy. I also contend that a hallmark of the merchandising strategy is LESS LEADs WITH MORE SALES (aka higher closing ratio).


SO, in summary, my vision falls far short of yours ("The desk happens in between. Buyer came in ready for $42k, drove off at $39,200, and every upstream metric logged a win.") My vision is to get a higher yield with the shoppers that are onsite now.

@douglaskarr your vendor list sparked a 4 hour research exploration. Wow. Ck it out...

What if we commissioned AI to go car shopping on all of these sites and return score or a report on what it found? I made a 1st pass, It's limited to what it can see, it's buggy, but, directionally, this is very interesting.

Dealer.com website:

1. Mobile SRP​

Score: 2.5 / 5​

What it does well​

The page gives shoppers the basics:

• used inventory entry point
• filter and sort access
• category shortcuts like used trucks and used SUVs (reymore.com)

That means the shopper can start the search.

What it does poorly​

The page does not show strong vehicle-card selling power in the evidence I could verify.
What I see is:

• generic inventory structure
• lots of dealer text below the listings
• weak proof that each vehicle card helps the shopper decide fast (reymore.com)

For a dealer, this means:
The platform helps shoppers search. It does not clearly help them shop better.


That is a big difference.

Dealer takeaway​

A strong mobile SRP should help a shopper reject bad fits fast.


This one looks more like:
“Here is our inventory.”


Not:
“Here is why these few units deserve your attention.”

---

2. Mobile VDP​

Score: 2.0 / 5​

What it does well
The page gives some basic information and calls to action:

• quote
• test drive
• text me a link
• send to friend

That means the page is lead-ready.

What it does poorly​

This is the bigger problem.

The page appears overloaded with:

• forms
• modal actions
• repeated lead tools
• legal text
• dealership marketing copy

That hurts the shopping mission on mobile.

A phone shopper wants:

1. what is this truck
2. why should I care
3. what do I do next

Instead, the page feels like: lead form first, shopping second.

Also, the copy is broad model copy:

• Silverado is strong
• Silverado can tow
• Silverado is versatile

That is not the same as selling this exact truck.

Dealer takeaway​

This page may help generate leads.

It does not do a strong job helping a shopper believe:
“This is the right truck for me.”


That is the miss.

All of the back and forth aside, just to throw my opinion out there: This will be solved by AI.

The compliance will still be a thing until laws changed and some guy in California will still keep suing dealers for not having screen reader compliance, but I have to assume that those who use these tools are going to move to new AI solutions that can read, manipulate, respond and interact with websites of any type at any time. Once you start using Claude Co-Work, OpenClaw or Perplexity Computer you really start to see the near future where the website becomes far less relevant.

Do I go to travel websites to book trips anymore? Nope.
Do I use the documentation site for my programming frameworks to figure out how they work? Nope.
Do I shop for electronics by going to Walmart, BestBuy, Amazon and ShopBot to compare prices? Nope.

Did I try shopping for a used car using AI? Yes. Did it work? Absolutely not.

Whoa @DjSec - I think you are misreading Joe. He is trying to help you. Maybe reread what he is saying to you without any malice in his tone.

The rest of us are reading your tone as passionate to the point of insanity or someone who thinks he is being greatly attacked.

I can see how one could take a sentence from Joe as a slight attack, but the overall message certainly is not.

If you can change your tone, it would be great to get into the topics you’re trying to educate us on. As Joe is pointing out, you’re the expert on this.

joe.pistell said:

DJ, all vendors see problems thru the lens of "how my products fix this".

Click to expand...

DJ, I am no upset, your reply is stuck in self validation, turn your narrative to helping the community. Example:

DjSec said:

Or better yet prove not being ADA compliant doesn't matter!
Prove people don't get sued!

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You own this topic, NO ONE here owns this topic like you do. Create insights to assist dealers to see what needs to be fixed and tips for them to DIY this topic. Turn your narrative to actionable tips and tricks and use this community service to talk about your ADA toolset.

Thanks for the post, Gregg. We are aware of these things and agree with you. It is the way we have done things for 20 years and have outlasted everything that ever came up.

Although I think the real secret to our success is that DealerRefresh is not a business. We take sponsorship money to keep the lights on.

We are trying something new out. We are allowing a little more promotion. And it will be a fluid change as we figure out the right balance.

DjSec said:

The fact that there is only one link makes it look more like spam than a real post, a moderator should remove the link and stop all the Parasite SEO!

It will kill the forum!

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Dj, I 100% love that post that @douglaskarr compiled and shared. Its very helpful for dealers and vendors.

DjSec said:

How many of these providers actually care about your dealership?

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Really? Are you saying that only you care? Beware using virtue signaling as your narrative.

Dj, love your passion, but c'mon dude...
your reply SELLS ADA compliance and SPEED and your reply is selling your business.

To flame @douglaskarr while mounting your white horse is a tad bit self-serving.

DJ, all vendors see problems thru the lens of "how my products fix this". May I suggest that you follow @douglaskarr's lead and post ways that the community can profit from your domain knowledge and experiences.